So according to some feminists, this anti-rape ad campaign is sexist

[Yopaz]

OK, so *I must admit I share some of view there. Saying women should not drink, go out alone or wear revealing clothes is kinda sexist.
However the targeted women for rape are either someone the rapist knows from before, or a woman who appears alone, vulnerable and in many cases under the influence of alcohol.
Targeting the rapist in campaigns is stupid. If a woman who tries to get away from him, screams or hits him isn't enough hint for him then a campaign telling him it's bad wont do shit.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Pro Tip A: Most guys aren't so stupid to think that anything a girl says while totally smashed is passable in court.

Pro Tip B: Ladys, don't listen to the feminists, this ads pretty straight on.

 

[ms_sunlight]

I refer you to my previous conversation with Newtonyd. Most rapists are everyday people, not sociopaths. And a campaign for guys about consent and a campaign for everyone about not being pressured by trusted family/friends would be great.

I'd have to ask respectfully where you got your stats from to claim that bud. Because I seriously doubt your average man on the street needs to be reminded to not rape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States
Unless people regularly hang out with crazy people or they have crazy family, I'd say everyday people. Most victims personally know their attacker.

Thank you for linking to this. There are so many myths and misconceptions about rape.

Every one of you almost certainly knows a rapist; you just don't know they're a rapist. Every one of you almost certainly knows rape victims, but because of the shame and embarassment many victims feel most will only tell those closest to them.

Interestingly, as long as you don't use the word "rape", rapists will self-report. People who would not say "I am a rapist" will answer yes if you describe an act that is legally rape and ask them if they have ever done that. See this interesting article for more info and links to statistics. [http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/]

 

[ph0b0s123]

So wait, by this logic ads telling you to lock the doors of your house and have an alarm in your car to make theft difficult, is also bad because we should be making ads telling people not to steal instead. Right just checking.

With ever other type of crime people taking preventative measures to try to make sure they won't be a victims is advised. With rape any advise on preventative measures you can take to protect your self is seen as sexism. Give it a rest. It is not really ever womans fault for being raped, but your can leave yourself vulnerable. In the same way if I leave the front door to my house wide open, I am more likely to get robbed.

 

[Krantos]

I fail to see why you guys are responding so vehemently against this. Is it because someone said the magic f word? No, not that one, the other one. Because this ad campaign is victim blaming at its best. It's telling women to avoid getting raped as opposed to telling men not to rape. It's making them the problem, not the rapists. That's wrong. Why make this ad as opposed to making ads saying "Don't get drunk and take advantage of women, ya prick." I mean, imagine if you were raped while drunk and then someone said it was your fault. How would you respond? All you were doing was having a typical fun night out. It's the rapists fault for raping you, not the other way around. Yes, you should always take precautions to protect yourself, but isn't always walking around in fear of rape counterproductive to having a fun night out? Should you not party on the grounds that you might be raped, just like you shouldn't drive a car in case a drunk driver hits you? Of course not.

Rape is the rapist's fault. Target your ads at them, not the victims.

The thing is (and other people pointed this out, too) that a decent guy is not going to intentionally rape, and someone who will is not going to be deterred by an ad campaign.

What's needed in our society is more education on what is considered rape. I'm guessing that most of the men who rape women when they're drunk don't realize it's rape (this means honestly drunk no roofies or anything like that, otherwise it's back to intentional rape). The real guilty party in those cases, as far as I'm concerned, is society at large for propagating this idea that getting drunk and getting laid is part of the party life-style. If you ask me, that's what these ad campaigns need to be addressing.

Men who go out and intentionally rape are (likely) sociopaths. No amount of advertising is going to stop them.

What we can stop is these rapes that ruin lives just because people got carried away at these parties. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a prude, but mixing young men, young women, and alcohol is asking for trouble and we need to start reigning this in.

Personally, I think if a guy and a girl are both so plastered they don't know what they're doing and they end of having sex, they're both victims, and the party culture is the one to blame.

Start educating people on both sides. I think this poster does that. It warns women of what can happen, but it also serves a warning to men that drunk does not mean consenting. Hopefully, it will encourage both to be more careful.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

You know, I think the whole "a drunk girl shouldn't be held accountable for having sex with someone while she was too drunk to know what she was doing" is all well and good, but shouldn't it apply to everything else in that case?

