Skullgirls Dev Dismisses Cries of Sexism

[Ravidrath]

So I'm the guy Eurogamer interviewed, and I definitely feel that what I said was taken out of context.

I was trying to present the entire thing as being very gray, and he just picked the things that made me look bad. I definitely said them, but I don't think they had that tone in the conversation.

And, yeah, it was really more of a conversation than an interview - note that we're basically seeing one side of a conversation.

Either wait, I guess I stepped in it.

We've tried contacting Eurogamer about doing a follow-up preview about the actual game, but apparently they have no plans to. The guy saw our presentation and played for a while and clearly enjoyed himself, but decided to run with this "controversial" subject over giving their readers information about what he played?

Oh well.

Really? Is this game worth caring either way? Sounds like the dev is trying to get free publicity. And if you don't have any real controversy, make one by denying everything.

If I were trying to get free publicity, this is certainly not the way I would try to do it.

This was kind of a final "Oh, and what are your thoughts on the reaction of the U.S. media to Skullgirls? I saw complaints about the art being risque in a 1Up preview" conversation after an hour of play.

 

[LilithSlave]

I've already mentioned Raiden in the thread before. Things like that are an exception to the rule and niche and not the norm. Again, this is mostly ridiculed in the gaming industry, and it doesn't happen all that much.

While like others have stated, half naked women and jiggle physics have become a staple of the fighting game genre. Women are still a lot, lot more sexualized than men, and males created with a female audience in mind are the exception to the norm, not the norm.

Tell me, how many games released this year can you claim have a heterosexual female audience in mind with their character designs? How many games released this year have a heterosexual male audience in mind with their character designs? The disparity is quite obvious.

 

[loudestmute]

When Skullgirls was first announced, my thought was "Oh, sweet! A fighter from the Guilty Gear/Blazblue school of animation, and cheaper than one of Capcom's semi-annual roster updates!"

When I saw this story: "Oh, great. The lead animator is female, so that blocks all accusations of sexism like a citronella candle to a mosquito infestation."

Admittedly, it's a pretty weak defense, but if the dev head keeps putting out press releases like this on a regular basis, we'll know how close the game is to being finished.

 

[Kopikatsu]

My reaction when I saw that video wasn't "this is sexist", but rather "why would anyone play as any other character than the cat girl with an attachable head?"

Because there is this woman.


Best specials ever.

 

[sanzo]

I'll gladly take it over this:

Does this mean you don't like first person shooters just like me?

Oh God, I love you.

Haven't played one since Halflife 2, no CoDs, no battlefields, no halos. I mainly play rpgs and fighters with a bit of action games and random anime-stuff in between.

So exactly like me then? That is a bit weird.

People on the internet who dislike FPS's? What an unprecedented event!

A person who dislikes FPS's and mainly plays RPGS, fighting games, and a handful of action titles. Along with a few titles like Catherine. So it is a tad bit weird.

And things like Disgaea and Okami...I'm right ain't I?


Oh and I hate racing games, they're worse than FPSs for me, utterly boring.

Can... can I high-five you? Both of you?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I'll gladly take it over this:

Does this mean you don't like first person shooters just like me?

Oh God, I love you.

Haven't played one since Halflife 2, no CoDs, no battlefields, no halos. I mainly play rpgs and fighters with a bit of action games and random anime-stuff in between.

So exactly like me then? That is a bit weird.

People on the internet who dislike FPS's? What an unprecedented event!

A person who dislikes FPS's and mainly plays RPGS, fighting games, and a handful of action titles. Along with a few titles like Catherine. So it is a tad bit weird.

And things like Disgaea and Okami...I'm right ain't I?


Oh and I hate racing games, they're worse than FPSs for me, utterly boring.

Can... can I high-five you? Both of you?

Only if you can best my vassals you puny dog....and don't try to tick me, no angel wears a red bathing suit...that won't work twice on me!

Ladies and gentlemen, this project is spearheaded by legendary "big guy" fighting game player Mike "Mike Z" Zaimont. I'm pretty sure he has a bit more sense than to make whatever this fuckstick is claiming he's making.

Who is "Mike Z" you ask? Why, he made this little piece of awesomeness here!

