SJW Jim Sterling says Link has to be female and that violent video games promote rape culture.

happyninja42

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Necrozius said:
Fappy said:
Personally, I'd be happy with a "choose your gender" option at the start of the game. We already choose Link's name at the start of many of the games, so it isn't like anything about male Link is that well-defined to begin with.
I agree. I mean, why not? Each Link storyline happens at different time periods (the main three characters, Link, Zelda and Ganon are basically reincarnations). It would be interesting to see a gender-swapped version of the story.

Although not sure what dude-Zelda would be named. Zeldor? :D
Zeldan, Zeldarian, Zeldano! *with a Zorro flourish every time he says it*, Zeldor like you said is a good one too, Zeldar.....uh, yeah that's all I got right now. Though I'm sure some others would fit. It's not like Nintendo is adverse to the "goofy name" naming convention.

OT: I have zero issue with Link being female, with the "always reincarnated" trope for the game line, there's no reason the Hero couldn't be reborn into a girl. Though personally I'm annoyed with the constant snub to Zelda. Woman's name is in the title, and she's never the actual protagonist in her own game line.

Feels like a game line about being Spiderman, but instead you always play as the nerdy guy at the Daily Bugle that is JJ Jamison's assistant.
 

Yopaz

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Saelune said:
If people want a female protagonist in a Zelda game...why not Zelda? Id much rather a game where Link gets captured instead of Zelda for whatever reason, and Zelda has to be the hero, instead of making a female Link.

I would rather make new good female heroes then just genderbending male ones.
I've been saying this for a while. Pretty much exactly this in fact.

We could even have a game split between Zelda and Link 50:50. Zelda got magic, Link got gadgets. This could both offer a solid female playable character and a significant alteration in gameplay. You could easilly replace Link's character model and change some text boxes in any Zelda game and you would get a female Link. Same game.

Fappy said:
While clever, please try not to make misleading thread titles. It can cause more trouble than it's worth.
In the past this could actually be worthy of a warning and the thread getting closed.

OT: Why do we jump on threads/videos where we reply before we know what we're replying to? Because it takes minutes to read/watch and mere seconds to get so angry that spittle flies as we talk. Anyone who knows Jim Sterling knows what's he's on about and they know whether they are more likely to agree or disagree or anything inbetween. I find myself agreeing to him more often than not, then disagreeing with how far he can sometimes take his points or some nuances to it so I want to hear him out before I decide if I agree or disagree. Others know they will disagree and they make assumptions about what he's saying. They would likely disagree even after watching the video, this just saves them time.

I would have liked to see the response if Nintendo announced Link in Breath of the Wild would be female though. There was outrage when Nintendo announced that Link would be riight handed in the Wii version of Twilight Princess (due to the fact it was using motion controls and most people are right handed), I can only imagine how those people would react to gender change.
 

Something Amyss

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MysticSlayer said:
I'd imagine some will accuse Nintendo of bowing down to pressure because it fits the "SJWs are ruining everything!!!!!" narrative, but I doubt we'll ever know either way.
I think the bigger question is "does it matter?"

Like, I remember when bowing to pressure was a good thing. Other M and Freedom Force or whatever that spinoff was, where people weren't concerned about Nintendo's creative freedom because they were doing Metroid wrong!

Or Link being a righty in the Wii game whose name I forget right now but will almost certainly remember after I hit post.

Or Starfox Zero. I mean, the control thing is so totally a Nintendo move, but it was protested. And I get that. People want things the way they want them. Even if I owned a Wii U I wouldn't buy Starfox because of that. And Nintendo's free to do things that ensure I won't give them my money, and I'm free to criticise them.

It only seems it's a problem when people want certain things. More specifically, it's okay for Nintendo to do things of its own volition as long as I agree with the choice.

Gizen said:
And lo and behold, Hyrule Warriors even has one that's female (albeit with a dumb name), so it's not impossible.
In fairness, Omega Force figured out how women worked ages ago. I think Nintendo's still on the Ubisoft model.

Happyninja42 said:
Feels like a game line about being Spiderman, but instead you always play as the nerdy guy at the Daily Bugle that is JJ Jamison's assistant.
That would probably still be a better Spider-Man game than most of the recent ones.
 

ckam

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I was about to say, "Did you even watch the videos?", but I always read the context. Very clickbaity title, though.
 

