Should enemies be able to get head shots?

Korten12

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Aug 26, 2009
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So I have been playing Max Payne 3 and really enjoying it... But at times it can seem really unfair. Despite having pills to heal and come back, an enemy will get a head shot thus killing you instantly. While it makes sense in MP when another player can get a head shot on a player. Imo it seems unfair that AI enemies can get head shots.

Whats your guys and gals opinion on this?
 

tippy2k2

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Note: I have not played Max Payne 3 (yet) so I do not know how MP3 does it.

I think enemies should be able to get head-shots but only under certain circumstances:

1. You're not moving while shooting (IE you stand still too long). It's hard to hit that small a target while you're on the move but if you're standing there soaking up bullets, I see no reason why the enemy wouldn't put one into your head.

2. You keep ducking in and out of cover. A bad guy should be able to figure out that you keep popping in and out of the same spot and your head is always in the same spot when you do this.

*3. Enemies should not be moving to get a head-shot.

*4. Enemy weapons should have the odds of a head-shot based on their weapon (IE handgun < sub machine gun/shotgun < Assault Rifle < Sniper Rifle)

That's about it. I think that random "unlucky" shots to the skull during a firefight shouldn't really exist (unless it's going to realism of course). Realism sometimes needs to back up a step to allow fun to shine through.

*EDIT: dnazeri inspired me to add "enemy rules". The rules I originally had were just "player rules"
 

ComradeJim270

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Nov 24, 2007
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It depends on the game. If the game is trying to be more realistic, then yes, enemies should absolutely be able to get headshots. If you can shrug off all sorts of injuries that should be fatal by popping pills, taking morphine or basically putting a band-aid on it, though, it would be frustratingly out-of-place.
 

darlarosa

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Personally ...I would fucking hate it

Logically I think it should depend on the enemy/enemy type and also the game play of the rest of the game. I doubt that Joe S. Thugenmeyer should be able to shoot someone square in the head, ya know?
 

ComradeJim270

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Anthraxus said:
Why not ? And just because you have other unrealistic elements (like the poster above mentioned) doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get head shots on you, because then you start running the risk of losing all the tension and the game can quickly become a borefest if it's too easy.
That's true, but there are better, less exasperating ways to make a game challenging.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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for hard/insane mode, sure, sounds like a great way to amp up the difficulty, but in all game modes? nahh, i'll pass on that.

it makes sense, but it's hard to implement because with a computer its not so much skill as it is luck/randomly generated, so it just seems...flawed.
 

Chester Rabbit

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Dec 7, 2011
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They had no problem doing so in syphon filter. It sure can piss one off but I say yeah, I'm a fair man. If I can pull it off they should be able to as well.
 

krazykidd

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Only of the enemy is using a sniper rifle WITH laser sights that you can clearly see . Then they can be avoided . If it's from say a handgun , then no it's not "fair". Then again sniper rifles should ALWAYS at least take a good chunk of life when you get hit with it .

Anthraxus said:
Why not ? And just because you have other unrealistic elements (like the poster above mentioned) doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get head shots on you, because then you start running the risk of losing all the tension and the game can quickly become a borefest if it's too easy.
With that logic , enemies should be able to kill you with a sniper rifle without the bullet even touching you ... Realism is not always good .
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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Sep 26, 2009
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There's a difference between "I was standing still for a while/I was walking in an easily predictable line/they spammed the shit out of me and got a lucky hit" and "180 SPIN ON A DIME M1 I WIN ***** BECAUSE I'M A ROBOT".

Some servers in TF2, when there aren't enough players, substitute in bots, and some of the servers have Sniper bots that can spot you from across the map and before you can even move your crosshair you lose 150HP from a snap headshot that can be described as anything but human emulating.
 

FalloutJack

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Mostly, I'm going to go with no, but with an exception. In the Ghost in the Shell playstation game, I had an area with snipers - the kinds of people you HIRE for headshots - guarding an area on towers to prevent the Major from just waltzing on in. They were essentially a sort of puzzle-obstacle to get around in which you get warned by approaching laser targets that going THIS WAY is a bad idea, so let's get you familiar with ghost-hacking to get by.

As a means to get you to be wary and think outside the box, this is fine. As a random computer bullshitty thing, this is terrible, because I realize now what's wrong with games...apart from the usual. The AIs are thickies, so the computer - that's 'god of this game world' - pokes them to make them unrealistic against you and crap FOR you. This is all part of The Computer Is A Cheating Bastard.
 
Nov 28, 2007
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Chester Rabbit said:
They had no problem doing so in syphon filter. It sure can piss one off but I say yeah, I'm a fair man. If I can pull it off they should be able to as well.
I agree, for the most part. But there is a fine line. If the computer is pulling off perfect headshots within a second of you stepping into a room, that's bullcrap.
 

Zaik

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Jul 20, 2009
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It's really hard for me to say.

I'll be using Metro 2033 for this example, but you could substitute Max Payne 3 in and it's similar.

I usually don't have much trouble with the human enemies, pretty much steamrolling it on normal. Though occasionally I'll get in a weird spot, usually where enemies are directly above me, and get dropped in half a second(i guess due to headshots). In most cases there has been a way to get up to their level, but there was on place in particular where you're on the surface about 5 seconds and you run directly into like 20 freaking nazis or whatever they are and they're all over the damn place above you and there's no way up except through them. I spent about two hours on this one spot before giving up and turning it down to easy, then another 30 minutes to actually move on.

It's made extra hilarious because said nazis wear helmets that provide 100% protection against head shots and take like 2-5 shots to knock off. The gas masks they have to wear to survive are a weaker target and ensure they'll die(2-3 shots), but they're very hard to hit and actually have it register on the mask and not helmet.

Tbh it seems to me like going from steamrolling on normal to barely being able to progress on easy, then going right back to steamrolling on normal again would be a design issue(headshots, in this case). Obviously on harder difficulties, you would want to leave it in, but it just seems really weird on easier ones.
 

Shoggoth2588

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Aug 31, 2009
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Yes but only on the highest difficulty setting. I think that would be a great way to make Difficult into HOLY HELL, ARE YOU FREAKING SERIES or whatever they like to call Hardcore Mode/Legendary/etc.
 

Sejs Cube

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Jun 16, 2008
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Only with autofire weapons, where scatter is an issue that could lead to a potential headshot.

The problem is that the computer holds all the cards. It knows exactly where you are, and if it wants to shoot you in the head (and that's part of its programming) then there's nothing you can do to stop it. It can calculate exactly where and when to shoot that will result in you getting a bullet through your thinky bits. Neither fair, nor additive to the fun.

But it would be perfectly acceptable if it's a factor for autofire. If the AI is aiming for the center of mass, and recoil-induced scatter means a round might *randomly* intersect your head, then that's just chance. These things happen, bullets are deadly, no harm no foul.
 

Two-A

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Aug 1, 2012
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Korten12 said:
So I have been playing Max Payne 3 and really enjoying it... But at times it can seem really unfair. Despite having pills to heal and come back, an enemy will get a head shot thus killing you instantly. While it makes sense in MP when another player can get a head shot on a player. Imo it seems unfair that AI enemies can get head shots.

Whats your guys and gals opinion on this?
In what difficulty where you on? I remember beating the game on Normal and I don't remember this happening to me (although their guns really do a lot of damage)

As for the enemy headshot thing, It really depends on the difficulty. If a game has a 'Realistic' difficulty setting then I'd expect it, but not if I'm playing on normal mode