Show me more proof. (Boston bombings)

MetroidNut

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Sep 2, 2009
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Yes. You nailed it. The lunatic gunman who opened fire on cops, was seen dropping off a backpack at the site and confessed to the crime was shot in the throat so that his writings could be forged in order to hide the truth - that Barack "peace and understanding" Obama's government bombed the Boston marathon to invoke anti-Muslim hatred.

A plan so brilliant no one would ever suspect it.
 

the clockmaker

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Jun 11, 2010
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flarty said:
the clockmaker said:
flarty said:
the clockmaker said:
The documents indicate that the FBI infiltrated the occupy movement and was labeling them a domestic terrorist group.

The distinction between legal dissent and criminal conduct is easily forgotten i guess.
Did you somehow miss the part where I explained, in a fair amount of detail how that is not true? The documents indicate no such thing. Either actually show that they fucking do or stop saying that. I mean, all you are doing is simple repetition, you don't seem to be taking anything in.
So why is the occupy movement mentioned several times in documents and articles under the title "domestic terrorism"
I fucking explained that several fucking times in the first post I quoted you in. Either read it or stop fucking quoting me.

"Title: CAMPUS LIAISON
Liaison Matters

Synopsis: To document dissemination and claim appropriate
statistical accomplishments."

How does that not constitute spying?
Sorry mate, that does not a appear in your origional source or their source, so could you elaborate on why you think that this is spying. I make no comment until you give me more than the header of a document context free.


Edit: I just noticed that you haven't even read the document have you? Your just critiquing the websites critique of the document.
For fucks sake, you are using the guardian as a source for your value judgment on the situation. The Guardian is using justice online as a source for its value judgment who is making theirs by making a (very flawed) evaluation on the base documents. My evaluation (if you would ever be so fucking kind as to actually read it) was done by reading the Justice online evaluation and then comparing that with the base FBI documents. This is valid as it gives me access to the facts and the entire line of coaligned opinions.
 

The Last Nomad

Lost in Ethiopia
Oct 28, 2009
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Yeah I was thinking about this the other day...

If they did it, wouldn't they have been saying why they did it? There was obviously a point to it and I'm sure they would like to tell everyone how they were trying to teach boston/america a lesson or some shit?

Personally I don't care all that much, if it was them, all well and good. If the bombers are still at large it don't affect me.
 

Azaraxzealot

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Jayemsal said:
We have a confession, that's what.
It's not uncommon for confessions to be forced out of people.

Now put your tinfoil hats on for this one, but I think that it may be a conspiracy to make us feel "safe" from the bombing threat. I mean, Bin Laden didn't die too long ago and they want to preserve that feeling of "we're secure" so they just made scapegoats out of these boys to make it seem like the problem was solved.

Course it's more rational to assume the two are idiots that suck at covering their tracks.
 

Wicky_42

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Belaam said:
1) Two disturbed idiots fed on each other's paranoia, fear, and belief that if their lives were not as awesome as they thought they should be, it was because the society in which they lived was out to get them, and so they attacked that society. When discovered, they panicked and ran off shooting/throwing more home made explosives.

or

2) There is a vast conspiracy involving countless manipulated videos, photos, eyewitness reports, and the cooperation of two patsies with small home made bombs (but I guess not the large ones at the marathon) and guns who were willing to die for the cause when the manhunt for them began. Said chosen patsies being carefully selected to turn Americans against amateur boxers, Chechnyan immigrants, bros, and Muslims whose church leaders had denounced them as nuts, presumably because the President (or whoever would be in charge of such a conspiracy) wanted those groups to be even more hated than they already are.

Occam's Razor, anyone?
I counter your Razor with the strawman fallacy :p

I think the OP's concern has (or should have) more to do with initial reports about multiple other controlled detonations and confusion over conflicting reports about the simultaneous fire at the library. I was following a Reddit thread run by a guy with his ear glued to every police scanner he could and the amount of confusion was impressive.

