SJW Jim Sterling says Link has to be female and that violent video games promote rape culture.

Secondhand Revenant

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infohippie said:
Secondhand Revenant said:
infohippie said:
Saelune said:
If people want a female protagonist in a Zelda game...why not Zelda? Id much rather a game where Link gets captured instead of Zelda for whatever reason, and Zelda has to be the hero, instead of making a female Link.

I would rather make new good female heroes then just genderbending male ones.
I think that would be a great idea. Don't change established characters, just try making already-female ones the protagonist. That also avoids the worst side effect of gender changing a known character: Giving her a stupid name like "Linkle".
It's not like it messes with series continuity, such as it is, given how Link appears to be a different individual in each game. Reincarnation with Link as the opposite gender doesn't seem like a big deal.
Maybe not a BIG deal, but how boring! It changes nothing except to give the protagonist a stupid name and perhaps give fuel to Link/Zelda yuri fan art. Wouldn't it be vastly more interesting to give Zelda some weapons and charge her with rescuing Link?
I mean I don't see how it's a problem in any way.

As for boring, maybe. It's not exactly exciting, but it's not *bad*. And they could always drop that awful name since they won't have to distinguish between male Link and female Link in the game.

It would probably be more interesting just in general to change it up and make a game around Zelda. That said, it doesn't mean they shouldn't do female Link
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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I just can't take these tantrums over Link being male seriously. Fact of the matter is the whole debate only came about because we had Western journalists who clearly don't understand what a pretty boy is. Guess what: Japan has far different ideals of masculinity than the West does and they tend to prefer men that would be considered effeminate in the West. And the sad part is that Link is on the LOW end of the Bishounen Scale (though he has been getting prettier over the years). If anything I'd say the confusion says more about cross-cultural divide and prejudices than anything else.
 

Gorrath

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Drathnoxis said:
I notice not many people have interest in responding to Jim's video on violence.

I have a question for the people who want a gender swapped Link: do you want a full gender swap for all the main characters in the game (male Zelda, female Ganon, female Tingle, etc.) or simply a gender swap for Link alone?

I might be able to get behind a full gender swap as long as it's pulled off a bit better than that terrible Adventure Time episode. Just swapping Link doesn't really seem fair to me.
I'd want a bunch of new cast myself but I don't know why fairness would be an issue even if it was just Link. Fairness to whom? Who would be slighted by just having a female Link? I'd be as cool with a female Gannon and/or a male Zelda as I would a female Link since none of their genders/sex matter all that much, especially since each game is usually a re-telling of the tale and may or may not have any solid continuity. It'd be just as fun and valid if you had a female Link with a bunch of new characters and not just a rehash of the other main cast.

Basically, I'm up for anything so long as it's fun/well made. I don't see how any of these factors are essential parts of having a good game, they are variables that can be switched around with no hindrance of having a good time.
 

demoman_chaos

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Aren't there multiple "Links" which are really only connected by the fact they are the hero of time and just happen to look a like? Why would it be a problem if one of the Heroes of Time had a vagina instead? Hell, they would only need to change a few pronouns here and there so is little reason to not do it or have it a selectable option (particularly since Link isn't voiced).

I'm anti-SJW (Gender identity politics and "feelings" over facts is just another religious ideology based on oppression points and scoring sweet sweet twitter insults), but by the gods the excuses for not having female characters (keyword is characters, I really don't want carbon copy tropes with names but actual defined characters) in things are so damn stupid.
 

Eric the Orange

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Drathnoxis said:
I notice not many people have interest in responding to Jim's video on violence.

I have a question for the people who want a gender swapped Link: do you want a full gender swap for all the main characters in the game (male Zelda, female Ganon, female Tingle, etc.) or simply a gender swap for Link alone?

I might be able to get behind a full gender swap as long as it's pulled off a bit better than that terrible Adventure Time episode. Just swapping Link doesn't really seem fair to me.
I am curious if i had switched the title around and led with that first would that have been the thing people are talking about? I just assumed that because the title cuts off most of the people only responded to the part they saw, that being the first part.
 

Maze1125

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Link is a reincarnation in almost every game. Of course the next one could be female. There's no loss of character consistency because you're talking about a different character.

Best solution: Let the player pick the gender at the start, like lots of games do.
 

Steve the Pocket

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I just want you to know, I almost didn't click on this when I saw it in the Recent Posts bar because of the title. Because that seems to be the direction this site is headed, editor and all. I finally decided the "violent video games promote rape" part was too over the top to be serious since you'd have to have actually watched the whole episode (which I did) and somehow radically misinterpreted it to make that conclusion.

