Shigeru Miyamoto views games as products, not art

MB202

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I just saw someone mention this article:

http://gamez.itmedia.co.jp/games/articles/0910/27/news082_3.html

Since it's in Japanese I can't tell for sure, but the guy who brought it up pointed out one quote from the article:

Shigeru Miyamoto said:
"What we have created are not an art but products. For us, the most important are the customers and not games themselves. I always tell staff to call Nintendo games products, not an art."
Anyone who can read Japanese want to double-check?
 

Tdc2182

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I'm inclined to agree with him.

People are taking this art thing art of proportion. They are trying to use it as an excuse to justify their gaming habits. And if they are trying to find a way to justify their gaming, they need to stop spending so much time gaming.
 

Kahunaburger

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Well, games are all art by definition. And anything sold is a product by definition. So it seems like semantics to me haha.
 

CrystalShadow

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Eh. Well sure. But that in the end seems a question of intent.

The creators of "the path" go on about it being some kind of art, and maybe it is.

I guess the difference is one is created to be sold, and if it's art is a secondary concern, while the other is created to be art, and whether it sells well is secondary.


You could probably say the same thing about renaissance artists.
Being asked by a wealthy patron to create a portrait for them is quite different from creating a work of art for your own reasons.

In the end both require just as much skill to do well, but the purpose is quite different.
 

starwarsgeek

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Tdc2182 said:
I'm inclined to agree with him.

People are taking this art thing art of proportion. They are trying to use it as an excuse to justify their gaming habits. And if they are trying to find a way to justify their gaming, they need to stop spending so much time gaming.
What you say is true. My stance opinion on the matter is "Yes, they are art. No, being art is not a big deal...lots of things are art." However, I think for most of us it's about gaming being legitimized, not justified. We're all tired of gaming being the media scapegoat.

While I disagree about the "not art" part of Mr. Miyamoto's statement, I can see why he wants to focus on making a good product instead of some potentially pretentious "work of art!". CrystalShadow summed it up pretty well.

CrystalShadow said:
Eh. Well sure. But that in the end seems a question of intent.

The creators of "the path" go on about it being some kind of art, and maybe it is.

I guess the difference is one is created to be sold, and if it's art is a secondary concern, while the other is created to be art, and whether it sells well is secondary.


You could probably say the same thing about renaissance artists.
Being asked by a wealthy patron to create a portrait for them is quite different from creating a work of art for your own reasons.

In the end both require just as much skill to do well, but the purpose is quite different.
 

Thaius

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I seem to remember him saying something very different in the past, but I can't remember exactly when or where I would find a source. Coming from him though, that is rather surprising when taken at face value.

However, I think what he's saying is simply that the focus must be on the person who will play the game, not the artistic merit of the game itself. That they are not out to make a work of art, they are out to make a product that everyone will enjoy. I think it's semantics and splitting hairs in a negative way, but I'm not sure the statement is about games being "not art" as much as it is that Nintendo focuses on the player experience above all else.
 

KeyMaster45

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Sometimes art and product go hand in hand when it comes to the entertainment industry. Look at The Dark Knight for example. A fine example of film as an art form that also made a crap load of money at the box office. By referring to games as a product appeases the investors as product translates to potential money in their eyes where art usually means niche appeal that won't make alot of money.

So yeah, I kinda have to agree with Miyamoto on this.
 

Krantos

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I see nothing wrong here.

Yes, games can be art. They don't need to be art.

If Nintendo wants to do it that way, that's their business.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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That seems like a very characteristically Japanese thing to say.
 

Aurgelmir

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MB202 said:
I just saw someone mention this article:

http://gamez.itmedia.co.jp/games/articles/0910/27/news082_3.html

Since it's in Japanese I can't tell for sure, but the guy who brought it up pointed out one quote from the article:

Shigeru Miyamoto said:
"What we have created are not an art but products. For us, the most important are the customers and not games themselves. I always tell staff to call Nintendo games products, not an art."
Anyone who can read Japanese want to double-check?
As a person with a degree in product development I can agree with what he is saying, because I can apply a lot of my theories onto games.

That is not to say games can't be art, but as I always say in these dabates: Most games ARE NOT art! And most mainstream games will never be art, no more than Green Lantern and Hangover 2 are art.
 

SammiYin

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Tdc2182 said:
I'm inclined to agree with him.

People are taking this art thing art of proportion. They are trying to use it as an excuse to justify their gaming habits. And if they are trying to find a way to justify their gaming, they need to stop spending so much time gaming.
Took the words out of my mouth [figuratively speaking]
I can't wait for us to grow out of this 'games are art man' phase and just get back to enjoying a fun hobby. I don't hear book readers preaching out about how artistically tuned they are, same with film watchers or music listeners. Sure they are all art, but they don't proudly wave their arms around shouting "Look at me! I'm better than you!"