Hah, I already mentioned him a while back but some video evidence is always nice. You can tell how that girl with the grab-hat is all kinds of Mike-z stuff, half Potemkin, half Tager .

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

So I'm the guy Eurogamer interviewed, and I definitely feel that what I said was taken out of context.

I was trying to present the entire thing as being very gray, and he just picked the things that made me look bad. I definitely said them, but I don't think they had that tone in the conversation.

And, yeah, it was really more of a conversation than an interview - note that we're basically seeing one side of a conversation.

Either wait, I guess I stepped in it.

We've tried contacting Eurogamer about doing a follow-up preview about the actual game, but apparently they have no plans to. The guy saw our presentation and played for a while and clearly enjoyed himself, but decided to run with this "controversial" subject over giving their readers information about what he played?

Oh well.

Really? Is this game worth caring either way? Sounds like the dev is trying to get free publicity. And if you don't have any real controversy, make one by denying everything.

If I were trying to get free publicity, this is certainly not the way I would try to do it.

This was kind of a final "Oh, and what are your thoughts on the reaction of the U.S. media to Skullgirls? I saw complaints about the art being risque in a 1Up preview" conversation after an hour of play.

From what I read, you were equally as surprised that a weak line such as "a girl animated it" worked on the guy who confronted you as everyone else, it didn't sound like you actually used the excuse straight-faced. Yes, the article tries to pass it off like you did but I think most people who actually read it will know better and you really shouldn't care about the rest cause they already forgot about any of this anyways.


Oh and as for that Catgirl...that's basically Buggy the clown from Onepiece, right? Please tell me you had at least a bit of inspiration from that.

 

[NewEnclave]

My Question to all is this:

If this game is sexist, then why was the Arcana Heart series (with the exception of 2 because of the whole 'bad porting' thing) released stateside?

 

[Char-Nobyl]

ah, the good ole "I have a black friend so racism is ok" argument. Didn't make sense then, doesn't make sense now.

...wait, what? How is that applicable? He isn't claiming that the game isn't sexist because he knows women. He's saying that the parts of the game people think are sexist were made by a woman. If the NAACP had leaped on the "U mad bro" thing a few weeks back and been informed that it had been black students who made the sign, that might be an apt comparison.

Being "attractive", is subjective.

Can we just call them "curvy" and "skinny" instead?

...look, mate, that's got a lot of unfortunate implications built into it. One is the implied, "She's not attractive, she's just skinny" remark, which would suggest that men are somehow mistaken for being attracted to slender women, and the other would be the unflattering implications that could be drawn about you. I'll be the first to say that I have no basis to claim that you're unattractive, but when you're trying to suggest that the aforementioned qualities don't have to do with being attractive...it's not difficult to draw conclusions and pass judgments.

Because I'm sure they have totally deep and complex personalities and emotional story-arcs...

Am I, as a feminist, offended? No.
Do I think that just because it's a woman doing the animation? No.

Women are quite cabable of being sexist as well, and towards their own sex as well, if they are unable to get away from the mindset that objectifies women and portrays them as weak and dependant of men.

Reminds me of Clayton Bigsby, the blind white supremacist. That was a good bit.

I mean, the writer of Twilight is a woman, and that's horrible sexist crap. Some women fantasise about being weak and taken care of by men or manipulating them.

Meh. I think enough crimes were committed by that series that adding "sexist" to the list would be like stalling the sentencing of a serial killer to try him for unpaid parking tickets.

Also that game is question seems rather honest about it's tone and not particularly serious. But how the sexuality is portrayed is difficult to say from just that trailer, and whether they are strong characters or not, and whether they are just objects.

Talking as a someone who is attracted to women, I don't find scantily clad bimbos attractive. I want my female characters with personality, conflicts and intelligence, thank you very much.

But isn't that assuming the 'bimbo' part when all you really have is the 'scantily clad' part? We've only really seen a gameplay trailer, and even if it is a fighting game, that doesn't give us much ground to assume that all the characters will be 2D personality-wise.

EDIT:

Also it amuses me this is a news article of someone dismissing 'cries of sexism'. What cries of sexism? I haven't heard any complaints against this game? And now we have a thread full of people complaining about people complaining about this because people are so intolerant about... something.

Well, there's the people that the interviewee was talking about. They're never given names, but he certainly talks about them, and they were apparently strong enough in their beliefs to say, to his face, that they thought his project was sexist.