Just saying, you might be part of the problem of decent people getting sick of this site and quitting.
 

chrissx2

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Kibeth41 said:
chrissx2 said:
He has no problem with Link not being a girl. He just finds the explenation why Link can't be a girl quite stupid.
has an explanation ever been given by Nintendo as to why he can't be a girl?

I know a lot of avid Zelda fans see the name of Link as a mantle, but a lot of the more casual fans who don't look deeply into the franchise (e.g. Children) see Link as an established male character.
Well there are 2 explanations in that video :

1. It they wanted female main char, it would be easier to make Zelda main char( I find this part resonable, tho I don't know much about Zelda games), but then Link would have nothing to do (this I find a very silly reason not to do it lol) - full quote at 3:19 in the first video

2. Triforce is made up of Link, Zelda and Ganon. Changing gender of Link would distrupt the balance of the Triforce (I know nothing about Zelda lore, but I laughed a bit on this one) - quote at 5:44


Personally I really dislike when they change the race or gender of already estabilished characters, but I have nothing against creating a new chars with new story in the same universe.
 

Silvanus

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chrissx2 said:
Personally I really dislike when they change the race or gender of already estabilished characters [...]
Even if the "character" is a mantle or incarnation, like Link (or various superhero titles)?
 

chrissx2

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Silvanus said:
chrissx2 said:
Personally I really dislike when they change the race or gender of already estabilished characters [...]
Even if the "character" is a mantle or incarnation, like Link (or various superhero titles)?
Well, if it's well explained and not changed just for sake of if, then I'm fine with that.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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chrissx2 said:
Silvanus said:
chrissx2 said:
Personally I really dislike when they change the race or gender of already estabilished characters [...]
Even if the "character" is a mantle or incarnation, like Link (or various superhero titles)?
Well, if it's well explained and not changed just for sake of if, then I'm fine with that.
Why does it need an explanation necessarily?

In Zelda games Link tends to not have explanation for why he looks like the other Links. (Sometimes he is the same Link as in another game)
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Drathnoxis said:
I notice not many people have interest in responding to Jim's video on violence.

I have a question for the people who want a gender swapped Link: do you want a full gender swap for all the main characters in the game (male Zelda, female Ganon, female Tingle, etc.) or simply a gender swap for Link alone?

I might be able to get behind a full gender swap as long as it's pulled off a bit better than that terrible Adventure Time episode. Just swapping Link doesn't really seem fair to me.
Actually, I don't want a gender SWAP... I want a gender CHOICE. Sure, I'd probably still go with a male, but if silent protagonists are someone we're supposed to project ourselves on to, isn't it a bit unfair to ask gamers that don't identify as male to have to project on to a man? Especially when Link's gender has never had any REAL consequences on the story as a whole, except I guess for Hyrule Warriors.

But I would like to see Zelda take it a step further - not just gender choice, but some customization as well; Breath of the Wild seems to have armor and weapon customization! That's a step in the direction I speak of, along with other things like height, hair color (classic brown or OoT blonde?), eye color and the like. Now these changes don't have to be drastic, but some minor details and gender choice would actually help me feel more attached to Link for a change, since Link is just a vehicle for the player to explore the world anyway.

I will concede that keeping Link male-only does not cause anything to be lost, but if Aonuma ever wanted to make a good compromise, the ability to choose, like in Pokemon, would only benefit them. Sure, most of Mass Effect's players chose to play as male Shep, but the remainder that chose fem Shep were probably pretty grateful for the choice.
 

Gengisgame

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It's really pretentious "Oh you big idiots, I lied but because you weren't paying attention when I corrected the lie I FOOL YOU"


No one is obligated to go through your work every time they see it but it's idiotic to expect them not to make judgements based on statements.

If you are going to have an outright lie in your title for this reason then deal with the fallout.
 

chrissx2

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Secondhand Revenant said:
chrissx2 said:
Silvanus said:
chrissx2 said:
Personally I really dislike when they change the race or gender of already estabilished characters [...]
Even if the "character" is a mantle or incarnation, like Link (or various superhero titles)?
Well, if it's well explained and not changed just for sake of if, then I'm fine with that.
Why does it need an explanation necessarily?

In Zelda games Link tends to not have explanation for why he looks like the other Links. (Sometimes he is the same Link as in another game)
As I said in my original post, I don't know the lore of Zelda games. I've never played them. If it's ok lore-wise, than I have nothing against it.
 

Silvanus

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chrissx2 said:
Well, if it's well explained and not changed just for sake of if, then I'm fine with that.
Why does it require more explanation than the mantle staying within the same demographics? There's no real reason the mantle has to pass to people of the same kind as held it before.
 

chrissx2

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Silvanus said:
chrissx2 said:
Well, if it's well explained and not changed just for sake of if, then I'm fine with that.
Why does it require more explanation than the mantle staying within the same demographics? There's no real reason the mantle has to pass to people of the same kind as held it before.
As I sad few times already, I don't know the lore of Zelda games. If Link is not a single well estabilished character that was evolving across all those Zelda games, but just a blank sheet that you fill out in every new game, or a symbol then I don't care if he's a disonaur or a female ginger dwarf with a beard.

