Should immigrants be required to integrate to receive benefits?

[SacremPyrobolum]

I don't think their should be any penalties form not knowing the language as not knowing the language is its own penalty.

Seriously, how can you be expected to do ANYTHING let alone go through the bureaucratic gauntlet if you don't have a basic understanding of what is being said?

 

[Amaror]

I think no fucking way.

Mainly because who decides what the culture is? In America, you really can't because while white people like to believe they are on top, they aren't nearly as prevalent as to think that white culture is American culture. In all of Europe, the Romani people are constantly booted from their homes, spit on, and even burned (in public!) because their culture is not valued in the European continent. They are not the only group of people with no home because of this. Look to the Kurds for another example. And what about in places like Rwanda, where culture was used as a way of singling out people to murder? Entire groups of people, killed relentlessly, based only on their culture. Should we follow that example?

No. We shouldn't. People can live where they want to live.

I am sorry but in what sort of fu**ed up parallel universe Europe have you been, that you can claim there are people burned alive in public.
Or did you confuse "are" with "were"?


On the Topic: Yes. Here in Germany the social welfare is pretty high. People deserve Welfare when they are/were contributing to the society, no matter were they come from. But in order to get welfare you have to at least try to get a job. And learning the national language is a pretty minimum requirement to get a job. If your not even trying to learn the language, then you are not really trying to get a job.
I am talking about integration here, accepting immigrants into the society. And it's supported, too. We have extra schools for immigrants were the children get an extra german class. And the classes to learn german for adults are also free.

Were talking about integrating into a society not being assimilated by a culture.
Were not force - feeding them sausages and beer, i promise!

 

[b.w.irenicus]

I think to a certain degree you should definatly try to integrate. This is not about losing your culture or religion. This is about the basic priciples the society is build on (for example equality of men and women, tolerance for other people's religious beliefs and political views).

If you cannont agree on thoses, than frankly stay the hell away.

 

[rasputin0009]

No. If someone has legally immigrated to your country, that means you invited them in. Since welfare is incredibly cheap for a first world country to implement, you might as well let your new guests sit down at the dinner table with you. Should they have to learn your country's language? No, but it just makes it harder for them. Their children are going to learn the language, and they become ambassadors between their father's original country and their new one.

That's how Canada works and our acceptance of others should be what other countries strive for. We have free language classes for immigrants and even have some public services offered in languages other than English and French. Hell, we even have a national Punjabi broadcast of Hockey Night in Canada.

 

[VonKlaw]

This might seem a little controversial here, but unless his business was making freaking tons of money (in which case, why does he need welfare), then he wasn't contributing at all.

That's like saying that if I move to another country and pay tax on my £20,000 wages but decide to have a ton of kids that cost £30,000 in healthcare, schooling.etc then I'm still contributing. I'm not - I'm a drain on the countries resources. A well-meaning and non-malicious drain, but still a drain.

 

[Zipa]

Damn right you should. The area of the UK I live in has many foreign migrants who have come because there was lots of work available in the area. They have come here, stayed here and made a life here yet quite a significant amount don't speak hardly any words of English.

It is starting to get out of hand though, my niece just started at school and in her class of 30 people only 11 speak English, the rest speak a multitude of different European languages. Those 11 people my niece included are being neglected in class because the teachers are spending all their time trying to each basic English to those other kids, so much so that she gets 7 pages of work to do at home each week at 5 years old.
They also are not nurturing the smarter people in the class like my niece. The work she does get she completes very fast and the teachers admit she should be moved ahead. But because she is able they pretty much ignore her to focus on those migrant children.

That and it causes great animosity in society in the adult world to. Its not uncommon in my town for two different groups of nationals to get into fights pretty constantly, Polish people and Lithuanian people apparently do not get on for whatever reason. Now the violence has spilled over into the streets of the UK. Its likely that if these two cultures were made to or encouraged to properly integrate into the society they have moved to then there would not of been.

Don't mistake this for racism , some migrants do integrate and live happily in their new country. However a lot do not and they often bring their violence and squabbles into said new country which is not so good.

 

[mechalynx]

Speaking as an immigrant, fucking YES! If you move to a completely different country, and wish to stay there for the forseeable future, you MUST:

1. Obey its laws
2. Learn its (main) language

and unless you brought piles of money with you

3. Get a job

That is integration, to me at least. No one asks you to give up your origin and culture, but why the hell would you move to another county and not be a part of it? It's like going on vacation in Rome and never leaving the hotel.

 

[mechalynx]

Since I made a double post and don't want to get a warning...

The sentiment above (my previous) is what I thing should be the minimum required to get support. Mom did this when we moved to Sweden. I have met immigrants here who didn't lift a finger to provide for themselves and lived on welfare while sitting happily on their asses, not even bothering with going to school and learning the language, then got pissed off when it was reduced/pulled.

I consider them to be entitled shits.

