Six-Year-Old Upset By Lack of Female Friendly Avengers Toys

MrGalactus

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thaluikhain said:
MrGalactus said:
and Amanda Waller, who is fat.
Not in the reboot. Can't have fat women in comics anymore, it seems.

While we are at it, though, pre-reboot Birds of Prey and Cassandra Cain were decent female characters, but they fixed this with the new 52.
Haven't been reading Birds of Prey, don't think I will. The current Marvel NOW! X-Men is all female (for now) with all distinct personalities, though. It's actually shaping up really well, to say there's only 2 issues out so far. Rouge kicks a whole lot of ass right now. Maybe they should fix the confusing mess that is the current X-Men
big screen continuity and start over in the Avengers movieverse with these current fe-
male characters. Bring something "for girls" to the mainstream.

So, out of curiosity I google imaged "New 52 Amanda Waller", and I have to say,

What the fuck happened? There are now 0 females in the comics world that aren't ridic-
ulously, impossibly attractive. Is this all comics artists know how to draw, or do th-
ey just have no imagination at all? If it's a publishing call, DC, please know that n-
obody buys a comic for porn. Nobody cares what they look like. Do something different
for once. That goes for everyone writing and drawing comics.
 

DarthSka

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"Does anyone ever see any Black Widow packages? Does anyone ever see any Black Widow action figures?"

Uh, yes, I have, several times. I like to check out the toy section every now and then on my trips to Walmart, Target, etc. and back when the movie came out I saw several toys of her. Though I do admit that it was to a far less extent than some of the others. However, someone else can relate to the whole pretending that she-doesn't-exist thing: Hawkeye. The main problem for the lack of Black Widow toys is the same for him, that neither he nor she is one of the core four Avengers that were used to promote the hell out of the movie. They didn't have their own movies and they didn't have any super powers, genetic modifications, advanced technology, or anger problems, so they didn't attract the same amount of attention that the main four received. Hell, Nick muthafuckin' Fury and Agent Phil Coulson received far less attention as well, and that seems like far more of a tragedy to me. Sigh, I miss Phil.
 

Belaam

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This is so dumb from a marketing standpoint. I'm a geek. I have daughters. I want to get them comic book stuff. Black Widow would be fine. But I'd unload all kind of cash on Wasp or Hawkgirl stuff. Or Raven or Starfire from animated Teen Titans. They watch TT, Justice League, etc. all the time, know the cast and would love to have stuff from them. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

But instead... nothing. They've got some foam swords they love re-enacting fight scenes with. There's some Wonder Woman stuff out there, but not a lot. I know there's a bit of inherent sexism in most comics, but you'd think the marketing department would just go for the money.

I guess if all else fails, I can give one daughter a black dress, put a pair of her mom's heels on the floor, dress up the other daughter like a Russian general, and let them go to it. :D
 

Lightknight

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Belaam said:
This is so dumb from a marketing standpoint. I'm a geek. I have daughters. I want to get them comic book stuff. Black Widow would be fine. But I'd unload all kind of cash on Wasp or Hawkgirl stuff. Or Raven or Starfire from animated Teen Titans. They watch TT, Justice League, etc. all the time, know the cast and would love to have stuff from them. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

But instead... nothing. They've got some foam swords they love re-enacting fight scenes with. There's some Wonder Woman stuff out there, but not a lot. I know there's a bit of inherent sexism in most comics, but you'd think the marketing department would just go for the money.

I guess if all else fails, I can give one daughter a black dress, put a pair of her mom's heels on the floor, dress up the other daughter like a Russian general, and let them go to it. :D
1. The Wasp: http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Legends-Series-Action-Figure/dp/B000F900RY (there are others, none less than $20 but she's probably the least popular of the ones you mentioned, as evidenced by the Black Widow replacing her in the Avengers)

2. Hawkgirl: http://www.amazon.com/Justice-League-America-Hawkgirl-Action/dp/B000ULPGYY/ref=sr_1_22?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373783010&sr=1-22&keywords=hawkgirl (there's actually several different versions of Hawkgirl action figures. Some are pretty cool)

3. Raven (not sure which you're talking about, probably teen titan but they are actually rare in general: http://www.amazon.com/DC-Universe-Classics-Raven-Figure/dp/B002UHJTB2/ref=sr_1_3?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373783093&sr=1-3&keywords=raven