I'm not backing his conspiracy theory, just moderating your strawman :p You'd have to be incredibly naive to just lap up official statements as fact, but at the same time it's probably not going to affect you that much either way, unless you start giving your politicians free reign to do what they like... oh wait... [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act]
 

flarty

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the clockmaker said:
I fucking explained that several fucking times in the first post I quoted you in. Either read it or stop fucking quoting me.
No i saw it, and it was basically you critiquing the article, you quoted the article and alternate interpretations of what they said. Not once did you quote the document and apply your interpretation. But lets clear this up, the fact that counter terrorist units were used to monitor OWS is not treating them like terrorists?



the clockmaker said:
Sorry mate, that does not a appear in your origional source or their source, so could you elaborate on why you think that this is spying. I make no comment until you give me more than the header of a document context free.
Its on page 51/52 of the document found here http://www.justiceonline.org/commentary/fbi-files-ows.html
When you document the goings on of events without peoples knowing, that is spying.


the clockmaker said:
For fucks sake, you are using the guardian as a source for your value judgment on the situation. The Guardian is using justice online as a source for its value judgment who is making theirs by making a (very flawed) evaluation on the base documents. My evaluation (if you would ever be so fucking kind as to actually read it) was done by reading the Justice online evaluation and then comparing that with the base FBI documents. This is valid as it gives me access to the facts and the entire line of coaligned opinions.
I have started reading some of what you wrote, sorry my dumb ass thought it was a quote within a quote originally. I'll read it all eventually. If you say you critiqued it whilst using the document then it should make for interesting reading.

Res Plus said:
Flarty, I never realised you mixed conspiracy theories in with your lunatic fringe left wing views! Are you making completely unsupported claims again and then running away when called on them?

Why don't you point out the page you were referring to and really show old NiPah up?... it couldn't be because you haven't read it either could it?

I expect you're busy counting all that money you invested in the burgeoning Venezuelan stock market eh? :)
Yes that's why i have been able to quote it in another post. Defending someone who condemned a legitimate article as bullshit then admitted he never even looked at it, says a lot about yourself and your delusions.

Whats this running away? I didn't know you still wanted to discuss Venezuela or Latin America. In all honesty i don't even remember discussing it with yourself. Nice to know i made more of impression than yourself. Maybe you could present this instance of me running away from a discussion regarding Venezuela? I just looked in that thread i was the last but one person to post in it, i hardly call that running away. But i would certainly maintain you are delusional if you do.

Have you anything to add to this discussion or are you here to bust balls?
 

flarty

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Apr 26, 2012
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Res Plus said:
Flarty, I never realised you mixed conspiracy theories in with your lunatic fringe left wing views! Are you making completely unsupported claims again and then running away when called on them?
Funny story actually
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.405369.16868785
you never got back to me on that, looks like you were the one doing the running =/
 

Rylingo

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saoirse13 said:
The amount of lies we have been told before is outrageous, yet the majority suck it all up to be the truth without any thought and zero questioning.
I disagree. I completely disagree. The majority of US citzens don't believe a single thing the government tells them. The one thing that unites both right wing and left is their complete and utter credulity at anything any politician says.

Please don't make the classic mistake of assuming that anyone who disagrees with you has never thought or questioned their position. A lot of people will look at the evidence you produce on any issue and find it wanting. The same is true for me. All you can do is make your arguments as persuasive and factually correct as possible.
 

Belaam

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Wicky_42 said:
I think the OP's concern has (or should have) more to do with initial reports about multiple other controlled detonations and confusion over conflicting reports about the simultaneous fire at the library. I was following a Reddit thread run by a guy with his ear glued to every police scanner he could and the amount of confusion was impressive.
That seems more a factor of the fact that emergencies are chaotic than a vast conspiracy. Eyewitness reports are notoriously erratic and you really need multiple viewpoints and/or some good video footage that can be objectively reviewed.

I'm not backing his conspiracy theory, just moderating your strawman :p You'd have to be incredibly naive to just lap up official statements as fact, but at the same time it's probably not going to affect you that much either way, unless you start giving your politicians free reign to do what they like... oh wait... [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act]
I guess my biggest problem with the conspiracy theories is that if there were a conspiracy, its goal is wildly unclear. Even if we take as a given that the Boston bombings were an in job by the U.S government, to what purpose was it done?

I mean, 9-11 at least has a clear effect - the invasion of Afghanistan, and later and far more tenuously, Iraq. Heck, if you're really into conspiracy, you could even argue that a possible 9-11 inside job was to foment anti-Muslim sentiment. If Sandy Hook were a conspiracy, you could argue that it was to help create a mandate for a background check (in which case you would probably worry about what the next step up will be). But Boston? Why? And more to the point, why would any group with the ability to create such an elaborate false event do so with such an unclear goal?