 

[votemarvel]

I think that if you intend to live for an extended period in any country then you should learn the local language.

Putting aside anything else, this would be really important in medical situations. Would it not be best to be able to tell the first responders and other medical staff exactly what is wrong without having to hope an interpreter is nearby.

 

[Uncreation]

Since I made a double post and don't want to get a warning...

The sentiment above (my previous) is what I thing should be the minimum required to get support. Mom did this when we moved to Sweden. I have met immigrants here who didn't lift a finger to provide for themselves and lived on welfare while sitting happily on their asses, not even bothering with going to school and learning the language, then got pissed off when it was reduced/pulled.

I consider them to be entitled shits.

This! So much this. Seriously, some people in this thread seem to have this strange idea, that in order to integrate into a society, you have to completely abandon your former culture. YOU. DON'T. Nobody is saying you should just forget your old language. Lot's of people learn other languages even when they dont immigrate to other countries. Humans have the ability to know more than one language at a time. If you immigrate to a country and learn the local language, it will not magically erase the knowledge of your native one. Learning the habits and culture of that country will also not delete the knowledge of your own culture.
Further more, i see this as a form of respect to your new country and countrymen.

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

Learning the language really should be a requirement for any sort of permanent stay, citizenship or just permanent residence. In a reality where most europeans know at least two languages and a good deal know three there just is no way to properly compete in the marketplace if you don´t even know one relevant language. Plus it really is quite disrespectful. What kind of douche moves to a foreign country and doesn´t even bother to learn the language especially when doing so is government funded? That there is even a discussion about this bothers me.

 

[Aesir23]

I think a person should be encouraged to learn at least some of the language (with resources for such a thing being made readily available) but they certainly shouldn't be forced to and certainly shouldn't have benefits withheld because they haven't 'integrated'.

He was employed, paid his taxes and contributed to the economy overall. It is reprehensible to threaten to withhold the benefits that come with that just because that apparently isn't good enough.

 

[Agayek]

They should certainly encourage it - though not force it. In this case, it strikes me that (reasonably enough) the argument boils down to "should those on benefits lose their benefits if they are clearly not doing everything reasonably within their power to look for work or improve their employability" - a not unreasonable stance, and one I believe at the cornerstone of most country's unemployment relief. In this case, refusing to learn German (or being denied the right to learn German) is clearly not doing everything in her power to find employment.

This is pretty much my stance on it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the German government's actions, because they're basically saying "you're not trying hard enough to stop living on handouts", and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Matter of fact, I wish that attitude was far more prevalent.

 

[Images]

When I was on jobseekers allowance I was forced to go on a "skills" course. Even though I had a full degree and regular interviews with the media companies I wanted to work for. The course I was sent on was about working at shops stacking shelves or in fast food restaurants. Now though I hated every minute of having to attend the course I realised that the reason I was made to do it was not malicious. It was simply because the system is burdened and they don't want people staying on the system needlessly. They were giving me a not so subtle hint that I had to give ANY job consideration. That I am entitled to NOTHING for free.

Likewise I would not be opposed to people applying for welfare having to go on a native language course if they don't meety minimum standards. People are saying "Yeah, well when they were making money they weren't a problem". Well that's exactly right, they weren't. But now they are and the state needs to make sure that they aren't just throwing cash at something without any improvement. The improvement in this case is that with basic language skills the members of the family can actually get jobs that require that as part of the job.

Its not saying, "don't speak your mother tongue!". You can do that all you like. But if someone wants benefits from a system they should work with it and try to be a part of it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Besides, as a native citizen of your country, what (aside from presumably paying taxes) have you done to "lift a finger for them"? Why should there be extra burdens placed on non-citizens? Hypothetically speaking, a native German citizen can spend their whole life in poverty, never own a business, and go straight into welfare. Why do people assume that just because the native citizen on welfare speaks the country's language, he has "lifted a finger for" his society just by passing through a birth canal on the right plot of land, while a foreigner who actually contributed to the economy has done nothing just because they didn't learn the language?

Exactly. Why doesn't it count as integration when immigrants end up resembling established parts of a society the rest doesn't like?

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

No.

If they're working, contributing to society and being an all round good citizen without it then why should they have to? They were happy to let them speak their own language when they were contributing to the economy, why should that change because they require some help from social welfare?

In this case the guy is unemployed. To collect unemployment, (in the US and Canada at least) you have to prove that you are actively looking for another job. It would stand to reason you aren't going to have much luck finding work in a country if you don't speak the language.

But that aside, if you move to another country, it's really naive to think that something like not speaking the national language won't hurt you in the long run. Is it morally right for the government to threaten his benefits if he doesn't rectify that? I really can't say, but I don't really have much sympathy for someone who's being hurt by their own bad decisions, especially when he has the opportunity to rectify them before receiving the consequences.

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

If there paying taxes and are registered then no.