So according to some feminists, this anti-rape ad campaign is sexist

Stu35

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Joshic Shin said:
Well over 90% of rapes are done by men, including those done on men. I think this is a better way to handle it than the original ad that was shown.
Reported rapes.


Men are less likely to report rape(doubly so if it was committed by a woman) because of the social stigma that comes with it. A stigma the feminazis don't care about, because in their eyes all men are demons.


Speaking as a man who's been drunk and taken advantage of by a ridiculously ugly chick (rape, if you will). I've never felt the need to speak up because ultimately it's become quite a funny story (and I'm a man, so I was raised in the belief that if I have sex, it's entirely my fault)... So thats fine.

However, what if I HAD felt completely violated? I'd still face the same ridicule from my friends, the police would be unlikely to care or help, and societally I'd be in a very weak position to gain any kind of justice.

... C'est la vie.


Incidentally, I find it amusing that, in the eyes of the feminazis, Drunk men are responsible for our actions, but drunk women are not responsible for theirs.

Irony.


Incidentally, I am very pro-the "don't be that guy" advert, because I think that WILL put off the potential "date-rapists", some of whom might take advantage without realising the seriousness of the situation, I don't see why it has to be one or the other though - Warn women of the dangers and to look after themselves, warn men to look after their women and not to take advantage. They can work together to bring casual date-rape down, and overall rape down - Fewer cases of date-rape being thrown out for a lack of evidence/lack of proof there was no consent, means higher rates of conviction for ACTUAL rapists.
 

p00nz0rz

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I had to put my two cents in on this one. Note that I haven't read the entire thread.

The only controversial part of this ad -might- be the model with the underwear around her ankles. The message is extremely important.

As someone put it: Focusing an ad at rapists WILL NOT DO ANYTHING. It's not as if rapists would go to a bar, pick out a female, get her liquored up, then have to use the restroom and, upon seeing the poster, say, "Oh, well since you put it -that- way, I guess I shouldn't rape this girl!"

It makes much more sense to make the potential victim aware of how important it is to be prepared. This ad isn't blaming anyone for anything, nor is it claiming fault. It is simply saying: "When you drink, you may lose your inhibitions."

I had a peek at the comments section under that article. Someone said rape is, and I quote, "never truly preventable by the victim."

That is absolute and total HORSE DEFECATE.

My apologies, ladies, but honestly, NEVER? Not EVER "truly" preventable? Buy a f**king stun gun! I did a Google search and in less than 3 minutes I found over 15 stun guns for under 70 bucks that are rechargeable, and very small, several of which boast over 4.5 MILLION volts, which is over 80 times more than police-issue, though admittedly not as many amps. The sound alone is enough to deter most people, and if it doesn't, then the pain of being hit by that much energy certainly would. Another option would be mace/pepper spray. Or a gun. Or, don't dress like a whore and get wasted.

Just saying.
 

Labyrinth

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Stu35 said:
Reported rapes.


Men are less likely to report rape(doubly so if it was committed by a woman) because of the social stigma that comes with it. A stigma the feminazis don't care about, because in their eyes all men are demons.


Speaking as a man who's been drunk and taken advantage of by a ridiculously ugly chick (rape, if you will). I've never felt the need to speak up because ultimately it's become quite a funny story (and I'm a man, so I was raised in the belief that if I have sex, it's entirely my fault)... So thats fine.

However, what if I HAD felt completely violated? I'd still face the same ridicule from my friends, the police would be unlikely to care or help, and societally I'd be in a very weak position to gain any kind of justice.

... C'est la vie.
You know, I've never met a feminist who wasn't opposed to rape regardless of who the victim was, nor have I met one who doesn't loathe the stigma which rape of men carries. You see the logic behind that stigma is this: being taken advantage of is a weakness, something to be ashamed of. Men and masculinity is absolutely irreconcilable with weakness. Therefore, a man being raped reduces his masculinity because it shows weakness on his behalf. Additionally weakness and vulnerability are coded as feminine so the masculinity is doubly reduced because the victim is feminised by the crime they survived.

Why, that sounds like a really prime example of gender roles to me. More than that it sounds like an extensive gateway to victim-blaming and all the associated unhappy.

I look forward to looking up these feminists you claim don't care about this. Please, do tell.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Newtonyd said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
It isn't about clothes. Jesus, how many times does this have to be brought up?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States
Most rape offenders personally know their victim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence
A majority of rape is about dominating a person, not sexual arousal.
Are sexy clothes unable to arouse people because you 'know them'?

From the page you quote at me:

The sadistic rapist's assaults are deliberate, calculated and preplanned. They will often wear a disguise or will blindfold their victims.[3] Prostitutes or other people whom they perceive to be "promiscuous" are often the sadistic rapist's targets. The victims of a sadistic rapist may not survive the attack. For some offenders, the ultimate satisfaction is gained from murdering the victim.[1]
See that bit about the promiscuous target? By dressing up in skimpy clothing, you are giving the impression of promiscuity. Whether or not it's true, this is how people will perceive you. And there's nothing even wrong with that, I'm not one to subscribe to the Christian view of sex as a 'corrupter'.