Got drunk and smashed a window? Can't charge the person because they were drunk.
Got drunk and told their boss they're an asshole? Can't fire the person because they were drunk.

I'm sorry, but if you get drunk enough that you sleep with someone you didn't want to sleep with take some responsibility. Being drunk does not make you unaccountable for anything else, so why should it with this?

Honestly, as a guy, rape scares the shit out of me. It is far too easy for women to call rape nowadays. Unless it's changed (or I was misinformed), it is considered rape if the woman changes her mind after she has had sex with someone (can someone confirm whether or not that is accurate? It seems way to stupid to be real).

 

[irishda]

Considering there's another thread here where 70% polled said that if you had sex with a drunk girl who consented (while she was drunk) then it wasn't rape, I'd say the Escapist forums' views on rape are rather skewed.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Considering there's another thread here where 70% polled said that if you had sex with a drunk girl who consented (while she was drunk) then it wasn't rape, I'd say the Escapist forums' views on rape are rather skewed.

How is it rape though? If we hold people accountable for everything else they do while drunk, why should this be any different? Why should "I didn't want to have sex with that person" become "that person raped me"?

 

[irishda]

You know, I think the whole "a drunk girl shouldn't be held accountable for having sex with someone while she was too drunk to know what she was doing" is all well and good, but shouldn't it apply to everything else in that case?

Got drunk and smashed a window? Can't charge the person because they were drunk.
Got drunk and told their boss they're an asshole? Can't fire the person because they were drunk.

I'm sorry, but if you get drunk enough that you sleep with someone you didn't want to sleep with take some responsibility. Being drunk does not make you unaccountable for anything else, so why should it with this?

Honestly, as a guy, rape scares the shit out of me. It is far too easy for women to call rape nowadays. Unless it's changed (or I was misinformed), it is considered rape if the woman changes her mind after she has had sex with someone (can someone confirm whether or not that is accurate? It seems way to stupid to be real).

It's way too stupid to be real because it isn't real. A woman can't change her consent after the fact unless she was mentally incapacitated when she gave her consent (i.e. drunk) and now she's realizing what happened.

This ties in with the whole "you can't blame her cause she didn't know what she was doing". If a drunk person commits a crime? That's still a crime because you are accountable for your actions. But, consenting to sex isn't exactly an action, it's an agreement, a verbal contract. But entering into a contract with an impaired mental state means the contract is null and void, because the person can't, or most likely can't, possibly know what they're agreeing to. It's the entire reason why minors can't enter into a contract and why there's an age of consent at all.

Breaking a car window while drunk? That's an action entirely of your own volition, albeit you may not realize you did it. Saying yes while drunk? That's saying something without possibly knowing the consequences, and whoever got you to say yes will be seen as a predator who takes advantage of people. If you don't like it, I suggest you don't get black out drunk. That's something all those college movies made for high schoolers didn't show.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Men who go out and intentionally rape are (likely) sociopaths. No amount of advertising is going to stop them.

That's too easy. You don't have to be a sociopath to commit horrible acts like rape, history is full of normal people who have done terrible things. It's tempting to draw a line between "us" and "them", but it's not so simple.

It's long been documented that people who have been the victim of abuse are more likely to become perpetrators (not exclusively sexual, though). That is, they have learned to be that way. If they'd been taught otherwise, they might not have ended up criminals.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

I don't feel it's BLAMING the victim, I feel it's WARNING the victim and their friends. Yes of course it's the rapist's fault, but you have to look out for each other when drinking to prevent yourself from being in that sort of state in the first place. Don't let each other drink to that point, and don't encourage it either. Just as you shouldn't walk in shady places at night, you shouldn't encourage your friend to drink themself passed the point of being able to "say no" if you're in a crowd that might take advantage of you.

In any case, an anti-rape ad would be ineffective and useless. Just like any other ad to not commit crimes. Ads like this--encouraging the possible victims to look out--are the only way to effectively prevent attacks.