I would mind on other hand if they changed the gender of Lara Croft or Geralt without any explanation. If they want to make a female protagonist in Witcher world, just make a new character or let as play as Ciri - simple as that.
 

Avnger

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Kibeth41 said:
chrissx2 said:
Well there are 2 explanations in that video :

1. It they wanted female main char, it would be easier to make Zelda main char( I find this part resonable, tho I don't know much about Zelda games), but then Link would have nothing to do (this I find a very silly reason not to do it lol) - full quote at 3:19 in the first video

2. Triforce is made up of Link, Zelda and Ganon. Changing gender of Link would distrupt the balance of the Triforce (I know nothing about Zelda lore, but I laughed a bit on this one) - quote at 5:44


Personally I really dislike when they change the race or gender of already estabilished characters, but I have nothing against creating a new chars with new story in the same universe.
I feel like they offset both of those reasons by creating Linkle, a girl who looks just like Link who comes from a cuccoo farm.

But then again, Linkle had a lot of backlash for pretty stupid reasons by a lot of fans.
Eh this kind of just comes down to people (and from my experience, us gamers especially) are impossible to please. Have Zelda be the main toon, then its not a "proper Zelda game." Have Link simply be female, then its "ruining an established franchise." Have a toon like Linkle, then the devs look like they tried to shoot for the middle ground and both "sides" get angry.
 

Asita

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Silvanus said:
SixWingedAsura said:
B.) Everyone keeps ignoring Zelda herself. Because we have to genderbend instead of taking an already interesting character who could have an awesome and kickass game in her own right because someone threw a fit that Link was male for too long. I don't hate the idea of a female protagonist in Legend of Zelda, I hate trying to take a character who has been male for so long and genderbending him because, as above, "why not?" Stop ignoring Zelda!
Uhrm, I think most of the people who would like a female Link would be perfectly happy with Zelda (or Sheik) in the role of the protagonist. The request is for a female protag, not necessarily that it's Link.
I'm actually less keen on that than I am a female incarnation of Link, for roughly the same reason that I disliked seeing Yoda jump around like a wuxia jackrabbit in Attack of the Clones. Long story short is that they're characters that are meant to embody the virtue of wisdom. That doesn't preclude them from being able to kick ass, mind you, but if courage is the driving factor that pushes heroes to fight, wisdom is the opposing factor telling them to stay their hand unless absolutely necessary. Putting such a character on the frontlines seems a narrative step in the wrong direction. Conversely, a reincarnation/descendent of the embodiment of courage is a natural fit for a the heroic archetype, and neither descent nor reincarnation are gender locked.

...On a side note, I would rather like to see a bit of bait and switch, where you get a pair of siblings - one boy, one girl - one being the spitting image of a young Link...and the other being Link's reincarnation.
 

scotth266

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You know, I'm all for having this conversation. But the fact that you started it with a massive fucking bait instead of actual conversation irks me.

Some people have a hard-on for hating Sterling, what else is new. I can't be arsed to watch the Zelda video because I think it's one of the biggest fan-wank nontroversies to ever hit the gaming community with one side going "WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEE" and the other side going "LOL FUCK YOUUUUUUUU." A pox on both their houses, I say. Have the next game star Ganondorf. I'd like to see Nintendo make the holder of the Triforce of Power a good guy for once. Power doesn't have to be evil, just like courage doesn't have to be good. It'd make a nice mixup from their usual style too: instead of collecting gadgets Ganon could go around learning spells and shit like in Okami.

The video on violence was mostly Jim trying to make an entire video out of one sentence (that sentence being: I like violence in videogames, but wish the industry had more variety). I think that's fair. I can get why someone who doesn't like violence might not enjoy a lot of games. But I feel Jim's video kind of misses the mark on why people dislike critics of video game violence.

A lot of these culture critics (particularly the usual suspects at Kotaku/Polygon etc) start going full Jack Thompson by implying that the violent games shouldn't be made/advertised/whatever for the sake of some abstract social good. I can understand if you think the industry has a lot of violence and you want some more variety (though I'd disagree: I think the industry has tons of variety). But if your first impulse is to shit on the thing that people like and imply that it's immature, or has even the vaguest connection to the Orlando shootings/"gun culture", then I hope your car gets buried in pigeon shit. At that point, the people involved are no longer critics in my mind. The word critic implies a sort of honesty and integrity that these people lack - they're more in line with the gossips who lurk around spewing mean shit at people to see what makes them angry.