And while the Patriot Act does worry me, it doesn't do so nearly as much as the ongoing privatization of our military.
 

LetalisK

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Belaam said:
I guess my biggest problem with the conspiracy theories is that if there were a conspiracy, it's goal is wildly unclear. Even if we take as a given that the Boston bombings were an in job by the U.S government, to what purpose was it done?

I mean, 9-11 at least has a clear effect - the invasion of Afghanistan, and later and far more tenuously, Iraq. Heck, if you're really into conspiracy, you could even argue that a possible 9-11 inside job was to foment anti-Muslim sentiment. If Sandy Hook were a conspiracy, you could argue that it was to help create a mandate for a background check (in which case you would probably worry about what the next step up will be). But Boston? Why? And more to the point, why would any group with the ability to create such an elaborate false event do so with such an unclear goal?
Why would the goals be visible? If the goals are so obvious, then not only was it a poor plot, but it makes it that much easier to trace it back to the perpetrators. The best way is it make it seem like either A) it's just senseless violence that doesn't need further investigation or B) actually make it look like the attack would benefit some other group, preferably one opposed to your own. When you're in the Illuminati, you have to obscure everything you do.

Poe's Law.
 

cikame

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From what i understand there are cctv cameras of them placing the bombs, that's good enough for me.

I'm aware that there is other evidence, but in this case i don't find a reason to delve into it any further. Usually i try to find the truth in all the coverage of events like this and parse through all the exaggerations of the media, but this case seems to be mostly figured out and closed so *thumbs up*.
 

Bug MuIdoon

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Belaam said:
But Boston? Why? And more to the point, why would any group with the ability to create such an elaborate false event do so with such an unclear goal?
Please do not quote me on this, or believe that it is my opinion. It is just something I have read that could be one possible goal.

At least one bomb, and possibly both, were built using pressure cookers as the superstructure and gunpowder as the explosive. Which subsequently has be used to push tighter gunpowder and gun regulations.


Again, not my opinion, it is just what I have read as the main belief by 'conspiracy theorists'
 

Therumancer

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The thing is the authorities generally can't give their side of things in public as a matter of policy, especially seeing as it could potentially taint a trial by influancing public opinion. I've long felt that the press needs to be put under similar limitations when a trial is in progress.

I'll also say that in probably 90% or more of the cases where a guilty person is found innocent long after the fact it's the result of a technicality more than anything. The exceptions are very, very, rare. Basically someone who is successfully prosecuted and sits in jail for 10+ years has a good chance of getting off if he can find any bogus excuse to argue the case should be re-opened on a technicality. There are lawyers and private investigators who pretty much make a living trying to find ways of getting convicted people off after the fact. It can be very difficult for a prosecutor to re-build their entire case with all the things they are juggling, especially when it comes to witnesses (who might have died, moved on, or just not remember things all that well after a decade), evidence which needed to be stored and filed, or even finding the original investigators who might themselves be retired, dead, or otherwise not focused on the case anymore. Simply put a convicted person only has to focus on their one case, and professionals assisting them (or obsessive relatives or allies) can likewise show a lot more focus than the system can. In a system weighted heavily towards the defendant, all you need is one BS thing years after the fact. Likewise while the law can't be retroactively applied toward prosecuting someone, it CAN be retroactively applied to someone's defense and used to overturn previous rulings. Even in cases where DNA is brought up it can be more ambigious than you think when the prosecution is operating on notes many years old and doesn't have active investigators and such pursueing that case like when it was new to really address it and make counterpoints about how someone's DNA could have been in an odd place or whatever.

At any rate, as time goes on and the authorities become more aware of the issues, new cases are being investigated with an eye towards time proofing them and using the relevent technologies when the case is big enough (DNA testing and such is expensive, unlike on TV a police department can't just order tons of labwork at the drop of a hat, they don't have that kind of a budget). I doubt your going to see many more cases where some guy prosecuted during the 70s or 80s or whatever goes free during a re-trial.