4. Starfire: http://www.amazon.com/Teen-Titans-Blackfire-Action-Figure/dp/B00023DF5M/ref=sr_1_12?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373783748&sr=1-12&keywords=starfire


5. Starfire and Raven: http://www.amazon.com/2012-SDCC-Comic-Exclusive-Titans/dp/B008M05KDC/ref=sr_1_4?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373783190&sr=1-4&keywords=raven+action+figure+teen+titans

Again: http://www.amazon.com/Mattel-Universe-Infinite-Starfire-Boomerang/dp/B0015H79JM/ref=sr_1_2?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373783272&sr=1-2&keywords=raven+teen+titans ($20 for both Starfire and Raven, these are the adult versions and not the teen versions)

I've noticed that teen titan action figures in general appear to be sparse in the traditional action figure sense. There's a cyborg Raven combo that is old. I mean, look at any of them and the prices are high. If they have Robin in them then they're even higher.

Here's a pretty badass Superwoman that reminds me of Raven if she loved America: http://www.amazon.com/DC-Direct-Superman-Krypton-Superwoman/dp/B003B9CALY/ref=pd_sim_t_1

The point is, all of these action figures exist and I've seen them in walmarts and targets but generally for small windows of time. If you really want to find stuff like that you should go to a local comic book store. They'll usually have these kinds of things. I have some pretty cool female character's from the DC Kingdom Come series. Designed by Alex Ross (my favorite artist that has a kind of Norman Rockwell nature to him).

There's a lot of female characters out there. They're just as available as the rest and are honestly usually cheaper than the male counterparts because they don't sell as well, you just have to actually look.
 

Belaam

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Lightknight said:
There's a lot of female characters out there. They're just as available as the rest and are honestly usually cheaper than the male counterparts because they don't sell as well, you just have to actually look.
Those are good, and would probably even pick up a few for the 5yo's birthday next month, if it weren't for the fact that they seem to be more $20-$30 collectibles and less quick and easy toys I would give a pre-schooler without caring too much if they get trashed.

Additionally, I was really more looking for costumes as they both love dress up. Batman cowls abound, as do Cap shields, Ironman helms, Hulk fists, Spiderman webshooters, etc. All at major chain stores. Female kid costumes and props, however, are hard to find. Yeah, if I lived in a town with a good comic book store, I'd probably have better options, but I'm in the middle of nowhere and Kmart/Target are as good as my options get.
 

J Tyran

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Phrozenflame500 said:
Not surprising. Not only because Avengers is generally aimed towards boys, but also because Black Widow happens to be one of the least marketable heroes in the set (everyone knows who the Hulk, Captain America and Iron Man are, but Black Widow?)
Wasn't Black Widow the token female character that provided the tight black jumpsuit? It seems no superhero movie is complete without a tight jumpsuit.
 

Lightknight

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Belaam said:
Lightknight said:
There's a lot of female characters out there. They're just as available as the rest and are honestly usually cheaper than the male counterparts because they don't sell as well, you just have to actually look.
Those are good, and would probably even pick up a few for the 5yo's birthday next month, if it weren't for the fact that they seem to be more $20-$30 collectibles and less quick and easy toys I would give a pre-schooler without caring too much if they get trashed.

Additionally, I was really more looking for costumes as they both love dress up. Batman cowls abound, as do Cap shields, Ironman helms, Hulk fists, Spiderman webshooters, etc. All at major chain stores. Female kid costumes and props, however, are hard to find. Yeah, if I lived in a town with a good comic book store, I'd probably have better options, but I'm in the middle of nowhere and Kmart/Target are as good as my options get.
Actually, it's lucky you mentioned that because I found (but decided not to mention) two halloween costumes in the $25 range. One Starfire and the other was Raven.

Starfire ($25): http://www.amazon.com/Child-Starfire-Costume-Large-Size/dp/B003LRQZM6/ref=sr_1_19?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373790415&sr=1-19&keywords=starfire

Raven ($26): http://www.amazon.com/Halloween-Costumes-Titans-Raven-Costumes/dp/B009377QIU/ref=sr_1_9?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373790493&sr=1-9&keywords=raven+costume

That was only stuff I saw while looking up those names in the toy section so you could probably find better deals elsewhere.

