So, how many dudes here roll a female character? Also vice versa?

Something Amyss

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the December King said:
Well, this is rather interesting to me, because, and I beg your pardon if I'm being blunt, but I suspect that you might already have a special insight into this.
Because I'm devastatingly witty? Left-handed? Empress of all ferretkind?

I'm just having fun. I know what you mean.

I don't really understand gender dysphoria beyond being told that you were born a sex that you don't feel you are. So why is that? Is it a feeling, or is it more biological?
Gender identity is something we don't have a concrete answer to at this point. It's like sexuality in that there doesn't seem to be a single, direct factor, but it's suggested that there are biological components and there may even be strictly hereditary factors because the chances of another sibling being trans rise greatly when one is. When you're talking about a population that's less than a percent of the general populace and you have significant rises, there's probably something to that. But that there's likely some sort of connection is all we know.

But my point of view is very likely worthwhile here, and I'll get to that with a quote I missed until Beliyal quoted you:

the December King said:
Women and men are different, otherwise transgender people must be wasting their time and energy, fretting over nothing at all.
I'm not sure how that really follows. Well, not in this sense. The idea that men and women are different is actually sort of a no-brainer to me. That there is some sort of delineation between the two that is highlighted by trans individuals. But I wouldn't say that those differences necessarily apply here.

The reason I say this is personal experience and anecdotal, so take it as such. At the same time, I've been accepted by men as a man and woman as a woman without any sort of major change in personality or outward behaviour. I would think if there was some sort of essential difference between the two in a relevant sense here, in terms of behaviour, that one would have to modify their behaviour in order to be accepted. This is not to say that I have never had problems, or that you don't run into people who are, say, assholes, but on a basic level, my conduct appears to be acceptable both for a man and for a woman. Mostly, at least.

I mean, I can't entirely rule out the possibility that women as a whole have decided to adopt me and take pity on me and my actions are seen as the equivalent of being raised by wolves, but...nobody's really made an effort to correct or change me. Except, ironically, within the trans community itself. Which sort of makes sense, because there was a time in my own life where gender norms (and sometimes rather extreme ones) were still pushed as a condition for attempting to transition and especially if you sought surgery. When you use conformity as the carrot or the stick, you're going to get an attitude of conformity.

But on the whole, it doesn't seem like there's that much difference. This similarity may not seem so obvious externally, I don't know. I was actively discouraged from playing with girls as a kid, and encouraged to play with the boys instead. And I didn't see a huge amount of difference then and I don't see a huge amount of difference now. There are things I'm rather hesitant to get into in the line of this conversation that may somewhat alter matters, but I think the main thrust might be the visibility issue. Get some of my female friends together and they would very likely make you blush. And this seems to be a fairly common thing that is quite likely not perceived so much because the opposite is propagated by pop culture.

As this pertains to making a believable RPG character, though, what I said to Beliyal is still worth paying attention to: it really does depend.
elvor0 said:
Is this something that actually happens? Because I don't buy it. I don't think I've ever seen anyone shitting on the idea of a game having a female protagonist because she would be incapable. Do you not remember how fucked off people were about Other M? It's part of the reason TR2013 rubs me up the wrong way because the marketing and the game to some extent feels the need to bang me over the head about how capable she is "for a girl" despite original Lara kicking so much arse without need to prove herself that her shoes smelled permanently of shit.

I'm pretty sure this is just something the publishers of Bioshock Infinite told us was something that happens and people making up boogymen without it actually happening. Okay maybe Return of Kings, but those guys are absolute cunts in such a small minority as to not actually matter.
For complaints about a female protagonist, one need only look at The Escapist community's response to Assassin's Creed Unity (where it was justified that there were four white men before we knew they were all Arno) and Syndicate (where it was bellyached that there was a female deuteragonist. And I call her that rather than a protagonist because she's still secondary to Jacob inthe story and the publishers told us that and people still complained). Or you can go look at Twitter, or KIA, or probably any social media outlet of your choice, I don't know.

And, I mean, you can call RoK cunts, but they're not the only ones who bellyache over this crap. I could start linking you to videos of people who aren't from ROK who whine about this, but how many would it take? One? Five? Fifty? I suspect that no number of videos I could provide would constitute sufficient "proof."
 

