Skirmish/Battalion games

[SckizoBoy]

Granted, now is not the most appropriate time to promote this sort of game given it's best played over the board and in person, but since the prevailing sort of tabletop game played here is the RPG sort, just wanted to ask about how much of the Escapist user-base is into skirmish/battalion type tabletop games?

What do you like about them (or what deters you, as it goes)?

If you do play them, which do you play? GW or more niche titles (Wyrd/Steamforged/Privateer/Corvus Belli published ones perhaps)?

 

[Saint of M]

I have done a couple for Warhammer as Imperial Guard and Tau, and have mixed opinions.

Did a few skirmish level games for Kings of war which was fun.

And did a while back some skirmish level with dark elves against daemons.

 

[Agema]

Granted, now is not the most appropriate time to promote this sort of game given it's best played over the board and in person, but since the prevailing sort of tabletop game played here is the RPG sort, just wanted to ask about how much of the Escapist user-base is into skirmish/battalion type tabletop games?

What do you like about them (or what deters you, as it goes)?

If you do play them, which do you play? GW or more niche titles (Wyrd/Steamforged/Privateer/Corvus Belli published ones perhaps)?

I've always enjoyed these, but have lacked a social group to play them with since my twenties. That therefore is the main problem.

These days a lot of this stuff has moved online too: smaller online publishers like Lock'n'Load, Matrix Games and Slitherine Games (now merged), and Shrapnel Games often publish digital wargames which are direct copies of the tabletop variants, identical rules and all. AI is rarely good, unfortunately - once you've twigged the exploits, things the AI deals with badly, the challenge is over. I like a lot of the square / hex wargames as a legacy of my time with tabletop board gaming. Some more beefed up stuff with extra complexity enabled by having a PC exists like Field Of Glory are around too.

I played Warhammer (didn't everyone) in the early 90s but eventually tired of the crummy rules and moved to Fantasy General (from some ex-GW staff) as an improvement. Long since out of print, you might find an online resource or second hand copy. I also did Napoleonic tabletop wargaming in my 20s, but I've long since forgotten what the system we used was.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Used to be into 40k, still like the older models, but the new stuff is just meh.

 

[Satinavian]

I startet with Mordheim and eventually moved to Warhammer fantasy, which i played for more than a decade. I had mostly Dwarves, Vampire counts, Khemri and Greenskin.

Then i had to move again and had no opponents anymore.

Then WFB died.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Used to be into 40k, still like the older models, but the new stuff is just meh.

That's a very rare opinion, and it's a surprise to hear it. Not that you aren't allowed to hold it, but the general consensus among my gaming groups is that because of the transfer to hard plastic and digital sculpting, the model quality and possibly detail make new release models phenomenally good. They're increasingly derivative (more so for WH40K and Stormcast AoS, but the rest of AoS is seriously on point), and lost a lot of the 90's goofiness (which is a sort of rose-tinted glasses sort of thing anyway for the most part), but I can't really say that the new models are any worse. Honestly, however, I do personally prefer the weight of metal in my hand and during gameplay (which explains why I play other games, but never mind -.- ).

Or is it that aforementioned character/quirkiness that you preferred (like the old Noisemarine who basically carried a weaponised guitar etc.)?

Or are you referring to the rules?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Should have phrased that better, I like the old models, but the new stuff (meaning 40k in general) is meh.

Now, part of my fondness for older models is probably nostalgia for the good old days of 2nd ed*, and that they aren't easy to get anymore.

But I do think (some of them) hold up today, and are better than (some) modern stuff, at least in certain ways. They have lots of technically better models, with lots more plastic options allowing for conversions in a way the old one or two piece metal models really made hard.

But there's some problems. For example, the new Necromunda Escher are just awful compared to the old metal ones. You do have more options when putting them together, but the are wearing high heels and are doing stupid ballerina tip toe poses that means the models just don't attach to the base the way the old slotta base metal ones did. Also, IMHO, the old ones looked more like people you'd expect to see in a gunfight (albeit at a weird punk rock concert), no stupid high heels or whatever.

OTOH, really like the new Orlock, and with not too much work the bits are compatible with Cadian bits, so I've got most of a IG platoon of them. More or that, please. That's not true of a lot of the new plastics, they don't have seperate arms and torsos the way they used to. The Tempestus Scions do, but at an angle meaning you can't do arm swaps with more or less any human figures easily if you want them to hold a weapon with both hands.

Mainly, though...it's like how the new Star Wars has more advanced special effects that it uses in worse ways than the original, the old models (often) did a job job with the technology they had, the new ones don't seem to have the same artfulness behind them. And stuff like the Primaris Marines look cool, except they are in a game where the look of marines has been established for ages and they aren't that. Star Trek had the same problem, I believe.

* Having tried playing a small game of 2nd ed vs myself not long ago, yeah, there were some issues I'd forgotten because I'd been more used to the way they worked in Necromunda scale battles. Having a squad with 5 different types of guns firing is a pain, and the close combat rules don't specify what happens to members of a squad that's in combat but who aren't in base to base with anyone during their turn.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Now, part of my fondness for older models is probably nostalgia for the good old days of 2nd ed*, and that they aren't easy to get anymore.

