So according to some feminists, this anti-rape ad campaign is sexist

KLJT

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It's not rape if both people were drunk; not joking that is the law because neither person was in full control of mental decisions either party could have initiated sex and just not remember.
And as a student having pictures of shit faced women wearing almost no clothes with the slogan "This is not an invitation to rape me" is grossly offensive, I'm a man not a rapist
 

MassiveGeek

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Sexual Harassment Panda said:
Both "don't rape" and "avoid being raped" are both very much widely taught sentiments...I don't know where she got the idea that wasn't true.

Personally, I'm really not convinced that we have the right to drink ourselves defenseless and never expect anything bad to happen as a result of it. It might sound cold, but, in the right circumstances, getting raped can be at least partly your fault.
Truth.

Although, if you're raped, then someone else has conciously taken the decision to fuck someone without consent, and the victim isn't capable of mind controlling, so on that part it can't possibly be their fault.
However,
when you put yourself in the position to be easily exploited, such as drinking until your eyes fall out among strangers, then that's on you. That is however all you're responsible for.

Something people seem to disregard is that men get raped too. It seems that in rape-awareness lessons and such in school, it's only the girls being informed of the horrors that might happen. Why? Let the guys join the party, for fucks sake. Yes, cases with men being raped are fewer, but that doesn't make them irrelevant. And perhaps the guys would understand how horrific it is if they were told as well.

Campaigning this sort of message is really fucking hard, someone is going to be pissed at it.
 

Combustion Kevin

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covering every issue and topic in an ad would make it a +-40 min long preach, nevermind putting it on a poster.

these things are bound to recieve angry responses because they can simply not cover everything, there's just no room.
maybe its better to start several campaigns, put them under the same banner.
 

MercurySteam

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Looking at the replies left at the bottom of that page, I can't help but think of that good ol' saying: "Any fool can use a computer. Many do."
 

WaderiAAA

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Aug 11, 2009
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With this logic you could blame security firms for shifting the focus from "don't break into people's homes" to "prevent people from breaking into your home."

To be fair though, while the ad campaign seems alright to me, it should be used as a suppliment to more direct "don't rape people" ads, so if there are none of the latter, I guess it is a legitimate complaint.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Jan 23, 2011
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Newtonyd said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Okay then. We still kinda disagree on that campaign, but we agree with each other on everything else.
Agree to disagree, I think we've all learned a valuable lesson in friendship.

You have to share,
You have to care,
It's the right thing to do.

(Sorry, your avatar is distracting.)
Nice talking to you. And I'll take that as a compliment for my avatar.
Tin Man said:
Brawndo said:
This is for one very good reason: normal men who aren't psychopaths don't need an ad campaign to tell us not to rape women, and the rapists out there aren't going to magically stop their heinous crimes because some poster tells them it's bad.
That... Is actually an extremely good point. Well put.

SuperMse said:
I fail to see why you guys are responding so vehemently against this. Is it because someone said the magic f word? No, not that one, the other one. Because this ad campaign is victim blaming at its best. It's telling women to avoid getting raped as opposed to telling men not to rape.
I take serious offense with this view. If I thought the mods would listen I'd have reported you for it. Fact is men don't rape. Disgusting animals do, and a poster saying: 'Stop raping' will do fuck all to somebody in the warped mind state needed to do something as heinous as rape. What could be an effective way of decreasing the stats for it, without making every man out there feel even more ashamed of his sex drives(thanks largely to views like yours you disgusting sexist), is indeed to educate women about the potential risks, and to make sure that they stay in groups where possible, don't put themselves into dangerous positons with strangers, and get so drunk that they might not even have a defence in a court of law.

Is it a nice subject, no. Is there a way of tackling this in any light way, probably not. But treating every man out there like a rapist as hardly going to help.
I refer you to my previous conversation with Newtonyd. Most rapists are everyday people, not sociopaths. And a campaign for guys about consent and a campaign for everyone about not being pressured by trusted family/friends would be great.
 

TheGauntman

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DarkRyter said:
Ads need to be more straightforward.

Uncle Sam, finger pointed at viewer

"Stop Raping People".
Is it wrong that I actually laughed out loud at that image? That kind of hyper-absurdity always tickles me.

OT: People get too hung up on the crime of rape rather than the fact that rape is a crime. As some people have mentioned in this thread, this ad campaign seems to be more about avoiding dangerous situations that may lead to rape, rather than excusing or encouraging the rapist. Rape is a crime - a horrible crime granted, but a crime nonetheless - and I don't think it's a bad thing to reinforce the idea that taking reasonable precautions can help prevent a crime, be it robbery, drunk-driving - or rape.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Tin Man said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
I refer you to my previous conversation with Newtonyd. Most rapists are everyday people, not sociopaths. And a campaign for guys about consent and a campaign for everyone about not being pressured by trusted family/friends would be great.
I'd have to ask respectfully where you got your stats from to claim that bud. Because I seriously doubt your average man on the street needs to be reminded to not rape.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States
Unless people regularly hang out with crazy people or they have crazy family, I'd say everyday people. Most victims personally know their attacker.
 

Batou667

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Of course rape is bad. That's not in question.

But this story strikes me as yet another cheap, lazy and predictable shot at men.

When I leave my house, I lock it. When I park my car, I check all the windows are up and any vauables are pushed under the seats. When I walk home in the early hours of the morning, I stick to well-lit paths and keep my iPhone in my pocket, not out on display. By the Feminist's logic, this means I am complicit in "burglary culture", "car theft culture" and "mugging culture".