And you know what? I like that the customer is put first. I want games made for me, not games made for the developer. Because they would most likely be shit.
 

thenamelessloser

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SammiYin said:
Tdc2182 said:
I'm inclined to agree with him.

People are taking this art thing art of proportion. They are trying to use it as an excuse to justify their gaming habits. And if they are trying to find a way to justify their gaming, they need to stop spending so much time gaming.
Took the words out of my mouth [figuratively speaking]
I can't wait for us to grow out of this 'games are art man' phase and just get back to enjoying a fun hobby. I don't hear book readers preaching out about how artistically tuned they are, same with film watchers or music listeners. Sure they are all art, but they don't proudly wave their arms around shouting "Look at me! I'm better than you!"

And you know what? I like that the customer is put first. I want games made for me, not games made for the developer. Because they would most likely be shit.
It because film, movies, and books are considered art by most I think. Video games aren't, that is why. You're misrepresenting the whole game is art thing I think . It isn't about being better but more like about being equal or at least potentially equal. At least from what I understand of it... I could be wrong I mostly just skim these topics if I pay any attention.
 

rockyoumonkeys

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Tdc2182 said:
I'm inclined to agree with him.

People are taking this art thing art of proportion. They are trying to use it as an excuse to justify their gaming habits. And if they are trying to find a way to justify their gaming, they need to stop spending so much time gaming.
Pretty much all that. I love gaming as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to delude myself into believing that most of these games are even remotely "artistic". They're glorified toys. They're as much "art" as playing with a tonka truck in your sandbox.
 

Ninjamedic

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Tdc2182 said:
I'm inclined to agree with him.

People are taking this art thing art of proportion. They are trying to use it as an excuse to justify their gaming habits. And if they are trying to find a way to justify their gaming, they need to stop spending so much time gaming.
I agree, while they can be art, I prefer the emphasis on entertainment. Everything else has been said.
 

Tdc2182

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starwarsgeek said:
What you say is true. My stance opinion on the matter is "Yes, they are art. No, being art is not a big deal...lots of things are art." However, I think for most of us it's about gaming being legitimized, not justified. We're all tired of gaming being the media scapegoat.
You have a way with words

That's more or less what I was thinking with the "legitimized" thing, but couldn't really find the word for it.

Makes the situation much more clear.
 

AyreonMaiden

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SammiYin said:
I can't wait for us to grow out of this 'games are art man' phase and just get back to enjoying a fun hobby. I don't hear book readers preaching out about how artistically tuned they are, same with film watchers or music listeners. Sure they are all art, but they don't proudly wave their arms around shouting "Look at me! I'm better than you!"
Oh man, me too. It really is like an adolescent stage, where gamers think everything they do is so serious. Man, I swear the way I've seen a lot of "games as art" people talk whenever anything against gaming comes up, it's no different from some 15 year old screaming "I REALLY LOVE HER, MOM, WE'LL BE TOGETHER FOREVER!" about his first girlfriend. Or "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ME, DAD!" about why he wasn't allowed to go on an unchaperoned trip to Disneyland or something.

Also, book readers, film watchers and movie listeners have grown out of that phase, and their more pretentious twits have shrunk into a little niche. The same thing will happen with gaming if we give it the same amount of time that books/film/music have had.
 

Anaklusmos

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AyreonMaiden said:
SammiYin said:
I can't wait for us to grow out of this 'games are art man' phase and just get back to enjoying a fun hobby. I don't hear book readers preaching out about how artistically tuned they are, same with film watchers or music listeners. Sure they are all art, but they don't proudly wave their arms around shouting "Look at me! I'm better than you!"
Oh man, me too. It really is like an adolescent stage, where gamers think everything they do is so serious. Man, I swear the way I've seen a lot of "games as art" people talk whenever anything against gaming comes up, it's no different from some 15 year old screaming "I REALLY LOVE HER, MOM, WE'LL BE TOGETHER FOREVER!" about his first girlfriend. Or "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ME, DAD!" about why he wasn't allowed to go on an unchaperoned trip to Disneyland or something.

Also, book readers, film watchers and movie listeners have grown out of that phase, and their more pretentious twits have shrunk into a little niche. The same thing will happen with gaming if we give it the same amount of time that books/film/music have had.
It's not that we think everything we do is serious, it's about being equal to other forms of entertainment, at the moment games can be criticized for everything that films and music can get away with, if a film was to depict rape in a way as to get an emotional response out of a reader people would be gushing over how hard hitting that scene was, if a video game was to do the same thing the game would be crucified for depicting rape. It's not about thinking we are superior it's about respect, and to stop the media from using video games as a scapegoat.