On the other hand, by seeming promiscuous you are making yourself a target for men who do tell themselves "She's asking for it." And these people are bastards.

But playing the blame game at the end won't change the fact that an innocent person was raped! It can't be undone! Better that precautions are taken and we don't have to argue about it at all.
And? My point was that those instances are the minority. People in this thread seem to think that rapists are sociopaths who look for the sexiest, loosest person possible. That isn't the typical rapist. Rapists are everyday people, not violent monsters. And I'd rather we have an awareness program about what constitutes consent and what is and isn't rape.
 

p00nz0rz

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Ah, and forgot to mention.

Ads like these are not designed to instill fear or guilt. It's like ads telling you to wear condoms. They're not saying that getting an STD or getting a girl pregnant -WILL- happen EVERY SINGLE TIME, but it is a possibility. Therefore, you should prepare yourself should certain situations arise.

I should think if someone had a stun gun, Taser, or canister of mace that they would feel secure, not afraid. I mean, that's part of the reason I carry a knife to work. Partly for utility, but on the off chance someone feels like mugging me, or attacking me, I'll be able to defend myself better than if I were to engage in fisticuffs, or if that someone happens to be armed with a knife or gun.
 

Harbinger_

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Labyrinth said:
Harbinger_ said:
Never the victim's fault? Seriously? Admittedly 98% of the time it isn't the victim's fault but there is that 2% there. I'm talking people that purposely put themselves into situations where they hope to be sexually taken advantage of. Granted these people have mental issues however they do exist and the rapists are just as much at fault.
>>Purposely put themselves into situations where they hope to be sexually taken advantage of.
>>Purposely sexually taken advantage of
>>Purposely

...

What the fuck? There is no other possible response to this. No-one, no-one asks to be raped, or hopes to be raped. That's part of why it's called rape. It's against ones will. But please, tell me about these people. Who are they? How precisely are they inviting rape? Have you asked them about whether they're doing it deliberately or not?

Seriously. What the fuck.
There is such things as rape fantasies and people who want others to take advantage of them sometimes to the point of obsession and festishism where they desire for people to take advantage of them or take them against their will. Ask any psychologist it does exist.
 

Newtonyd

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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
And? My point was that those instances are the minority. People in this thread seem to think that rapists are sociopaths who look for the sexiest, loosest person possible. That isn't the typical rapist. Rapists are everyday people, not violent monsters. And I'd rather we have an awareness program about what constitutes consent and what is and isn't rape.
I'd rather have an awareness program like that too. Better still would be to have both campaigns. Consent is an issue on both sides, and the issue becomes muddled when alcohol is involved (as the campaign states).

I'm just saying that the campaign doesn't 'blame' the victim, and that it has merit as a rape-reducer. A more ideal campaign would focus on how to say no to friends, family, and husbands and wives, since these are where the primary threats are from.

Still, just because this kind of rape is the minority doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. This is just a pretty poor example.
 

thom_cat_

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p00nz0rz said:
I had to put my two cents in on this one. Note that I haven't read the entire thread.

The only controversial part of this ad -might- be the model with the underwear around her ankles. The message is extremely important.

As someone put it: Focusing an ad at rapists WILL NOT DO ANYTHING. It's not as if rapists would go to a bar, pick out a female, get her liquored up, then have to use the restroom and, upon seeing the poster, say, "Oh, well since you put it -that- way, I guess I shouldn't rape this girl!"

It makes much more sense to make the potential victim aware of how important it is to be prepared. This ad isn't blaming anyone for anything, nor is it claiming fault. It is simply saying: "When you drink, you may lose your inhibitions."

I had a peek at the comments section under that article. Someone said rape is, and I quote, "never truly preventable by the victim."

That is absolute and total HORSE DEFECATE.

My apologies, ladies, but honestly, NEVER? Not EVER "truly" preventable? Buy a f**king stun gun! I did a Google search and in less than 3 minutes I found over 15 stun guns for under 70 bucks that are rechargeable, and very small, several of which boast over 4.5 MILLION volts, which is over 80 times more than police-issue, though admittedly not as many amps. The sound alone is enough to deter most people, and if it doesn't, then the pain of being hit by that much energy certainly would. Another option would be mace/pepper spray. Or a gun. Or, don't dress like a whore and get wasted.

Just saying.
You're talking about forcible rape, you're also advising people to carry weapons, most of which can't be purchased or held on person in many many countries.
The idea isn't to stop rape when it's happening, the idea is to get rapists to humanise the victims. And in these circumstances not just view the girl as a "drunk slut" or a "wasted ***** dressed like a whore" but as people.
That's the problem here. Rape is not okay, it does not make a difference if someone is dressed skimpily. It does not matter whether someone is drunk. And viewing a woman in that circumstance as a target, or as someone who should be responsible to protect themselves from the threat of rape is wrong.
Sure, people should be encouraged to protect themselves, but putting the blame on a victim because they drank and wore what they liked is not the right thing to be doing.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Newtonyd said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
And? My point was that those instances are the minority. People in this thread seem to think that rapists are sociopaths who look for the sexiest, loosest person possible. That isn't the typical rapist. Rapists are everyday people, not violent monsters. And I'd rather we have an awareness program about what constitutes consent and what is and isn't rape.
I'd rather have an awareness program like that too. Better still would be to have both campaigns. Consent is an issue on both sides, and the issue becomes muddled when alcohol is involved (as the campaign states).