That said, these guys are pretty much doomed. The nature of the court system being that we're unlikely to see much of the evidence in the public (nor should we, the OJ Simpson trial alone showed what a circus that turns into with a big case), but enough people have gone over this with enough differant political agendas where I don't think there is going to be a problem. Understand there are those (liberals, other muslims) who want to see this disproven for personal reasons, as well as there being international ramifications beyond that due to multiple citizenships with these guys apparently having lived and worked in Russia where they are at least partial citizens, an issue which has had Putin in dialogue with our own goverment and showing their eyes on the situation as well. Even if somehow these guys were ever found innocent of the bombing, they are still guilty of attacking the police, which is in of itself a crime that would put them away pretty much forever. Even if innocent, you do not attack the police, your supposed to cooperate while they question/investigate you, etc... running from the police is one thing and touchy, but when you attack them with explosives and firearms... well... being innocent of the charge the police were pursueing them for does not clear them from their attacks on the cops... and that isn't ambigious at all at this point.
 

Innegativeion

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Feb 18, 2011
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saoirse13 said:
Your kidding right. Trust the professionals who ultimately have a track record of lying to the public, to hide their own agenda. And trust the judge, well thats even if it goes to court, which I'd say there will be a seriously slim chance of.
He's been read his Miranda Rights. He'll have a trial if he wants one.

You could nearly place bets that this lads untimely death will surprisingly happen just before any court case can take place. You look at the history of America when it comes to things like this and 9 times out of 10 there is no suspect either thei die of 'natural causes, suicide or some lone ' vigilantly gets to them before anything can go public.
Nope it will all be swept under the rug from the publics eyes and ears then in 10 years it will be used as part of some excuse for another war
Oh, never mind. You're one of those. Go ahead and buy up nuclear bomb shelters full of tinfoil hats. So long as they're American made; we could use the extra capital circulation.
 

Carlston

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Oh more proof? Easy. When chased by police they threw BOMBS at them.
Now if they were concealed handgun owners beliveing they were being wrongfully targeted... you have a weak Wacco like case.

But they threw BOMBS in the same make of the marathon bombing. That pretty much sums up any guilt. Unless you start getting into the idea federal agents planted the bombs in the SUV they stole so they would throw them at the police to prove guilt...


Which comes to tinfoil hat wearing time.

But yeah... they throwing of bombs at police durring the chase pretty much seals the charge.

As for goals. The goal is terror. The target are "soft" targets. A soft target is not a heavily defended court house. But large groups of people with no real protection IE a race with hordes of people packed together. The goal is TERROR once a bomb goes off, you won't want to wait in line for a movie let alone go to say a DMV with a bomber on the loose.
 

mitchell271

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Jayemsal said:
We have a confession, that's what.
If you were left in solitary confinement for 30 days, wouldn't you say whatever your captors wanted you to say? I know that's not what they went through, but confessions aren't always reliable. You can be forced to sign one or you might sign one out of desperation.
 

TakerFoxx

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LetalisK said:
Why would the goals be visible? If the goals are so obvious, then not only was it a poor plot, but it makes it that much easier to trace it back to the perpetrators. The best way is it make it seem like either A) it's just senseless violence that doesn't need further investigation or B) actually make it look like the attack would benefit some other group, preferably one opposed to your own. When you're in the Illuminati, you have to obscure everything you do.
If so, they're doing a piss-poor job of it then, seeing how their every plot has been exposed by an innumerable amount of blogs and YouTube videos. But hey, this is an organization that let Kesha in, so we can't expect too much.

Conspiracy theorists are fuckin' trippy, man.
 

NiPah

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flarty said:
Yes that's why i have been able to quote it in another post. Defending someone who condemned a legitimate article as bullshit then admitted he never even looked at it, says a lot about yourself and your delusions.

Whats this running away? I didn't know you still wanted to discuss Venezuela or Latin America. In all honesty i don't even remember discussing it with yourself. Nice to know i made more of impression than yourself. Maybe you could present this instance of me running away from a discussion regarding Venezuela? I just looked in that thread i was the last but one person to post in it, i hardly call that running away. But i would certainly maintain you are delusional if you do.

Have you anything to add to this discussion or are you here to bust balls?
No, I read your initial website, then I skimmed the article it used as a source, then I skimmed the FBI documents which the article had used for a source, following the absurd rabbit hole of bias and bullshit I could find no actual documentation of what your initial website claimed. We were talking about taking a healthy cynical viewpoint and you linked some bullshit article about a completely different situation and claimed it was proof enough for you to claim the government set up the bombers... for what ever reason.

Quite honestly if you're willing to take the Guardian as a substantial source without even giving a shit about what they use as sources then you lack even the basic skills to call someone out on critical thinking, but again you're an even worse type of person to use this entire situation to promote your anti-government viewpoints.