Skullgirls Dev Dismisses Cries of Sexism

[MisterDyslexo]

*shaking my head*

There is so much wrong with what he said what people are saying about him, and whats in this thread.

Titties, so what? I think the biggest way to make a counter-point would point out the hypocrisy in that most of those people wouldn't mind a fighting game character with bigger muscles and more abs.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

First, what was his immediate defense to the person who accused him of sexism? "But a woman did it." Seeing as how that was his first response, and he spoke about it twice in five points, that counts as stock in my book.

This part:

"Our characters are strong, powerful women who happen to be attractive," Bartholow said in an interview with Eurogamer. "We don't have anyone like [Street Fighter's] Cammy, who wraps her legs around your leg then beats you senseless with her Kegel muscles - or whatever is going on in that Cammy Super. There was a very conscious decision not to do things like that. None of the characters use their sexuality in any aggressive way. It's just a thing they happen to be."

Unless the chronology of statements got switched around during reporting, that'd be the first defense, or at least the first one the article provided.

Second, you own it by not coming up with dumb points to defend it, i.e. "But a woman drew it," and "they just so happen to be attractive." As many people have pointed out and explained in further detail in the thread, both of these are illogical points.

Yeah, but how is that a "dumb" point? A woman did draw it. If that's addressing most of the sexism complaints, then it stands to reason that people were taking issue with it because they thought men were drawing them.

I'm not sure about the objections to the "they just so happen to be attractive" argument, either. The point was that whether or not something is 'sexist' isn't supposed to be determined by the gender ratio of characters. The determining factors are supposed to be whether or not the gender is being overly sexualized (sp). I mean, judging from the gameplay trailer, I've seen far, far more suggestive stuff in Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, but do those games get a pass because they have shirtless men around, too?

Look, is it so implausible to make a (currently) all-female fighting game without believing that women are an inferior gender at best or objects at worst?

Third, I wasn't trying to lead anyone. That would imply that I personally thought it was offensive fan service. Reread my article and you'll see that I clearly do not.

Not sure what to tell you, man. Between the ending-question and the arguments that his rebuttals were flimsy...it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to place you on one side of the debate.

But whatever. I just thought that it might've been an internal bias leaking into the article, but I'm not going to argue about your intentions. Because, quite frankly, you know them better than me, and I've no reason to disbelieve what you say about them.

I do like anyone who uses that objection picture though, so we can still be friends.

Damnit. I want to keep up the joke while giving a positive response, but that would need some sort of...reverse...objection...thing.

Wait a moment! This is a job for...Bizarro-Wright: Awful Attorney!

 

[Something Amyss]

Other than Rapelay, when was the last time you heard something like this happen with a Japanese hentai game?

You mean when have I heard something like this happen with games specifically designed to be pornographic and released to a niche market?

Wow...Equating that to skullgirls, a game slated for open release....

..Yeah...

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Well a game of nothing but cartoon women fighting makes me suspicious of it, mainly due to previous examples; after watching the trailer, I really don't see much wrong with it. Sure it's all women, but I don't see anything different then and all male fighting game. And while they are all rather attractive, the same could be said about a lot of male characters with their chiseled abs and handsome faces. And it never really seems to bring up the sexuality. Sure they look good, but they just brutally beat on each other. Maybe I haven't seen enough, but this game might just be fine, despite it's suspect subject.

 

[Something Amyss]

Also, don't hear anyone complaining about how Gears of War has zero tolerable characters.

Yeah, me either.

So long as I plug my ears and say "lalalalala im not listening!"

I mean, it was even complained about on this very site....

So...Uhhh...Carry on?

 

[Robert Ewing]

Hmm. Cries of sexism seems to be an accurate way to put it. Everyone cries when a woman is in a video game depicted as being so much as physically fit.

Soon it will be sexist to depict a woman with big breasts in any form of media, then it will be sexist to depict a female chromosome in a bad light, then it will be sexist for women to even utter the female chromosome full stop.

Get over it, so what if they have big jugs? If you don't like the positively disgusting way a woman with big tits are being depicted as strong warrior women, then fucking look away and cry about some real issue about sexism, and stop ruining everyone's fun.