MysticSlayer

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Something Amyss said:
It only seems it's a problem when people want certain things. More specifically, it's okay for Nintendo to do things of its own volition as long as I agree with the choice.
I think that's been standard for more than just Nintendo. People can talk all they want about "creative freedom", but once that creative freedom works against them, it's nothing but complaints. Of course, bring that up and it's all "Well it doesn't apply here because [bullshit excuse]."
 

Something Amyss

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MysticSlayer said:
Something Amyss said:
It only seems it's a problem when people want certain things. More specifically, it's okay for Nintendo to do things of its own volition as long as I agree with the choice.
I think that's been standard for more than just Nintendo. People can talk all they want about "creative freedom", but once that creative freedom works against them, it's nothing but complaints. Of course, bring that up and it's all "Well it doesn't apply here because [bullshit excuse]."
Oh, I agree. I just stuck with Nintendo examples, because the original question was about whether the inevitable girl Link will be because Nintendo really truly wanted it or not.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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JamesStone said:
Samtemdo8 said:
Link is male. Case close. Just because he has some effeminate features in his face does not mean he can be morphed into female.

And besides he did not look that androgynous in certain art styles of him like Ocarina of Time:



People seems to forget that his "girly features" comes with youth because at his oldest Link is often portrayed as 17 years old.

Make him 30 and he will grow a beard and yes Hylians can grow beards:

You do realize Link is not "Link" right? The Legend of Zelda stories say the Hero of Hyrule is reincarnated at every new age, and almost all games use different Links, which is why you can name them differently and they have to relearn everything. There's absolutely no story reason that all Links have the same clothes, more or less, much less gender
Well so far all of his reincarnations has been consistantly male. Does that not imply that it has to be a male for him to be the bearer of the Triforce of Courage?

And Zelda has to be female because she is the re-incarnation of the GODDESS Hylia.
 

Vahir

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Samtemdo8 said:
JamesStone said:
You do realize Link is not "Link" right? The Legend of Zelda stories say the Hero of Hyrule is reincarnated at every new age, and almost all games use different Links, which is why you can name them differently and they have to relearn everything. There's absolutely no story reason that all Links have the same clothes, more or less, much less gender
Well so far all of his reincarnations has been consistantly male. Does that not imply that it has to be a male for him to be the bearer of the Triforce of Courage?

And Zelda has to be female because she is the re-incarnation of the GODDESS Hylia.
"Link can't be female because we've only ever made him male."

"We always made Link male because he can't be female."

I agree that gender swapping link is silly, but this is a hell of a logic circle. It's like saying, Obama can't be president because all other presidents were white.

I personally love Jim's off-handed suggestion that Zelda be the main character because Link, in that timeline, is too old to do the adventuring himself. Old!Link is Best!Link.
 

2HF

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Samtemdo8 said:
MysticSlayer said:
Samtemdo8 said:
Link is male. Case close.
He's male because someone in the 1980s decided to make him male. If someone decided to make Link female in a future game, then Link would be female in that game regardless of whether or not you say "Link is male. Case closed." It's not like Link is some real-life person who absolutely insists he's a male. Whether Link is male or female is decided on the whim of the writers, and it can be changed at the whim of the writers.
The thing is why are we having this discussion with Link of all people? Why Link?

I have never seen anyone asking for a female Mario. You know why because he is now firmly established as a male character.

Link has now been imbedded in everyone's psyche as a male character, he is made to be male, he will remain male.
Because there isn't 1 link. Link is the hero of time, a different incarnation virtually every time. There is zero reason why one incarnation couldn't be female.

A female link can be just as agile, just a strong, just as smart, they just wouldn't have a Y chromosome.

A better question is why you're so opposed. If you're a big enough fan of Zelda then you already know this. If you're not then why should you care?

Saying Link can't be female because Link has always been male is like saying Link can't be right handed because Link has always been left handed, except that Link can and in fact has been right handed because it doesn't freakin matter.
 

teh_Canape

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Kingjackl said:
Ok, well played with the thread title. That's how you bait fish right there son.
gotta appreciate when someone actually puts bait and not just empty hooks
 

SixWingedAsura

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Argh.

My two biggest issues with this whole "let's make Link a girl thing" are that:
A.) Everyone arguments seem to boil down to "why not?" which to me smacks of the most passive aggressive of saying, "If you disagree with this, you're sexist." Why fix something that isn't broken, unless you're telling me that a character being male is automatically broken, and if you're telling me that, then there's no getting through to you.

