So About Game of Thrones Last Night...

[Boris Goodenough]

Just rewatched the scene 5 times, she opens one button and kisses him passionately at least once on the way down to the floor says: "Not here, it's not right, stop it stop it, stop it, stop it, stop, it's not right, stop right, it's not right... no, don't you, don't you!".
It does sound like Headey plays the role as if she abhores the location (big surprise), not the act itself.

Yes because saying no over and over again is so ambiguous, whether it's because of the location or the act she still explicitly resists.

She willingly kisses him on the way down, that does make it ambiguous.

 

[[REDACTED]]

]

Wait, I'm getting mixed messages here. Does Jamie actually rape her or what? Or is Cersei clearly into it, just missing lines from the book?

Haven't seen the episode yet, but this isn't exactly much of a spoiler.

Rape. Absolutely, incontestably rape. Cersei is clearly horrified and keeps on saying "no" over and over again throughout the entire scene.

Huh.

I'll have to watch the episode soon, that doesn't exactly sound like something that would happen. Especially literally after the last episode.

Da fuq? Much confused.

It wasn't something that would happen, but it did. Context won't help, I'm afraid.

On an unrelated note, "It's almost romantic in an incesty, fucking your twin next to your dead kid kind of way" is the best sentence I've read this month. Congratulations, Colour Scientist!

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

]

]

Wait, I'm getting mixed messages here. Does Jamie actually rape her or what? Or is Cersei clearly into it, just missing lines from the book?

Haven't seen the episode yet, but this isn't exactly much of a spoiler.

Rape. Absolutely, incontestably rape. Cersei is clearly horrified and keeps on saying "no" over and over again throughout the entire scene.

Huh.

I'll have to watch the episode soon, that doesn't exactly sound like something that would happen. Especially literally after the last episode.

Da fuq? Much confused.

It wasn't something that would happen, but it did. Context won't help, I'm afraid.

On an unrelated note, "It's almost romantic in an incesty, fucking your twin next to your dead kid kind of way" is the best sentence I've read this month. Congratulations, Colour Scientist!

Yeah, just watched it. I do think it's more her objected to the location, but more over I think it's retarded that it even happened IN the room.

Did Jamie suddenly not care about his dead kid, or have about 10 seconds to run upstairs? I mean, there must of been a smell or something, not to mention them doing it on a tomb floor or something.

The whole scene just didn't make sense, it would be much worse if she objected in a bedroom, as there would be no ambiguity as to the whole act vs location.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm not really sure where they're going with this because they seem to have put a lot of work into making Jaime a more sympathetic character. I can kind of guess what the implications for the story might be but if they're just trying to put a wedge between Jaime and Cersei, there were probably better, more subtle and more clever ways to do it.

I agree.

It was pretty obvious the relationship between Jaime and Cersei wasn't what it used to be, what with Jaime growing a conscience, and his "friendship" with Brienne. And when he finally returns to King's Landing, Cersei doesn't seem too interested in him either. But this just feels like the creators jumping the gun.

Now, their relationship was fucked up anyway, so it's not like something like this was unthinkable. But it just occurs out of nowhere. I know Jaime is probably a bit taken a back by the fact that the woman he loves begs him to kill his (and her) own brother, but then to go into immediate rape mode feels dreadfully out of character.

The fact that they have sex right next to their son's corpse was screwed up enough - The whole rape angle felt completely unecessary for that moment.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Damn you double post!

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I think the show is going to diverge a little from the books, but please enlighten me on how this 'belittles rape'.

Did Jamie suddenly not care about his dead kid, or have about 10 seconds to run upstairs? I mean, there must of been a smell or something, not to mention them doing it on a tomb floor or something.

Somehow I don't think Jaime cared that much about Joffrey ever. We see Joffrey multiple times being an asshole to Jaime without knowing he's his father, and Jaime seems more like the kind of person who takes care of his own wants and needs and doesn't care about the consequences. Maybe it's just that they were alone and not likely to be intruded upon for once.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Yeah my respect for Jamie has been lower thanks to that scene. While I haven't read the book but I did read that scene being different in the book.

 

[Smiley Face]

Personally, I saw it as unchanged, the directing/writing just failed to properly make the distinction. Although, reading over stuff now, there doesn't seem to be enough in the scene to justify the idea that it was just poor execution, it may be my read of the characters, knowledge of the books, and good opinion of the show biasing me to assume that they aren't just making a bad change.

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

I think the show is going to diverge a little from the books, but please enlighten me on how this 'belittles rape'.

Did Jamie suddenly not care about his dead kid, or have about 10 seconds to run upstairs? I mean, there must of been a smell or something, not to mention them doing it on a tomb floor or something.

Somehow I don't think Jaime cared that much about Joffrey ever. We see Joffrey multiple times being an asshole to Jaime without knowing he's his father, and Jaime seems more like the kind of person who takes care of his own wants and needs and doesn't care about the consequences. Maybe it's just that they were alone and not likely to be intruded upon for once.

Yeah, I kind of guess in some really flimsy way that makes sense. I'm just not sure how a choked blood covered dead boy smells. Sounds like a bad smell.