 

[Olivia Faraday]

And the same dried up feminazis who cried sexism to this. Won't lift a finger or even think about crying sexism at games like Gears of War for depicting men to be steroidal monster muscletanks. Hypocrisy tastes so good.

Sorry, I just have to comment on this. I don't think Skullgirls looks in any way offensive and I was a big defender of Sucker Punch, so I'm not flipping my tits over every tiny perceived slight, but I'm definitely a feminist and this exact argument drives me nuts.

The dudes in Gears of War? Yeah. They're idealized. ... for men. I'd say about one in five -- maybe as few as one in ten -- women would say the standard vidya game action hero is attractive. That's the issue here. Women in most western video games are idealized to be attractive to men's standards. Men in most western video games are idealized to be attractive to ... men's standards.

In Japanese games, the women are still idealized for men. But the men are idealized for women, instead of other men, and you can sure bet men ***** about that. Whine, whine, bishies. Why are there are all these androgynous teenage boys in this game. Whine whine. I can't relate to any of these pretty boys. Where are the real men. THAT'S the equivalent to the male gaze women are subjected to in games, and it bugs you guys as much as it bugs us.

Again, I have no problem with Skullgirls. I think the art looks sassy and cute and sexy without being tacky. I don't even really have a problem with western male character design, to be honest, I know it's not made to be appealing to me, whatever. I just have a problem with this silly argument. There are plenty of women complaining about sexism in male character design. Because it IS sexist. Just not in the way you think it is.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

And portraying all men as meatheads who think about tits and ripping people's intestines out isn't in any way sexist at all?

 

[Kurt Horsting]

I don't see the point of these complaints. Are the people who are complaining about this game suggesting that being sexy is sexist? This is stupid. Why is it wrong for a character to be designed to be sexy? Men in games are designed to be appealing characters to look up to. It works the same for women. Women want to be sexy, and having a character that is sexy is more appealing then one who isn't. Its not fucking rocket science people.
Another thing that bothers me about this is that it seems that most of the complaints are from men who are "offended" by this or think they are offended. This is simply another version of empowering a character. The best part is how the characters are designed is defined outside of their sexuality or lack-there-of. Unlike most fighting game "sexy" characters (Cammy, Mai, Ivy, the female cast of doa, you get the point) where they are all trying out different whore outfits to see who is the most shameless poster-child of fan service. Sexiness is not the problem, how they use sexiness is the issue. These guys are using it right. It adds to the character, it does not define the character.

Now if Skullgirls made its point to be that women were inherently inferior to men, told women to stop their educations, stop their careers, get a man to provide for them, and get back in the kitchen where they belong... That would be sexist (extremely yes, but you get the point). Or go the Call of Duty route, as in they don't fucking exist (except the chopper pilot or that one copy/pasted female used in no Russian). Obviously this game is not doing either of those retarded things, So Fuck off internet! The people behind this game do not hate women. Got be stupid somewhere else.

 

[Arrogancy]

This game doesn't seem particularly sexist. So the women are attractive, and, admittedly, you can occasionally, if you're really looking hard enough, see some of their panties. Big freakin' deal. This post probably does little more than reiterate what has already been said, but I feel compelled to post something. Personally, I was more concerned with crazy, dismembered cat-woman than anything particularly offensive about the trailer.

 

[LilithSlave]

I completely agree with that developer. It isn't sexism if all they're doing is choosing to make their characters highly attractive. It's just white knights QQing.

First of all, big boobs and tiny waist is just one standard of beauty, and if it's the dominant one, that's wrong. There are plenty of fat fetishists and other types. If Tekken had Bob, there's no reason fighting games can't have a heavier lady or two.

Furthermore, let me get this straight, it's okay that women in video games all almost always have to fit a very specific ideal of beauty and fit the "male gaze", but male characters can be as gruesome as they like?

Or do you want to have to put up with sexualizing men as much as women are sexualized? All right, just imagine most video games being designed with Kingdom Hearts fangirls in mind. Do you want to put up with that? I certainly hope so. If you weren't comfortable with the typical jRPG protagonist, hoo, you're not going to be comfortable with this. Because that so called "androgynous male" that people often cite as the reason "Final Fantasy sucks and always has sucked", that's called a bishounen, and it's chosen largely to appeal to the female audience. And this isn't just something that appeals in Asia...