B.) Everyone keeps ignoring Zelda herself. Because we have to genderbend instead of taking an already interesting character who could have an awesome and kickass game in her own right because someone threw a fit that Link was male for too long. I don't hate the idea of a female protagonist in Legend of Zelda, I hate trying to take a character who has been male for so long and genderbending him because, as above, "why not?" Stop ignoring Zelda!
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Christ, there isn't even a Triforce, a Zelda, or a Ganon in a lot of Legend of Zelda games.

Are people seriously suggesting that Link's gender identity is a more important plot point?
 

Orga777

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SixWingedAsura said:
B.) Everyone keeps ignoring Zelda herself. Because we have to genderbend instead of taking an already interesting character who could have an awesome and kickass game in her own right because someone threw a fit that Link was male for too long. I don't hate the idea of a female protagonist in Legend of Zelda, I hate trying to take a character who has been male for so long and genderbending him because, as above, "why not?" Stop ignoring Zelda!
Nah, people have asked about a playable Zelda for years. Of course, Aonuma made a nonsensical comment about that too which made no sense at all by saying "if we have Zelda be the main hero, what does Link get to do?" Which is of course the most inane thing I ever heard as an excuse from a supposedly creative person. I think a playable Zelda would be awesome just because of how different her play style could be from Link's. I still don't get why they haven't made a game with her as the main hero yet. Heck, it could be a split story with both Link and Zelda playable in the same game, which I think would be even better.
 

Silvanus

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SixWingedAsura said:
Argh.

My two biggest issues with this whole "let's make Link a girl thing" are that:
A.) Everyone arguments seem to boil down to "why not?" which to me smacks of the most passive aggressive of saying, "If you disagree with this, you're sexist." Why fix something that isn't broken, unless you're telling me that a character being male is automatically broken, and if you're telling me that, then there's no getting through to you.
Everything here could be switched around for an equally valid argument from the other side.

In fact, you criticised the "why not?" rationale-- but then opined that we shouldn't fix something that isn't broken. That's... essentially the same rationale. Asking why we should fix something that isn't broken is the same as asking, "why not?"

SixWingedAsura said:
B.) Everyone keeps ignoring Zelda herself. Because we have to genderbend instead of taking an already interesting character who could have an awesome and kickass game in her own right because someone threw a fit that Link was male for too long. I don't hate the idea of a female protagonist in Legend of Zelda, I hate trying to take a character who has been male for so long and genderbending him because, as above, "why not?" Stop ignoring Zelda!
Uhrm, I think most of the people who would like a female Link would be perfectly happy with Zelda (or Sheik) in the role of the protagonist. The request is for a female protag, not necessarily that it's Link.
 

BytByte

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Why not just give Link both the boobidies and the dangly bits so everyone would be appeased? Lords knows there's already enough art online making a case that a LOT (seriously =/) of people want that.
 

Gorrath

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altnameJag said:
Christ, there isn't even a Triforce, a Zelda, or a Ganon in a lot of Legend of Zelda games.

Are people seriously suggesting that Link's gender identity is a more important plot point?
There are those that do and I'm with you, it makes no sense whatsoever. The whole Hero of Time thing is so ripe for changing details of the character that having a female Link should be trivial. I am quite baffled by the resistance to this since there isn't even the usual appeal to, "This character is a singular person with a set identity and changing that identity undermines the character, because reasons."

I mean, I want to play a Metroid game where I play as Samus' son. I want to play a Mario game where Princess' Peach and Daisy team up to save Mario and Luigi from Wendy o' Koopa. I want to play a Metal Gear game where I am a black woman who starts out as a passive spy who has to take on an ever-increasing active role as shit gets real. But changing Link to be female seems so damned benign I just don't get how on Earth its a big deal.
 

Drathnoxis

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I notice not many people have interest in responding to Jim's video on violence.

I have a question for the people who want a gender swapped Link: do you want a full gender swap for all the main characters in the game (male Zelda, female Ganon, female Tingle, etc.) or simply a gender swap for Link alone?

I might be able to get behind a full gender swap as long as it's pulled off a bit better than that terrible Adventure Time episode. Just swapping Link doesn't really seem fair to me.
 

Dizchu

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Orga777 said:
I still don't get why they haven't made a game with her as the main hero yet.
Ignorance is bliss...

What if I told you that Zelda has been the main hero in a... no, nevermind. I've said too much.