And towards the whole caring point, I think it's more that Jamie never considered him his kid because he never addressed him like that. Just a guess, because Jamie's done more fucked up things than this. 'Specially the whole taking Bran for a nice flight, that was a bit screwed.

 

[m19]

]With one episode, they managed to kill all of my enthusiasm for what had been my favourite show of all time. I'm done with this fucking series. Oh well. Off to the books I guess.

Why now and not when Drogo took Daenerys like a horse?

 

[theotakuoverlord]

Yeah my respect for Jamie has been lower thanks to that scene. While I haven't read the book but I did read that scene being different in the book.

I know right? Where is the old Jaime who kicked a little boy out of a tower, murdered innocent people and only had CONSENSUAL sex with his own sister?

This is nothing but tumblr fangirls getting upset. I don't remember all this fervour when Theon was having his dick cut off. Guess it only counts when its an attractive woman.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Yeah my respect for Jamie has been lower thanks to that scene. While I haven't read the book but I did read that scene being different in the book.

I know right? Where is the old Jaime who kicked a little boy out of a tower, murdered innocent people and only had CONSENSUAL sex with his own sister?

This is nothing but tumblr fangirls getting upset. I don't remember all this fervour when Theon was having his dick cut off. Guess it only counts when its an attractive woman.

Well I mean the part when he started to redeem himself after he got his hand chop off. That when he became likeable for saving Brienne twice and we get to learn the trut habout the whole Kingslayer.

 

[[REDACTED]]

]With one episode, they managed to kill all of my enthusiasm for what had been my favourite show of all time. I'm done with this fucking series. Oh well. Off to the books I guess.

Why now and not when Drogo took Daenerys like a horse?

Because, as messed up as that subplot was, it made sense within the context of the story. Even the whole horrible, gratuitous and completely unnecessary Ramsey Snow torture-porn thing at least made sense. With this, they're throwing out an entire season of character development for a fairly major character. In fact, there wasn't any point in the series in which his rape of Cersei wouldn't fly in the face of his established characterization. Now it feels like that entire storyline, one in which I had gotten seriously invested, has been wasting my time all along.

It's not about how heinous the action was - I mean, I've made it through the rest of Game of Thrones for chrissakes - but how poorly it was handled.

 

[RedDeadFred]

I can understand people being pissed about the scene because of how it completely Jaime's character progression and is indeed different from the book. However, if people are getting pissy simply because they showed a raping... it's happened before on the show as well as plenty of other equally awful things. I don't understand how Martin would be okay with this.

 

[FoxKitsune]

]

Wait, I'm getting mixed messages here. Does Jamie actually rape her or what? Or is Cersei clearly into it, just missing lines from the book?

Haven't seen the episode yet, but this isn't exactly much of a spoiler.

Rape. Absolutely, incontestably rape. Cersei is clearly horrified and keeps on saying "no" over and over again throughout the entire scene.

I haven't unfortunately seen this series yet, but that just isn't the case in the books, which is a shame. I think so far the changes in the show have been good, and made sense for compressing it to a television series (mostly) but that change....damn.

It'd a bad one. If Jamie had raped Cersei in the book then fine, put it in the show, but you're not just changing a scene there, but a damn lot of previous (and upcoming) character development on his part.

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

Yeah my respect for Jamie has been lower thanks to that scene. While I haven't read the book but I did read that scene being different in the book.

I know right? Where is the old Jaime who kicked a little boy out of a tower, murdered innocent people and only had CONSENSUAL sex with his own sister?

This is nothing but tumblr fangirls getting upset. I don't remember all this fervour when Theon was having his dick cut off. Guess it only counts when its an attractive woman.

I agree with this.

He's such a good guy, like an anti-hero or something!
... Uh, yeah. Yup.

Still, I'm complaining about the fact they did it in a tomb. Seriously people, did no-one think of the innocent little rats watching?!

 

[BlackJimmy]

It did have a rapey vibe I'll admit, and it did bug me, but while she was saying no, she was kissing back.
We need to see how she reacts to it in the next episode or the one after if she not in the next.

I'm personally more annoyed that they seemed to have flipped the Jaime/Brienne relationship around.

 

[Silvanus]

I haven't unfortunately seen this series yet, but that just isn't the case in the books, which is a shame. I think so far the changes in the show have been good, and made sense for compressing it to a television series (mostly) but that change....damn.

It'd a bad one. If Jamie had raped Cersei in the book then fine, put it in the show, but you're not just changing a scene there, but a damn lot of previous (and upcoming) character development on his part.

How do you feel about the changes made to Stannis' character, out of interest? They're pretty significant.

EDIT: For those interested, here's George R. R. Martin discussing the scene [http://grrm.livejournal.com/367116.html?thread=19030284#t19030284] on his blog.

 

[Zhukov]

I think they were going for her wanting to but knowing she shouldn't, given the location.

Regardless of whether or not that was the intention, it comes off as completely rapetastic and utterly at odds with Jamie's character.

In the books it's nothing like that. She's kinda iffy about doing right then and there for like two seconds before willing fucking him silly.