 

[Kaytastrophe]

This is ridiculous, what I am getting from this is: be careful ladies because there are men (though few) who would take advantage of drunk women, don't put yourself in this situation. It is not blaming them it is merely stating a possible situation and how to avoid it. It is a means to bring awareness and prevention, not blame anyone. We teach women self defense courses to prevent rape, why not provide information on other ways to prevent it.

Telling someone to take precaution does not translate into blaming them when bad things happen; it is merely minimizing the risk of said bad thing happening to you. This is why we lock our doors when we go to work, this is why we avoid certain areas of town at night, or why we don't give away our personal information online, because we taking precautions to protect our safety and this ad is no different.

 

[plugav]

I wouldn't react so extremely to the text of the ad (though the photo seems highly inappropriate). It's important to teach people to look out for each other when they're out drinking.

That said, some of the responses I've read in this thread really justify Mastrine's points...

Yes, you should be aware that certain actions make you an easy target. But rape, like theft or murder, is never the victim's fault. You know who else argues that it is? Rapists.
Also, do you know what it means when you say "only psychopaths commit rape?" It means the rapists are never accountable for their actions. That they deserve our pity, actually, because they're sick and can't control themselves.
Can you see the stupidity of these arguments, or do you need me to draw a picture?

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

I wouldn't react so extremely to the text of the ad (though the photo seems highly inappropriate). It's important to teach people to look out for each other when they're out drinking.

That said, some of the responses I've read in this thread really justify Mastrine's points...

Yes, you should be aware that certain actions make you an easy target. But rape, like theft or murder, is never the victim's fault. You know who else argues that it is? Rapists.
Also, do you know what it means when you say "only psychopaths commit rape?" It means the rapists are never accountable for their actions. That they deserve our pity, actually, because they're sick and can't control themselves.
Can you see the stupidity of these arguments, or do you need me to draw a picture?

Yes, rape is never the victim's fault. However, the question is whether or not having sex with someone who consented while under the influence of alchohol should be considered rape. As I have stated many times before, people should be held accountable for the stupid decisions they make. If someone chooses to get drunk enough to the point they can't control what they do, they shouldn't be able to complain when they do something they'll regret when they sober up.

 

[Sjakie]

'rape culture'

lolwut?

The idea that men in the"civilized" world are rapists, rape supporters, and monsters waiting to rape women. Its a sexist ideology for both parties because it portrays men as monsters and women as nothing but weak fools. It is the idea that our society is built upon this culture and it is constantly destroying women's advances every day. Rape culture is a bull shit idea thought up by feminist studies that is an all around horrid idea. Its the idea that women are under the boot of men and so oppressed that rape is easy for a man to get away with, the law supports men whole-heartedly, and that rape is in itself worse than murder. Thats right rape; the act of violating someone sexually is worse than the act of removing them from existence. Rape cul;ture is what you get if you distill dumbassery, roll it down a hill covered in stupid, and let it snowball for 3-4 miles.

But you want to know how they prove it? well one of them is the fucking penny arcade dick-wolves joke. The one where they ignore the last tortured slave because the quota is filled.

Oh, i got most of that from the term allready. Nice of you to put it down in whole.
The questionmark was more about how somebody could get that twisted idea in their head, present it as a valid viewpoint and claim it to be true.

Mmmm...

Somebody who is rather twisted...maybe they got twisted because they had a traumatizing experience...like getting raped.
Somebody needs to see a therapist and it aint the rapists in this case.

(those should see the prison doctor to get chemically sterilized)

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Anyone who knows law might be able to help me with this: if someone comes up to me and asks me to give them say a thousand dollars, and I, while under the influence of alchohol, agree to give them the money (and actually give it to them), would that mean the person stole the money off me because I was drunk when I agreed to it?

 

[Captain Booyah]

And how would you even go about teaching this "Don't rape" message? I agree with the sentiment, but normal guys don't need to be told not to rape women. If you are a rapist, then a poster telling you it's bad probably isn't going to make a whole lot of difference.

If you consider yourself a rapist, yes. Alot of men who commit rapes don't, that what they are doing isn't that bad, really.

That's what I mean. There doesn't seem much of a way to get through to someone who doesn't even realise that what they're doing is wrong.

Hey? Aren't they the ones that need to be told?

Oh yeah, of course. It just isn't such an easy task as putting up a few posters and hoping they'll pay attention.