But yes, you've stumbled onto the nature of kids toys meeting the collector's inflation all thanks to us comic book nerds. That $20 one at the end is for three action figures. Two are Starfire and Raven while the third is.. ummmm... Captain Boomerang *cough*. Not a bad deal but the adult version of Starfire isn't exactly great for kids as she's a bikini clad super hero.

But that was just a really quick list of characters, so you should be able to find better deals elsewhere. Let me see if I can find you a few female characters at around $10:

*Blackfire (Starfire): http://www.amazon.com/Teen-Titans-Blackfire-Action-Figure/dp/B00023DF5M/ref=sr_1_12?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373783748&sr=1-12&keywords=starfire

Black Canary ($2.47 but I don't know who would want her except the Green Arrow): http://www.amazon.com/DC-Universe-Infinite-Heroes-Years/dp/B003ANL0EY/ref=sr_1_2?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373791091&sr=1-2&keywords=female+action+figures+superheroes

Invisible Woman ($0.20, is this a joke price, it appears to be sold from reputable vendors so I guess not? This is an old school figure anyways so your kid may not want it) http://www.amazon.com/SUPERHEROES-FANTASTIC-INVISIBLE-CATAPULT-LAUNCHER/dp/B0009Y8IDS/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373791091&sr=1-1&keywords=female+action+figures+superheroes

*Female Wolverine? ($11.75 if you buy from new instead of the Amazon amount. Note that she's 3 3/4 inches) http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Universe-Series-Action-Figure/dp/B005C1CW1M/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373791304&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=female+action+figures+superheroes

Psylocke ($9.99, there's actually several female characters in this series of 3 3/4 inch characters, so look around if that height doesn't bother you) http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Universe-Series-Action-Psylocke/dp/B005KSW0NC/ref=pd_bxgy_t_img_y

Power Girl ($8.99 if you click the "new" link on the page) http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Classic-Power-Girl-Figure/dp/B002S592HW/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373791304&sr=1-3-fkmr1&keywords=female+action+figures+superheroes

Raven ($7 from the new link, this is the adult version, not teen titans): http://www.amazon.com/DC-Universe-Classics-Raven-Figure/dp/B002UHJTB2/ref=sr_1_7?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373791632&sr=1-7&keywords=female+action+figures

3 3/4 inch Spider Woman ($10) http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Universe-Series-Action-SpiderWoman/dp/B004D1HB2M/ref=sr_1_32?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373791775&sr=1-32&keywords=female+action+figures_

*Diana Prince ($9, some kind of Wonder Woman line) http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Woman-Series-Agent-Prince/dp/B000RF8PSM/ref=sr_1_21?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373792032&sr=1-21&keywords=woman+action+figures+superheroes

Zatana ($12) http://www.amazon.com/Identity-Crisis-Action-Figure-Series/dp/B0009F3DVO/ref=pd_sim_t_16

*Ones I find kind of interesting, actually.

I'm going to stop there. There's a ton that I just didn't link to that were in that price range. There's also plushies and other toys there. Ebay had some good stuff too but I thought Amazon would be more reliable to link to. You just have to research this stuff or you won't know it exists. You'll note that my links include the kinds of words I used to find them at the end (between plus symbols). So I didn't do anything unusual and trying other things may net much better results than mine.

I leave you with one joke, funny or not: http://www.amazon.com/Yahoo-Hotjobs-Powering-Superhero-Recruiter/dp/B004E7KFH8/ref=sr_1_5?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1373792286&sr=1-5&keywords=female+action+figures+superheroes
 

Lightknight

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CriticKitten said:
dversion said:
A product does not equal a market. It's neither aimed at nor tried to include the market of young girls.
And MLP toys aren't marketed for teenage/adult males either.

But unless retail laws in your country specifically forbid people of that age and gender demographic from buying those products, I'm pretty sure they're still allowed to buy them.

Again: The girl's complaint is that characters like Black Widow don't have action figures. She is wrong, they actually DO have action figures of Black Widow and many other Marvel superheroines. So her complaint is wrong right from the start.

And if she's not actually going to buy into the toy line to begin with, then she's got no right to demand a greater say in the toy line than the people who actually buy the toys. When she starts buying the toys that she and her parents claimed didn't exist, she can start complaining, and maybe someone will care then.