The Purple Grape

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Yes but it is usually because they have the better voice acting than the male one.

Jennifer Hale in Mass Effect
Courtenay Taylor in Fallout 4
Laura Bailey is the only true voice for The Boss
Jo Wyatt is still hilarious as Sarcastic Hawke
Xanthe Elbrick as the female Sith Inquistor is so deliciously evil everything she says is amazing.

As for when they are not voiced, its more of a 50/50 split as I make way too many characters for some games. Although some I keep a certain gender for the sake of cannon, like the Jedi Exile is always female.
 

the December King

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Something Amyss said:
Thanks for the response- I do appreciate personal anecdotes, and especially in this case. I guess it makes sense that this can be a more complicated issue than just a black and white answer, but for the most part, the difference gender makes on character creation for role playing can be small, negligible even.

You know, back on topic and looking back on it, I do play female characters, just never even remotely human ones.

One example I'm personally having fun with is a sci-fi race called simply the 'Nul'- a galaxy-spanning empire built by a race of arachnid geneticists whose race has entered a deep slumber near their homeworld, and their slave worlds are free to thrive. Most of their females were diplomats and artists and made up the upper caste of the Nulish empire, and the females alone, thanks to their size and flexibility, can assume vaguely humanoid shapes- they make the perfect playable race. There were other castes and genders with assigned roles, but the rest of the empire is lost, or in somnolence...only a few of the diplomats and rogue Nulish colonies are still active.

This is Ja'a, First Voice of the Nulish, and she believes that her status as a diplomat for her people makes her waaay more important than she really is, but deep down, she has already begun to suspect that she is being used as a pawn to start a war. Her fascination with the mammalian races has led to strange alliances, and the revelation that some of these creatures can be intelligent has begun to cause her genuine concern for them... and what her people may rise up to do to their worlds...
 

Yuuki

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If it's a 3rd-person game where I can actually SEE my character, then female all the way. Much better to look at.

If it's a 1st-person game then it doesn't really matter.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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the December King said:
Something Amyss said:
Popular culture is sort of self-reinforcing. There is a fuss right now about a black cowboy in the new version of the Magnificent Seven because it's not historically accurate, because most people get their history from TV. In fact, a good chunk of "cowboys" weren't white. They were either black or of Hispanic/Latinx descent.

But, I mean, that's why I say it depends. If you want to make a black cowboy, it had better be a comedy with people going "a-WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?" and "up yours, [N-word]!" or people will balk.
The fuss I'd kick up about remaking The Magnificient Seven is that there can not possibly be any Yul Brenner, and thus... what's the tossing point?
Or Steve McQueen, or Robert Vaughn, and both Charles Bronson and James Coburn are both too old to help elevate the remake. The other thing I don't get is that it seems to be about a whole township being taken over - like a proper town - which is something I think the US Cavalry would object to.
 

Something Amyss

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Beliyal said:
Yeah, that's true. Unfortunately. We receive so much of our "knowledge" from popular culture and outdated material that it's legitimately strange to people when something is actually historically correct. I mean, we should look no further than dinosaurs. No one will risk making a movie with feathered dinosaurs. We learned they are giant dragon-like lizards and that's it.
I've actually heard people complain about science "ruining" dinosaurs for them. Like, unironically, unless their sense of humour is even dryer than mine. I think the Jurassic Park books even address this, sort of, by saying they edited the dinosaurs to make the version people would want to see. It's been a while, I could be misremembering.

Dragon lizards are cool, though. Just...not historical fact. Similar to the Roman statue example. Admittedly, I like the clean white look. Also admittedly, it's very likely that I prefer it that way because that's what I grew up with. That was and is the popular perception, so it's what I knew for ages.

I do think it's valuable to try and fight stuff like that. As my field is about history, I often do my best to fix people's perceptions about certain stuff. I guess someone who has enough money and can afford the risks could actually make stuff like that work and fight back the often wrong perceptions people have of history. One of the things that irk me professionally are movies about antiquity where everything is white. Not just the people, but the surroundings. Listen fellas, antiquity was rainbow colored. Everything was painted. Everything. With the worst color combinations imaginable (to us). But I guess a Roman statue looking like this [https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d6/69/a4/d669a4f6319e62388e676d8223cd2b42.jpg] would literally make people's heads spin. However, if we train ourselves to begin seeing this as a historically accurate norm, maybe in several decades no one will care.