So many people righteously coming to defend teh boobies in this game from the fun-hating feminists...

Really? Is this game worth caring either way? Sounds like the dev is trying to get free publicity. And if you don't have any real controversy, make one by denying everything.

Oh, come on. Now it's a publicity conspiracy? Now we're taking leaps of logic that'd get the gold in the long-jump at the Metaphor Olympics.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

My Question to all is this:

If this game is sexist, then why was the Arcana Heart series (with the exception of 2 because of the whole 'bad porting' thing) released stateside?

It was a PSN game, meaning mommies and kiddies wouldn't see it on a store and cause a ruckus. It was quite niche too which means all the big game-hating news things didn't take notice of it and being a small profile game it didn't become nearly popular enough to make it worth it for opponents of gaming to attack it.


When you take all of these factors out, there's no reason to not release games over here. It's not like they released the Japanese Disk version of the game which came with a boobie-mouspad and some other less...not-sexist stuff.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

My Question to all is this:

If this game is sexist, then why was the Arcana Heart series (with the exception of 2 because of the whole 'bad porting' thing) released stateside?

It was a PSN game, meaning mommies and kiddies wouldn't see it on a store and cause a ruckus. It was quite niche too which means all the big game-hating news things didn't take notice of it and being a small profile game it didn't become nearly popular enough to make it worth it for opponents of gaming to attack it.


When you take all of these factors out, there's no reason to not release games over here. It's not like they released the Japanese Disk version of the game which came with a boobie-mouspad and some other less...not-sexist stuff.

Actually they released it on disc, with the boobie-mousepad as part of the game's collector's edition in Europe. I guess they're just more chill about that sort of thing here. (I facepalmed none the less)

As to the game itself, I'm still on the fence about it. To this day America still hasn't been able to produce a single fighting game that could actually stand up against its Japanese counterparts (even back in ye olde days Mortal Kombat was poorly balanced and pretty clunky in its controls), and the fact that a tournament gamer is at the heart of it isn't exactly comforting when I know that Capcom looked towards EVO players for advice on both SSF2T HD and MvC3 and both came out worse than their predecessors because of it so... eh. Mike Z's idea of fixing combo problems by making a system that detects infinites and then giving you a free burst just feels like lazy game design to me. As opposed to fine tuning the game and the characters to ensure it simply is impossible to perform infinites. So yes, sounds to me he's not even trying to balance the roster and having absolute blind faith in his infinite detector.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

My Question to all is this:

If this game is sexist, then why was the Arcana Heart series (with the exception of 2 because of the whole 'bad porting' thing) released stateside?

It was a PSN game, meaning mommies and kiddies wouldn't see it on a store and cause a ruckus. It was quite niche too which means all the big game-hating news things didn't take notice of it and being a small profile game it didn't become nearly popular enough to make it worth it for opponents of gaming to attack it.


When you take all of these factors out, there's no reason to not release games over here. It's not like they released the Japanese Disk version of the game which came with a boobie-mouspad and some other less...not-sexist stuff.

Actually they released it on disc, with the boobie-mousepad as part of the game's collector's edition in Europe. I guess they're just more chill about that sort of thing here. (I facepalmed none the less)

As to the game itself, I'm still on the fence about it. To this day America still hasn't been able to produce a single fighting game that could actually stand up against its Japanese counterparts (even back in ye olde days Mortal Kombat was poorly balanced and pretty clunky in its controls), and the fact that a tournament gamer is at the heart of it isn't exactly comforting when I know that Capcom looked towards EVO players for advice on both SSF2T HD and MvC3 and both came out worse than their predecessors because of it so... eh. Mike Z's idea of fixing combo problems by making a system that detects infinites and then giving you a free burst just feels like lazy game design to me. As opposed to fine tuning the game and the characters to ensure it simply is impossible to perform infinites. So yes, sounds to me he's not even trying to balance the roster and having absolute blind faith in his infinite detector.

It's not any different from things that have ukemi/emergency rolls like BB or GG though. If a combo bluebeats you get to roll out of it. Does the fact that it's a burst and not a tech somehow make it more abraisive to you or something? Just because it's merely for infinite combos and not dropped combos doesn't mean anything, if you drop a combo you can still go on infinitely in other games if the person doesn't tech, that's the same deal really.