That's fair. They had a certain style back then that they pretty much completely abandoned going into 4th which is when I started to play 40K. Personally I prefer it, as there's a bit of thematic dissonance given the grimdark to the max nature of the setting/game, so I prefer it to be narm-y from the grimdark perspective. As to the models themselves, I suppose it depends on faction a lot of the time since they have their own aesthetic quirks. As a predominantly xenos player, early Dark Eldar looked ridiculous compared to how they are now (a view that is pretty universal, don't know what your take is on that since most of your examples are Imperium). I would concede, thinking on it, that Marines (well, their models) lost a lot of their character over the years because of the apparent need to be taken seriously despite the narm-factor so them being 'meh' is pretty understandable. Great detail, but it's kinda shallow (which is your point, I think?), though I will say that the special characters (i.e. Chaplains/Librarians) are pretty damned good. Still, 'combat heels/boob armour' do annoy me (to varying degrees, like on Lelith Hesperax it's supposed to be the point, however silly that point is), but they seem pretty much a staple of the hobby nowadays (go have a look at Raging Heroes and roll your eyes until you snap your optic nerves), not defending it or anything, just stating it. But as a whole, I think GW's sculpt output has been getting better over the years (have you seen the Necrons in the new starter kit?).

 

[Thaluikhain]

As a predominantly xenos player, early Dark Eldar looked ridiculous compared to how they are now (a view that is pretty universal, don't know what your take is on that since most of your examples are Imperium).

I don't think the early DE stuff was bad, but there have been some marked improvements over the years, yeah. Too much random sticky out things IMHO, but I like being able to mix Dark Elf stuff in with Dark Eldar. The old incubi were alright, but dull. Don't really like the new mandrakes, though.

As for the Necrons, yeah, some nice stuff coming out, though, IMHO, it doesn't all fit the feel of the Necrons. OTOH, the feel of the Necrons kept changing, and not always for the best, so that'd maybe not a bad thing.

I also don't like what they've done to the orks, the vehicles ended up looking generically unique. In the old days, you'd get a basic ork trukk and stick various bits on to make it different. Later on, the "different" parts, while technically well done, came with the model, so your unique ork trukk was the same as the unique ork trukks the other players had.

 

[Agema]

Should have phrased that better, I like the old models, but the new stuff (meaning 40k in general) is meh.

I had (technically, still do have tucked away in boxes somewhere) an old 2nd/3rd ed. WFB Dwarf army. About the time I stopped playing, they were redesigning the figurines moving into 4th edition such that my dwarfs now look like dwarf dwarfs, because the new models in the 90s were considerably chunkier.

I think about the same time army sizes declined and WFB became (even more) hero-centred. Heroes were always OP in WFB, but my feeling is that in 4th/5th ed the armies turned into just so much chaff to make up the numbers whilst the heroes decided the outcome. I always preferred the idea that my army was an actual army, not a reconniasance force: when you read a White Dwarf battle report on "one of the greatest" Imperial armies ever raised and it turns out to be composed of ~110-120 figurines, it's just embarrassing.

 

[Trunkage]

I have an imperial guard and tyranid army from 2nd edition days. Also had Necromunda and probably played that the most. It was hard to play because the closest person interested was an hour away, Haven’t touched them in 20 years.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Well, I played 40k back in Rogue Trader days, plus a bit of WHFB 3rd edition. Dropped it when second ed came out and everything went over to the more 90's painting and design style.

Not sure if you count epic as skirmish exactly but I played 2nd ed epic too

I dipped in and out from very near the end of 5th ed (which I bought about 6th months before 6th came out, Cheers GW). I think I bought 8th and a couple if codices but never played IIRC. I'm currently selling off my pile of shame barring all the old RT stuff. Keeping the painted stuff though.

(go have a look at Raging Heroes and roll your eyes until you snap your optic nerves),

Do you like 40K? Do you like TITS???!!! Then do we have the product for YOU!!!

I liked some of the miniatures from other games, most notably Infinity, but that's mainly because I liked Masamune Shirow comics when I was a kid.

 

[Agema]

Still, 'combat heels/boob armour' do annoy me (to varying degrees, like on Lelith Hesperax it's supposed to be the point, however silly that point is), but they seem pretty much a staple of the hobby nowadays (go have a look at Raging Heroes and roll your eyes until you snap your optic nerves)

Towards the end of my tabletop days, I used to buy miniatures and paint them for leisure, so I bought them just for how interesting they were. I saw this totally amazing miniature in a multipack, some mage figurine with specs and a candle on his hat. The multipack also contained the most soft-porntastic spear-wielding barbarian woman, who... let's just say she had an unathletic physique and that "chainmail bikini" would be a gross exaggeration for what she was wearing.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Towards the end of my tabletop days, I used to buy miniatures and paint them for leisure, so I bought them just for how interesting they were. I saw this totally amazing miniature in a multipack, some mage figurine with specs and a candle on his hat. The multipack also contained the most soft-porntastic spear-wielding barbarian woman, who... let's just say she had an unathletic physique and that "chainmail bikini" would be a gross exaggeration for what she was wearing.

While I wasn't old enough at the time, that was when the miniatures market had the tastes and intentions of the Boris Vallejo school of character design but none of the technological know-how of how to make it look good!

 

[AnxietyProne]

Damn, old thread here...

Anyway, my favorite all time skirmish...or hell, favorite all time mini's wargame period came in the form of this 'zine style system that you could only get at wargaming conventions called Hell By Daylight. It was made to cover WW2 to Vietnam and it just did everything RIGHT. A soldier's effectiveness was based more on their nerve and training, the morale system was effective but one you could quickly pick up on, dice rolls were kept to a sensible amount, and the key to winning was just plain keeping your troops willing to fight in the first place. I regret ever losing that office stapled little collection of ink..