Same goes for everything else, like race and gender. It will certainly change with time, but we have to keep pushing it. I'll gladly be the one to push, even though my writing is also probably too terrible to publish. But I will believe, goddammit!
I'm inclined to agree, even though I'm more of a history casual. The reason I brought up CSI is because I've actually been in arguments over some of the stuff they do that I have practical experience with and I'm like "I've literally done this stuff before, you can't kill someone with it. At least, not like that!" and people will argue with me. Hell, I know someone who does the sort of work from the show who just sort of...sighs.

For the most part, I can enjoy something that's not accurate, but it sort of bugs me when people think it really is. I'm kind of a nerd. I know, I know, the odds of finding a nerd on a site that deals in video games and sci-fi are slim, but yeah. I like to know my stuff, even if I choose to ignore it down the line. Which I do.

I guess I just sort of wish more people could enjoy something as cool without taking it as gospel. I mean, it actually is of interest to me the way genre flicks evolve. Like, I remember when 90s period pieces started really becoming a big thing, and thinking how awesome it was to see historically accurate representations of...yeah, that only lasted a couple of years, but still. I remember the feeling, and it's sort of interesting to realise people used to (and sometimes still do) think those movies from the 50s or 60s were accurate depictions. The past looks corny and the future looks fake, I guess.
 

RedRockRun

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Jul 23, 2009
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I hardly ever roll a female character first, but I usually end up doing so at some point.
 

elvor0

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Something Amyss said:
elvor0 said:
Is this something that actually happens? Because I don't buy it. I don't think I've ever seen anyone shitting on the idea of a game having a female protagonist because she would be incapable. Do you not remember how fucked off people were about Other M? It's part of the reason TR2013 rubs me up the wrong way because the marketing and the game to some extent feels the need to bang me over the head about how capable she is "for a girl" despite original Lara kicking so much arse without need to prove herself that her shoes smelled permanently of shit.

I'm pretty sure this is just something the publishers of Bioshock Infinite told us was something that happens and people making up boogymen without it actually happening. Okay maybe Return of Kings, but those guys are absolute cunts in such a small minority as to not actually matter.
For complaints about a female protagonist, one need only look at The Escapist community's response to Assassin's Creed Unity (where it was justified that there were four white men before we knew they were all Arno) and Syndicate (where it was bellyached that there was a female deuteragonist. And I call her that rather than a protagonist because she's still secondary to Jacob inthe story and the publishers told us that and people still complained).
What, you mean the uproar about AC Unity where there was a massive amount of complaints about it /not/ having a female character in the line up before we all knew they were Arno? Then we all ripped the piss out of Ubisoft when they said that making a female character would be too hard and take too many resources.

And personally all the complaints I personally saw leveled at the woman in Syndicate were that she was OP for essentially having MGS style Stealth Camo, not that she was a woman. It feels like you're equating complaints /about/ female protagonists as complaints /against/ female protagonists here.

Something Amyss said:
I suspect that no number of videos I could provide would constitute sufficient "proof."
I said "I don't think I've ever seen anyone shitting on the idea of a game having a female protagonist because she would be incapable", not that I'm discounting "proof". I honestly haven't ever seen it. I don't know if I just don't hang around the right areas, I exclusively use Twitter to keep my eye on devs and my social media most certainly doesn't have anyone shitting on female protagonists.
 

felbot

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My first character is usually a man but all my characters after that are usually female unless im going for a specific character type.

Only exception is if there aren't any skimpy or lewd outfits then I usually go male anyway.
 

votemarvel

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If given the choice in role playing games I will pick a female character, simply because it forces me to role play rather than just make the choices I would in those situations. I think on what the character would do (with their backstory, motivations etc) rather than make the choices I would just make.
 

Beliyal

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Something Amyss said:
For the most part, I can enjoy something that's not accurate, but it sort of bugs me when people think it really is. I'm kind of a nerd. I know, I know, the odds of finding a nerd on a site that deals in video games and sci-fi are slim, but yeah. I like to know my stuff, even if I choose to ignore it down the line. Which I do.