Bullshit! I acknowledge that crime exists and I take steps to safeguard myself from the types of crime that are likely to affect me. I don't moan about how this infringes my inalienable right to leave my house doors flapping open while I prance through the rough part of town, butt naked and juggling wads of banknotes.

This hypothetical "Men! Stop being rapists" poster campaign is pointless and insulting - rapists will ignore it and normal decent guys will be stigmatised (although I suspect that this is the point: Feminists believe there is no such thing as a "normal, decent" guy, since all men are potential rapists). Imagine a similar poster campaign aimed at the black community: "Hey, black people! Stop selling drugs and getting involved in petty theft!" - there'd be an uproar.
 

Treblaine

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Well it should be obvious that the feminist article is being alarmist and unreasonable, just because it is a good idea to take care of your self and others doesn't mean failure to do so is "fault" or "responsible" or "guilt". They are simply making things up that are not there. It seems quite paranoid.

I suppose you could say the advert itself doesn't do enough to shame the rapist, it kind of dismisses the callousness of rapists as to be expected.

But really? Can ANYONE be sure that if they are utterly vulnerable with horny drunken young men NONE will EVER take advantage of the situation? Is it not a reasonable expectation to fear being taken advantage of if you pass out? I certainly do though I'm likely only to end up stripped naked and duct taped to the wall with a cock drawn on my forehead.

Drunken teenagers are not known for their self control.

But I wouldn't say this is so much rape "culture". A human propensity for violence (with puberty extends to sexual violence) is not learned, it is merely the LACK of decency towards other people. People must be taught to RESTRAIN their violent tendencies. Toddlers will spontaneously resort to hitting and shoving their playmates to spite never learning it from anyone, because it is fundamental human logic (animal logic, even) to take what you want by force. Violence is not an "infection" it is nothing special, it is the LACK of self control. When we grow up we learn not to hit, not to hurt and not to touch without permission.

The problem is the perpetrators are so inebriated with dutch courage it is very-hard to reason with them with compassion, they will delude themselves that "it isn't rape" or that "they wanted it earlier" and similar drunken delusions of implied consent. Telling drunk teenagers not to rape is like telling drunk drivers not to be speed, they will convince themselves they are going at a safe speed. Ideally, don't let a drunk person behind the wheel, don't let a drunk man alone in a room with a passed out woman.

I think the best you can do is TERRIFY them with threats of long incarceration under rape charges if they UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES sexually touch a passed out woman. Fear is a powerful emotion, and can resonate even in the compromised mind of a drunk.

BUT! Big Caveat: this ad campaign must make a point that those who do this are more than just guilty, they make themselves pariahs and ostracised, that what they have not merely been caught doing what anyone else would have done, but they have done what most would have never done.

That is another thing people fear, being different. Being a "rapist" rather than another one of the guys.

The feminist article in question also fails to clearly delineate between "normal" men and men who would take advantage of vulnerable woman, they are all painted with one brush. If fails to mark rapists as outsiders, fails to champion men of virtue who would not succumb to temptation.

That - in some small way - contributes to a culture where rape is as likely as it is.
 

Rodrigo Girao

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Two drunk people decide to fuck. In the morning, one of them is a victim and the other is a pervert. Tell me how this works again.
 
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SuperMse said:
I fail to see why you guys are responding so vehemently against this. Is it because someone said the magic f word? No, not that one, the other one. Because this ad campaign is victim blaming at its best. It's telling women to avoid getting raped as opposed to telling men not to rape. It's making them the problem, not the rapists. That's wrong. Why make this ad as opposed to making ads saying "Don't get drunk and take advantage of women, ya prick." I mean, imagine if you were raped while drunk and then someone said it was your fault. How would you respond? All you were doing was having a typical fun night out. It's the rapists fault for raping you, not the other way around. Yes, you should always take precautions to protect yourself, but isn't always walking around in fear of rape counterproductive to having a fun night out? Should you not party on the grounds that you might be raped, just like you shouldn't drive a car in case a drunk driver hits you? Of course not.

Rape is the rapist's fault. Target your ads at them, not the victims.

Yes, because telling people to watch out for their friends, to prevent them from either drinking in excess, or at the very least slapping some sense into them, is blaming the potential victim.

It's saying, almost verbatim, that "Certain behaviours can make you a target, be mindful of that and take steps to prevent it." All adverts against doing stupid things, like doing meth or going home with Robert Pickton drunk, are, in my opinion, alarmist, and 9/10 times only serve to put fear in the back of your mind, but it's that 10% of the time they prove their worth.
 

Thaluikhain

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Treblaine said:
The feminist article in question also fails to clearly delineate between "normal" men and men who would take advantage of vulnerable woman, they are all painted with one brush. If fails to mark rapists as outsiders, fails to champion men of virtue who would not succumb to temptation.

That - in some small way - contributes to a culture where rape is as likely as it is.
I disagree, somewhat. The difference between a rapist and everyone else is simply whether or not they have raped someone. Which is overlooked by some people who don't consider themselves rapists despite having committed rape because rapists are such terrible people, not like them.

Rapists aren't outsiders. Most people are raped by their friends or family, one of "us", not some "them".
 

Khada

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Jan 8, 2009
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Simple, teach both because in the end, we should teach people not to rape, but within the foreseeable future, there will always be those who wont learn/listen... and so, teach people how to avoid rape as well.
 

everythingbeeps

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Yeah, the problem with that is the "She didn't want to". Not to say she did, but it's not like you lose the capacity to say no when you're drunk. What you lose is the capacity to decide. It's not like her body's immobile but in her mind she's screaming for help. If she's that drunk, she doesn't even know where she is, much less whether she wants to do something or not.