 

[Danakir]

But hey, how would you like to see this all of the time in your video games?

I hate to say this, but isn't it kind of sexist to imply that no guys could actually like this kind of depiction? :/

(And to answer your question: Yes)

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

But hey, how would you like to see this all of the time in your video games?

I hate to say this, but isn't it kind of sexist to imply that no guys could actually like this kind of depiction? :/

(And to answer your question: Yes)

I think she meant that most typical FPS-oriented guys wouldn't. Us anime-liking weird fighting game players don't count.

 

[Lieju]

Also that game is question seems rather honest about it's tone and not particularly serious. But how the sexuality is portrayed is difficult to say from just that trailer, and whether they are strong characters or not, and whether they are just objects.

Talking as a someone who is attracted to women, I don't find scantily clad bimbos attractive. I want my female characters with personality, conflicts and intelligence, thank you very much.

But isn't that assuming the 'bimbo' part when all you really have is the 'scantily clad' part? We've only really seen a gameplay trailer, and even if it is a fighting game, that doesn't give us much ground to assume that all the characters will be 2D personality-wise.

And I specifically said that from that trailer I can't say much about their characters. But I'm kinda sceptical about how well written it will be in general, just given the usual level of video-game writing.
My comment about not finding bimbos attractive was just about attractiveness in general.

EDIT:

Also it amuses me this is a news article of someone dismissing 'cries of sexism'. What cries of sexism? I haven't heard any complaints against this game? And now we have a thread full of people complaining about people complaining about this because people are so intolerant about... something.

Well, there's the people that the interviewee was talking about. They're never given names, but he certainly talks about them, and they were apparently strong enough in their beliefs to say, to his face, that they thought his project was sexist.

You can find people objecting to anything, it doesn't mean it's news. Or that people are objecting to those objections.
This article could have been titled and worded better, the way it's now just makes it sound like there is some controversy about this game, which I haven't even heard before this.
It's like it's a response to something.

So many people righteously coming to defend teh boobies in this game from the fun-hating feminists...

Really? Is this game worth caring either way? Sounds like the dev is trying to get free publicity. And if you don't have any real controversy, make one by denying everything.

Oh, come on. Now it's a publicity conspiracy? Now we're taking leaps of logic that'd get the gold in the long-jump at the Metaphor Olympics.

Conspiracy? Hardly. But they have got free publicity with this either way.
Why do you think those people give interviews in the first place?
To get the word out about their game, and if they say things that people will talk about, even better.

We've tried contacting Eurogamer about doing a follow-up preview about the actual game, but apparently they have no plans to. The guy saw our presentation and played for a while and clearly enjoyed himself, but decided to run with this "controversial" subject over giving their readers information about what he played?

Oh well.

Really? Is this game worth caring either way? Sounds like the dev is trying to get free publicity. And if you don't have any real controversy, make one by denying everything.

If I were trying to get free publicity, this is certainly not the way I would try to do it.

This was kind of a final "Oh, and what are your thoughts on the reaction of the U.S. media to Skullgirls? I saw complaints about the art being risque in a 1Up preview" conversation after an hour of play.

The article makes no references to any specific instances, and kinda makes it sound like there was one anonymous person complaining...

Either way, this strikes me as a manufactured controversy where there is none.
Well, such is journalism and PR.

 

[kane.malakos]

ITT: People completely miss the point of the entire interview.

"Our characters are strong, powerful women who happen to be attractive," does not equal "it's coincidental that they're attractive." It equals "the fact that they are sexy is not the only character trait they have"

And as for the whole "a woman animated it so its okay" argument, that's not what I got from that interview at all. It more came across as a joke on his part. Hell, he said that he found it hilarious when saying it made the other guy think the game was okay.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

How can it be sexist? It's super tough women fighting. Sexist would be if they came out to fight and then a man came in and said 'Let the men handle this, baby.'

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

They got a woman to do it. Are people still using that defense?

How is that different from "my best mate's sister's hairdresser's cousin is an X, and once told me that Y isn't offensive to X"?

If men did it, it is male exploitation of female sexuality.
If a woman did it, it is, at worst, a woman exploiting her own sexuality.