For things to be "made even" in terms of objectification, you'd go from a handful of Japanese games starring bishounen males, to a market saturation full of such characters put into oddly homoerotic situations and having ice cream fall on their chest or torso for no good reason at all.

Because right now, that's not what's happening. That's being ridiculed. While as others have stated, sexualized women are the common things. In Japanese fighters, in Western fighters, in Japanese general games, in Western general games, and if someone criticizes that, people get up in arms and scream "feminazi!". But as soon as a single male character exists with women slightly in mind, lots of whiny guys go crazy that the guy looks too "beta male" and "I don't want to play as a fag".

I'm also getting sick of the excuses made as "oh, but look at how muscular the male characters are, I'm not as muscular as that!". Completely ignorant of male privilege and how such things are a part of that. Poor men, having to live up to images of male supremacy.

It doesn't matter if this is a problem in other fighting games. It doesn't matter if sex is okay. It doesn't matter if male characters have unusual figures, too. Male privilege is a big problem within the video game industry.

And a little bit of criticism is not going to hurt that. We can still buy, play, and enjoy the game while acknowledging that it adds to a kind of problematic pile and double standard.

I'm going to buy and play this game. I also acknowledge however, that this does add to the pile of women who are designed this way with the male gaze in mind, and the disparity of female characters that are sexualized, to normal ones, and to male characters depicted in a similar fashion, which is kinda problematic.

People need to understand, that when we talk about things like sexism, racism, heterosexism, xenophobia, and other things today, we're not always just talking about individual behavior, but also social norms which prop up privilege and unempower minorities.

And portraying all men as meatheads who think about tits and ripping people's intestines out isn't in any way sexist at all?

Oh, it is!

 

[Micalas]

Make a game with ugly female protagonists, don't sell any copies of your game.

And people wonder why people still make a fuss about sexism in video games, this is sexism as a social problem right here.

Not buying a game full of ugly women is not sexism. Just like not finding women of a race different than your own is racist. If anything, people need to stop whining about nothing.

 

[funksobeefy]

ah, the good ole "I have a black friend so racism is ok" argument. Didn't make sense then, doesn't make sense now.

I don't even see how this is sexist to be honest. Looks like every game game I have ever seen.

 

[ckam]

The "It's made by a woman" argument seems rather stupid, but I do agree with it not being really sexist. I think the word only gets thrown around if a girl looks attractive enough, but whatever.

Also, before I forget, this really has desensitized me to the term "sexist", just like "Nazi" or "Socialist".

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I don't care much for the pretty weak sexism argument but holy shit the animation in that game is good. Smooth as fuck and it has a beautiful style. If the gameplay is good this could be something of a sleeper hit.

 

[zombi2989]

I agree with esperandote. Whether or not you think Skullgirls is sexist lets all step back and take a moment to realize how far we've come. Plus this game would probably look just as cool even if there were no boobies.

 

[Sir Strange Of The House Lycan]

Other than Rapelay, when was the last time you heard something like this happen with a Japanese hentai game?

You mean when have I heard something like this happen with games specifically designed to be pornographic and released to a niche market?

Wow...Equating that to skullgirls, a game slated for open release....

..Yeah...

Alright, that was stupid comparison, I admit.

 

[LilithSlave]

Being "attractive", is subjective.

Can we just call them "curvy" and "skinny" instead?

 

[Aisaku]

What are they really protesting against, specifically? And how is that any worse than What Sakura does in pretty much all her animations?

 

[Rarhnor]

Have these people ever watched the titles of Baywatch?

Pammie had it in her contract that she REQUIRED at least 4(?) close ups of her cleavage per show.

But people will get offended over anything these days. Especially if "OMG" it's not realistic.

Like shouting at Dragons. Or winning Harrier attacks. Or being discovered from nowhere to win a singing/modelling/baking contest.

Because they're all real.

Like your country's elections.

So...much...cynicism.

Are you always like this?

OT: Despite the rather shallow arguments the developer made, it isn't really sexism. No discrimination, just animated women fighting. It would be sexist if they fought with the power of victimization, and the winner is the first one to subjugate to the nearest male.