I'm just saying that the campaign doesn't 'blame' the victim, and that it has merit as a rape-reducer. A more ideal campaign would focus on how to say no to friends, family, and husbands and wives, since these are where the primary threats are from.

Still, just because this kind of rape is the minority doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. This is just a pretty poor example.
Okay then. We still kinda disagree on that campaign, but we agree with each other on everything else.
 

ElPatron

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PhantomEcho said:
The second thing I'd do is find the sonovabitch who took advantage of her and un-man him with my .38 Detective Special.
You need to get something else, brah. A totally shitfaced guy will have his cognitive abilities clouded and can charge you even if you have a gun.

That's when you'll find that .38 Special performs poorly against charging individuals under the influence of alchool or drugs. And find out why the police departments stopped using it after claiming it was the next big thing.

Try to get ammo with performance similar to your local PD. That way you keep out of legal trouble while still not being outgunned.

SuperMse said:
I fail to see why you guys are responding so vehemently against this. Is it because someone said the magic f word? No, not that one, the other one. Because this ad campaign is victim blaming at its best. It's telling women to avoid getting raped as opposed to telling men not to rape. (...) All you were doing was having a typical fun night out.My idea of typical fun is not getting drunk and getting raped, but that's me. It's the rapists fault for raping you, not the other way around. Yes, you should always take precautions to protect yourself, but isn't always walking around in fear of rape counterproductive to having a fun night out? Should you not party on the grounds that you might be raped, just like you shouldn't drive a car in case a drunk driver hits you? Of course not.

Rape is the rapist's fault. Target your ads at them, not the victims.
Yeah, don't make advertisements to get people to pay more attention to the road because it's the drunk drivers' fault.

Staw-Man Fallacy incoming:
Even better, let's just take off all road signs and just let Darwin Awards do their job.

It's that silly.
 

manic_depressive13

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Xin Baixiang said:
Count how many times you use a female pronoun in that post.

Think about why I'm asking that.
You're absolutely right. Men can get raped too. I even red a court report where three men shoved a rolling pin up a fourth man's anus and beat him violently because they thought he was gay, rupturing his internal organs and landing themselves sixteen years in prison. Even women can rape men! Did you know that? I'd go into detail but unfortunately it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 

Newtonyd

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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Okay then. We still kinda disagree on that campaign, but we agree with each other on everything else.
Agree to disagree, I think we've all learned a valuable lesson in friendship.

You have to share,
You have to care,
It's the right thing to do.

(Sorry, your avatar is distracting.)
 

Fluffythepoo

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Feminists are narcissistic assholes who prey on pleasant conversations, one should not devote a single fuck to them, as it is invariably regretted and lost for all eternity
 

PhantomEcho

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ElPatron said:
PhantomEcho said:
The second thing I'd do is find the sonovabitch who took advantage of her and un-man him with my .38 Detective Special.
You need to get something else, brah. A totally shitfaced guy will have his cognitive abilities clouded and can charge you even if you have a gun.

That's when you'll find that .38 Special performs poorly against charging individuals under the influence of alchool or drugs. And find out why the police departments stopped using it after claiming it was the next big thing.

Try to get ammo with performance similar to your local PD. That way you keep out of legal trouble while still not being outgunned.

My .38 Special is quite sufficient, I'll have you know.

It's gotten enough use to prove it's worth to me.

It's also the gun I trained with, and the one I'm comfortable using. You'll find that any gun has perfectly sufficient stopping power when you have an 87% accuracy when aiming for the kill-zones. You don't get that kind of aim when you're using a weapon you don't know inside and out.

I've had this gun since I was 14 years old. I've fired it and cleaned it and kept it safe for just such a day when it would be used to kill some poor bastard.

Usually, I expect it to be used on any of my daughter's boyfriends... but since we were talking about rape and all... I had to branch out.

See, I'd shoot any of my daughter's boyfriends just on the sheer principle.
 

Paradoxrifts

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The Feministing article has some 50-plus responses, but yet nobody once (at time of posting) thinks to actually do the work of disproving the idea that the ad being discussed might actually be more effective at reducing incidents of rape than any of the alternative strategies that do get suggested. By the overall tone of the responses it seems quite clear to me that most of the respondents are far more concerned about being offended by the content of the ad then they are worried about reducing incidents of rape in Pennsylvania.

They remind me strongly of the sort of asinine people that are far more comfortable waging an ideological conflict from the comfort and safety of their office desks then they would be dealing with the unpleasant realities of the situation.

Now.. I don't want anyone to leave with the impression that I dislike Feminism. The only thing that I've endeavored to point out here is that these people are sadly no exception to the general rule that you can generally count on ideologues to be a complete brainless dolts regardless of their ideology.

PS- Just a heads up. Feel free to disagree vehemently, but don't go asking me any questions. I'm not going to be answering any of them.