I'm not sure why I need to keep repeating this, because it's so very simple. If you don't have any interest in buying a product and continue to show no interest in buying it, why should the company listen to you instead of the people who are buying it?

This isn't a discussion about what's "fair" in society, nor a discussion of gender equality. It's a discussion of logic and of business practices. Companies exist to sell goods and services to their customers, ergo the opinions of their customers should come first, the opinions of people who aren't currently their customers but might be some day should come second, and the opinions of people who will NEVER be their customers should not come up at all. If you're never going to buy their toys....why should they ever worry about catering to you?
Reading dversion's post in another way may be taken a different way that would entirely agree with you and me (we seem to be on the same page) if you disregard the part where they said they aren't trying to market to girls (they are, they love money). A product is the manufactured object, in this case, the Black Widow. This is supply, 1/2 of what constitutes a market. The other half, demand, wouldn't just be her wanting the action figure, but being willing and able to pay for said action figure. The lack of demand would be enough to de-legitimize the market even if companies produce them (and they do).

This then, would be more of an observation of girl's tastes in toys, whether socially driven or biologically (or something in between which is usually the case with most things). That even though these toys do exist, they are not popular enough to be stocked on shelves longterm. That being said, I did see a black widow action figure in Walmart around the time of the Avenger's movie. So I'm also not convinced that these wouldn't be available in stores when they're popular. In any event, if girls actually buy these action figures significantly less than males buy male action figures, then complaining about this would be akin to complaining about pantyhose not being made with enough room to comfortably contain a male organ due to them almost all being made with women in mind. Except, in this case, the product is really and regularly being made and is completely available on the market and usually at a lower cost due to reduced demand. So, complaint=invalid.
 

Something Amyss

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shirkbot said:
This made me chuckle, so I shall re-post it for all. Thank you.
He's very good at writing team dynamics, but otherwise he's nothing particularly special.
I agree. I think he's a solid writer, and an entertaining writer. I enjoy a lot of what he's done. If I were the type of person who did organised lists well, Buffy would probably be somewhere on my Top Ten. Firefly would be pretty high up my list, I imagine, as well.

He's just not...What's that word I'm looking for? Brilliant.


Companies will almost always use old ideas until they make negative money before attempting new ideas. It's part of the reason the U.S. has such absurd copyright laws: Companies just want to use the same properties and ideas forever. If you want something new you basically have to have a new company do it or legally end their ability to do what they've been doing.
Due to formatting, I almost just quoted myself and agreed with me instead of you!

The "negative money" threshold is pretty much why action figures aren't going to open themselves up to girls any time soon. at least, not without external prompting. Because barring massive social upheaval, boys are still going to be major consumers of action figures. It's not like you're going to "lose money" targeting boys. And they aren't looking to see whether there's money elsewhere.

Copyright is just annoying the way it's been rigged.
 

gyroscopeboy

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Desert Punk said:
Seriously... the fact that she isnt on the BOX is a problem?

Fuck the PC brigade, Nick Fury and Hawk Eye arent on the box's either even though their action figures exist..

The four main heros and Loki are the focus of the action figures, not the supporting characters.
It's pretty clear that if you don't have your your own comic film rebooted successfully in the last 10 years, you don't get premium placement on Avengers packaging. Gender doesn't really come into it, apart from much higher up the chain, in the movie exec's offices.
 

Stalydan

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Well I don't think anyone can blame for not know there was a Black Widow toy. I've never seen it advertised at all.

She brings up good points though. Black Widow isn't a side character and she's not exactly pushed to the back in the marketing for the movies yet she's not even put on the box. Doesn't even have to be on the front. there's lot of toys that put more characters on the back to advertise other figures.

And to the people who say "Avengers is a boy's thing!", 50% of the fanbase is female, I think we can all agree that your argument is invalid.
 

Flatfrog

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Abomination said:
Oh boo fucking hoo. This is getting droll pretty damn fast.

How dare a comic series aimed mostly at males for a good 60 years have mostly male characters in the primary roles!
But isn't that the whole point? Why does a comic series de facto have to be aimed 'mostly at males'? Are there not plenty of girls who might enjoy a comic book movie? And are boys incapable of enjoying a movie that features a female protagonist? What's wrong with challenging these things?
 