I guess I just sort of wish more people could enjoy something as cool without taking it as gospel. I mean, it actually is of interest to me the way genre flicks evolve. Like, I remember when 90s period pieces started really becoming a big thing, and thinking how awesome it was to see historically accurate representations of...yeah, that only lasted a couple of years, but still. I remember the feeling, and it's sort of interesting to realise people used to (and sometimes still do) think those movies from the 50s or 60s were accurate depictions. The past looks corny and the future looks fake, I guess.
Yeah, same. I can totally enjoy something historically inaccurate, but I do wish we as a society made more effort to make sure people learn the real thing as well. Especially when it comes to inclusion and diversity. To so many people, it's weird to have people of color in Europe pre-modern times because we got so used to seeing that everyone is white that we simply cannot process that it wasn't the actual case. It becomes tiring to debate this and women's roles and the fact that sexualities other than straight weren't invented 50 years ago.
 

JohnnyDelRay

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ravenshrike said:
JohnnyDelRay said:
a more dialogue driven game like Fallout 4 where I can actually intimidate and smash people in the face...
*does not compute* Dialogue driven? No. Barely even dialogue assisted. There is no important difference in your dialogue choices beyond choosing faction X over factions Y,Z, and Q. apart from a very few persuade actions.
Okay, my poor choice of words, I'll give you that. What I meant to say is, you can resolve some things peacefully, and choose to smash people in the face. Sometimes. Results rarely vary, yes.

I know there's not much in terms of dialogue choice and effect, first mod I even installed was the full dialogue interface.
 

BabySinclair

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50/50, single player RPGs because I want to see if there's different dialogue or content based on sex and MMOs because I like not having the same character model across every character.
 

aozgolo

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In most cases the gender has little influence on it, I will get an idea of the type of character I want, and they can be male or female.

In cases where I prefer visual aesthetic I will often go for female, mostly to enjoy the "dressing up" part of gameplay as I get them new items and equipment.

In some cases I've chosen to play a male character solely due to the romance options in the game.
 

Gamerpalooza

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Very rarely but I do. Some games don't give me a choice.

Per se in Fighting games, JRPGs, and MOBAs sometimes they don't give me a choice, if the female character is fun I'd play them. In MMO's I make my secondary characters female and try out other roles to get a better picture of what I can expect healers/tanks/dps then just have them sitting as bank/storage alts.
 

IKE-TT

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I usually choose female character. Mostly beacuse there there are plenty of games where you can only play as male, so when there's a choice it's nice to go with a female for a chance. And I don't usually like the way male characters are designed...
 

FalloutJack

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It depends on what it is and what my mood is. As a writer, though, I have made male and female characters. I have not really explored many other choices available in my and do not wish to write one like that unless I feel I can do them justice.
 

kajinking

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I chose a Female avatar in Warframe because I just prefered it's voice options over the male versions.
 

darkcalling

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Guy here. I nearly always play female characters when given the option. I find theat the guys are often too much a big slab of meat and never gets as many (or as good looking) clothing and or armor options. I never really Role-play the character in any way though.

Heck when given the option I rarely play as a HUMAN. I played an argonian in Oblivion and Skyrim, an elf in Dragon Age: Origins and a Qunari in Inquisition.
 

Estarc

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I am a male that prefers to play as a female in nearly any game. This ranges from games like the Saints Row series where you can dress your avatar up however you want (from awesome to sexy to crazy and more) to the Souls videogames where your avatar's gender is never acknowledge and hidden up under whatever outfit best suits your defensive needs to top down, isometric RPGs like Pillar's of Eternity and the old infinity engine games.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't appreciate an attractive female avatar from time to time, but that's never been my primary motivation. I just enjoy playing as a female more nine times out of ten. I've tried playing games that let you create a PC of male or female gender as both in separate play throughs and I usually enjoy playing as a male significantly less and abandon the play through. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is a game I've played through about ten times. I only tried it once as a male PC and I hated it.

There are the rare exceptions every few years though. Leon from Resident Evil 4 is one of my most beloved video game characters ever for example.