Skullgirls (upcoming 2D fighter)

[Johnnyallstar]

The animation is very smooth but reminds me of kids next door, which is a shame because I don't like that style.

What style? "Animated?" Because quite a few games use that style, including almost every non-polygonal 2D fighter. Also Kirby.

I don't think you quite understand what I said. It's the style of the art, the aesthetics. You can't tell me that you don't see any difference betweenwhat Guilty Gear, Street Fighter II, and SkullGirls all look like. They have different artistic styles.

As for what I meant, the aesthetic scheme looks like it came right out of Codename: Kids Next Door, to which I am not a fan of.

Spoiler: Quick Codename Kids Next Door and Skullgirls art comparison

 

[Ravidrath]

I can't say I see any similarities between Peacock and Codename: Kids Next Door... except maybe the nose? But that character is inspired by 1940's cartoons specifically and not exactly representative of the entire cast.

Our other characters don't look anything like that.

For example...

 

[GodEmperorOfGarhalla]

This looks cool. I might enjoy it.

 

[Axelhander]

Thanks for making this thread, Axel.

I work at the developer, Reverge Labs, and can answer questions if anyone has them.

Coolness; I'm actually Specs on SRK, and I wanted to spread the word on this amazing looking title. =)

It's a real shame that I'll be missing out on a great fighting game because I dislike the art style

Oh, my kingdom for a "banging head against the wall" smiley.

I get what you're saying, but I don't really agree. The more "basic" fighters, a la the Street Fighter and KOF types, allow for plenty of flexibility in their combo engines without duplicating a move. And in the more bombastic, ASW and Versus-style games, with all the helpers, assists, OTGs, launchers and/or other such amenities, have so much at their disposal that it would barely be a limit... other than to get rid of those basic abuses.

I think it would be something good to implement in a high-profile fighter. Rather than stifle creativity, I think you'd see more of it, just as one sees in the film industry with small, dedicated productions. Operating within limits is what inspires people to work harder at finding ways to exceed them.

Something about the idea still tingles my spidey sense, since I feel it's patterns that are the real issue, but I'll concede that I wouldn't be against at least trying a fighter that did such a two move filter.

Also, thanks for the info re: SFX. Didn't know. Now I do!

 

[Axelhander]

I don't think you quite understand what I said.

I understand completely. I just openly question the motives. Or, perhaps more accurately, the tastes... and lack thereof. Read into that however you wish.

*snip*

Quoting you again to present you, and anyone interested, with the Skullgirls dev's reasons for the anti-loop system:

http://skullgirls.com/blog/2011/04/11/the-problem-with-loops

Just an FYI for you to read, and not me using it as the cornerstone of an argument. Though admittedly I'll probably do exactly that, likely in the near future.

 

[Johnnyallstar]

I don't think you quite understand what I said.

I understand completely. I just openly question the motives. Or, perhaps more accurately, the tastes... and lack thereof. Read into that however you wish.

That's just uncalled for. I didn't say anything except I didn't like the aesthetics. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it, or that it was a bad game, it just doesn't fit my liking. As for my motives? What motives would I have against this game? I hope it does well for the developers, it's just not my cup of tea.

Speaking of motives, you're insulting people because there's something that doesn't tickle their fancy. I understand you wrote the thread, and are excited about it. Good for you, but there's no reason to be personally insulted whenever somebody doesn't immediately fall in love with it.

 

[Axelhander]

"Better late than never" update:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SkullgirlsGame

^ The Skullgirls YouTube channel, which has footage of a side tournament for said game, run at Evolution. Also on YouTube somewhere (search) is the Skullgirls panel, which is a great watch.

NINJA EDIT - Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB7ylho3Gq0

^ That's the link to Part 1. Parts 2 through 7 should naturally come up in the sidebars 'n' stuff as you view them.

Great insight into the development process, both for aesthetics and gameplay.

 

[Proven Paradox]

This has some vague interest for me--I love the idea of no infinite loops--but I'm not digging the aesthetics either. With this kind of game, how it looks is important. I liked Blazeblue because its look suggested over the top anime fighting antics, and that's exactly what I got. Same for Guilty Gear, same for Marvel Versus . Excluding Necrid and Ivy (and Spawn if you got that version), Soul Calibur 2's look promised a more medieval combat type of game, and again, provided well. So far, this looks closer to Looney Toons, especially with the introduction of Peacock. (Reading the character's bio on the site, I see that was intentional for her.) That holds no appeal to me.

I guess what I'd like to see are some characters that I can take seriously. So far we have girl who's hair has teeth, girl whose hat has arms, and girl who literally throws pies and summons "cartoon cronies." The goal for a fighting game should be epic ridiculousness. So far it's "I can't take this seriously" ridiculousness. At this rate I wouldn't be surprised to see Karapyss the Crabomancer or Professor Necro-Dead [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/7/8/], and that leads to exactly the same problems the Penny Arcade guys discuss in Rise of the Immortals.