Abomination

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Flatfrog said:
Abomination said:
Oh boo fucking hoo. This is getting droll pretty damn fast.

How dare a comic series aimed mostly at males for a good 60 years have mostly male characters in the primary roles!
But isn't that the whole point? Why does a comic series de facto have to be aimed 'mostly at males'? Are there not plenty of girls who might enjoy a comic book movie? And are boys incapable of enjoying a movie that features a female protagonist? What's wrong with challenging these things?
The whole point is to make money. You put your money on the sure bets and 6 year old girls are not the fucking sure bet.

Hawkeye and Black Widow are the least useful members of the team anyway - it's probably why they only got cameos and not actual movies. A Miss Marvel movie would probably have allowed her to be a member of The Avengers but studio execs can't even get a Wonder Woman film off the ground and she's far more recognized.

So boo-fucking-hoo. Yeah it could be better but it isn't going to happen any time soon. Gonna need more support than just a 6 year old girl to get the corporate clout to make some waves here.

That's the reality of the situation. Hope in one hand and shit in the other. Guess which one will fill up faster?
 

Flatfrog

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Abomination said:
Hawkeye and Black Widow are the least useful members of the team anyway - it's probably why they only got cameos and not actual movies. A Miss Marvel movie would probably have allowed her to be a member of The Avengers but studio execs can't even get a Wonder Woman film off the ground and she's far more recognized.

So boo-fucking-hoo. Yeah it could be better but it isn't going to happen any time soon. Gonna need more support than just a 6 year old girl to get the corporate clout to make some waves here.
So we should just accept that crappy situation and stop complaining? Isn't that a bit counterproductive? Surely the only thing that might persuade the corporate minds to put up the cash to try a more equal movie would be this kind of campaign and discussion, wouldn't it?

I understand that the Avengers haven't really got a lot of decent female characters to work with but it would have been nice to see them at least trying a single movie with a female lead in Phase 2. Wasp isn't much of a character in the comics, but then neither are any of them, frankly - a decent scriptwriter could make a fantastic movie for her. For that matter, couldn't we have had a Black Widow movie, now we've got the character set up? The only female-led comic book movies I can think of were Catwoman (ugh) and Elektra (actually pretty decent). The fact that we haven't had a Wonder Woman movie yet is frankly outrageous.

It's not all bad, of course - the X-Men movies have been pretty balanced in their gender mix and featured some great female characters.
 

Lightknight

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Stalydan said:
Well I don't think anyone can blame for not know there was a Black Widow toy. I've never seen it advertised at all.

She brings up good points though. Black Widow isn't a side character and she's not exactly pushed to the back in the marketing for the movies yet she's not even put on the box. Doesn't even have to be on the front. there's lot of toys that put more characters on the back to advertise other figures.

And to the people who say "Avengers is a boy's thing!", 50% of the fanbase is female, I think we can all agree that your argument is invalid.
Huh? She isn't a side character? No,she definitely is. Her and hawkeye. I'm surprised that Captain America is able to play the role he did. But that's the problem of superheros that don't have super powers when they're placed along side other heroes or villains that do have super powers.

That being said, she is most certainly advertised as much as the others. She's on every poster and every add that is for the toys themselves. There isn't a mask for her or a weapon but that's because she doesn't have a mask or noteable weapon. When I saw her on shelves around the time the movie came out, she was right next to all the others.

There just isn't a high demand for her. Even girls might rather have Iron Man or the Hulk first.
 

the December King

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CriticalMiss said:
Woo, right on sister! Death to the manfolk and all that. They can take our high paying jobs but they'll never have a monopoly on all the cool action figures! *burns bra*

For realsies, that Black Widow toy is kind of ugly looking. And I don't remember her using a four foot grappling hook in the film. Then again, I don't remember Iron Man having an electrified sawblade or Captain America using a bazooka that fire shields. What does Hulk get? Nothing but the shorts on his butt. If anyone should be pissed about inequality in toys it's the giant green rage monsters.
Your post made me smile, sincerely!

I would have thought the Black Widow was a popular figurine. She added that human element to the whole thing that was sorely needed (even though I thought she was poorly used during the end battle), while still being skilled and obviously tough.

Huh, captcha just asked me "ARE YOU A HUMAN?"

...

oddly, when I got that wrong, it told me I was 'other worldly'.