Another concern of mine. Are there going to be any men among the playable characters? "A bunch of people beating each other up" sounds like your standard video game. "A bunch of hot women beating each other up" sounds outright exploitative and tasteless. I have less of a problem with the standard busty video game babe when it's paired up with the standard impossibly buff video game dude. To people who see Litchi and go, "Big breasted bra-less woman, more proof that gamers are all mentally pubescent boys with impossible expectations of women," I can reply, "Okay, I'll give you that we have utterly unrealistic women, but check out Bang, Hakumen, and freaking IRON TAGER*. We have utterly unrealistic MEN as well, and in that way it kind of balances out." Without that kind of balancing factor, I kind of doubt I'll be able to put the kind of investment a good 2D fighter requires simply because the expoitative side of it is such a turn off.

*As an aside, this isn't hating. I main Tager in Blazeblue. Real SOVIET damage!

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Thank you for bringing this game to my attention. I will look into it. Anyone have the official release date?

 

[Legion IV]

I hate to be that guy but.... am not very interested. First off a game that teaches you how to play has already been done well Blazblue CS (a bleh game as well but it teaches you everything) I could go on a rant of how holding your hands in a game is silly but i wont.

I hate the dumbing down of a fighting games so these easy to do specials make me cry. Am a Guilty gear Purist, I've been playing it competitively for over 9 years. The game takes years and years to even master 1 character. The game is actually really difficult to pull of any low level combo.

Skull girls will probably be easy to do stuff. I miss when fighting games were hard, i miss when combos weren't given to you and you couldnt look online you actually devloped your own combos and playstyle.

The state of fighiting games are just going downhill fast. in like 5 years just i dont want to think about it.

But you know what? who cares am a right? Am sittin here listening to some Guilty gear music (greatest music ever written) Playin Guilty gear accent core on my moded GG fightstick with custom art of GG .

Unless theres a new GG i'll still be playin accent core. so will my friends. Theres tournaments still held for this game. Real fans never die and real fans never leave there game for a new uinferior game.

GG For life.

 

[The_State]

This game looks fun. I rather like the aesthetic, as it doesn't seem to take itself too seriously. Also, a system that makes infinite loops much harder (I won't say impossible yet, for obvious reasons) intrigues me. I still don't like combo-heavy fighters all that much, since I prefer a game where outplaying means doing more than mastering a sequence of button presses, but I'll definitely give this a look when it becomes available.

 

[Axelhander]

Thank you for bringing this game to my attention. I will look into it. Anyone have the official release date?

Later this year <-- last anyone has heard.

*snip*

I'll admit that I, too, would like some fighters of the male persuasion in the game. According to the devs on the SRK topic, male characters are going to be part of the game, though likely not part of the original roster (DLC is planned). The canon (which is pretty in-depth, if you read the official site) has prominent male power players; despite the Skull Heart (the story's McGuffin) being usable only by women, there are men who want to use that power, destroy it, etc.

The ridiculousness of the fighters doesn't bother me personally, because I find fighting game characters that take themselves too seriously a) boring and b) some attempt by the storyteller behind said games to say "look my game's story is serious!" (PROTIP: fighting game stories generally suck). I like Pocket Fighter Akuma more than other versions, for instance. Ironically, the Skullgirls story is wicked cool, so I think they're aiming at a best of both goal: funny, laugh-inducing antics on screen, narrative elements tying it all together.

And yes, real Soviet damage is where it's at.

 

[Axelhander]

*snip*

This is part of David Sirlin's awesome book called Playing to Win, which you can buy (recommended) or read online for free at his site, http://Sirlin.Net:

Spoiler: Why the QQ execution used to be hard QQ argument is flippin' stupid

The scrub has still more crutches. He talks a great deal about ?skill? and how he has skill whereas other players?very much including the ones who beat him flat out?do not have skill. The confusion here is what ?skill? actually is. In Street Fighter, scrubs often cling to combos as a measure of skill. A combo is a sequence of moves that is unblockable if the first move hits. Combos can be very elaborate and very difficult to pull off. But single moves can also take ?skill,? according to the scrub. The ?dragon punch? or ?uppercut? in Street Fighter is performed by holding the joystick toward the opponent, then down, then diagonally down and toward as the player presses a punch button. This movement must be completed within a fraction of a second, and though there is leeway, it must be executed fairly accurately. Ask any scrub and they will tell you that a dragon punch is a ?skill move.?

I once played a scrub who was actually quite good. That is, he knew the rules of the game well, he knew the character matchups well, and he knew what to do in most situations. But his web of mental rules kept him from truly playing to win. He cried cheap as I beat him with ?no skill moves? while he performed many difficult dragon punches. He cried cheap when I threw him five times in a row asking, ?Is that all you know how to do? Throw?? I gave him the best advice he could ever hear. I told him, ?Play to win, not to do ?difficult moves.?? This was a big moment in that scrub?s life. He could either ignore his losses and continue living in his mental prison or analyze why he lost, shed his rules, and reach the next level of play.

The contents of the above spoiler tag, not counting the title of said tag (which I wrote), is by David Sirlin, and not by me in any way.

The following is by me:

Your insistence on measuring a fighting game's worth by the difficulty of its execution makes me feel that your kind of game may be more a Dance Dance Revolution title. Or perhaps 5 Simons all at once. People more concerned with the placement of moves over arbitrary special move motions are way more concerned with strategy.