So I just beat The Outer Worlds and...I'm kinda feeling like playing Skyrim again.

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I bet that's not the usual reaction people have with the outer worlds. I sure didn't hear anything of the sort being said by people before going into this game, what with it being praised as the bethesda killer and the game that made fallout obsolete and so on.

The Outer Worlds epitomizes the "less than the sum of its parts" concept. I wanna start this with all the good stuff so I won't be overly negative. The game takes its roleplaying very seriously. It gives you incredible freedom in how to tackle things and how your choices affect the way the world reacts. It works to take seriously the non-combat approaches and almost always gives you a way to avoid combat if you want to. Also the science guns were fun.


Sadly, for all of those good points, they never quite translate into fun in the way you'd expect. I think a big part of this is that the entire world the game builds is fundamentally...well...lame. Really really uncool. The character designs are either generic (in the case of the masked space soldiers) or terribly ugly in the case of the people. Not sure who picked those hair-styles but I wouldn't entrust them with my mane. Skyrim had ugly models here and there but you could at least see where the designs were trying to go with it and it was more an issue of rendering them badly and fallout had genuinely charming characters. Sadly, all this adds up to the point where I never really got to feel I was doing something cool. It feels like a very depressed game where you're engaged in a Sisyphean task throughout its entirety and your coolest moment is making a shitty situation slightly less shitty. You never truly feel heroic basically. I'm all for morally gray stories but just because the choices you make are gray it doesn't mean that the result should be bland as well.

Another negative stems from one of the positives mentioned above. Due to the game's support for non-combat playstyles, it gives you WAY WAY WAY too much experience for doing basic things, and very little experience for combat. This is compounded by the fact that the plot often discourages combat by having it come at a penalty with your standing towards one faction or another. This is one of those cases where "realistic" roleplaying just makes the game boring, because yeah if you shoot at the guards of this company it makes sense they'll all like you less but by making the most efficient way of resolving situations talking to people and convincing or tricking them you remove a lot of the gravitas out of these events. Playing it feels legitimately like the bureaucracy the game spends all its effort criticizing.


And on that mark, lets touch on the story a bit. The companions are interesting chars, liked all of them. Everyone else was practically worthless though. I never cared about the people I was harming or helping in this game. They all were unlikeable and impossible to relate with. The story was overly one-note, playing the same joke about the authoritarian capitalist dystopia over and over. By the time I was doing the early retirement mission I knew what was gonna happen. Hell I think I actually knew what was going on there before I even got the mission when I was walking past the area for the first time.


So yeah, adding all this stuff, somewhere around the part where I was wrapping up the last few sidequests which basically just entailed a lot of fast traveling and talking to npcs, I started feeling like playing Skyrim again. I had played fo4 somewhat recently but skyrim I've not touched in 5 years if not more and I dunno what it was about it but I kept thinking about all the cool things you could do in that game while I was here talking to this girl's life insurance provider and regretting my completionist personality.

I dunno what the point of this topic is outside of me ranting about how underwhelming this game ended up being. Maybe a warning to others who haven't played it and heard people praise it to high heaven? Yeah, lets go with that haha.
 

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I also don't get the praise for The Outer Worlds. For whatever reason, I actually did get into the game to the point where I was always wanting to play it but I really don't know why honestly. The writing is lacking and probably only OK at best, I expect more from Obsidian. Pretty much every character felt like a poor man's version of their obvious Firefly counterpart. The combat was, again, just OK and rather repetitive feeling. The world(s) aesthetics was easily the game's biggest bright spot and it was nice to get something wasn't this great big open world but small yet open sections of each world. The game's role-playing decisions felt lackluster and seemed to be more and more absent as the game went on where the 1st world is probably the strongest in the game (even though it itself isn't amazing or anything). I think The Outer Worlds just had the perfect timing for release; Bethesda was fucking up like every week and it was the norm for AAA games to be buggy, unfinished, and full of microtransactions. The Outer Wilds merely gave up the whole game upfront, was competent, and looked good.

I currently totally enveloped by Divinity Original Sin 2, it's so fucking good.
 

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I think The Outer Worlds just had the perfect timing for release; Bethesda was fucking up like every week and it was the norm for AAA games to be buggy, unfinished, and full of microtransactions. The Outer Wilds merely gave up the whole game upfront, was competent, and looked good.

I currently totally enveloped by Divinity Original Sin 2, it's so fucking good.
In the Land of the Blind, the one eyed man is king. Pretty much this, that Outer Worlds was doing s competant job compared to Besthesdas costant bed shitting and that's what most people were comparing it too.

Sadly, Games like Divinity Original Sin and DIsco Elysium don't ping peoples radars the same way the Outer Worlds, Fallout and Skyrim does. Both games are a bit more complex(Divinity's Combat and character Build system certainly so) and Disco is too....Political and Esoteric for a fair number of people.
 
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I also don't get the praise for The Outer Worlds.
Because it's not made by Bethesda and done by former Fallout developers. I have no interests in OW either, but that is more so that I don't bother with RPGs anymore.

Disco is too....Political and Esoteric for a fair number of people.
Esoteirc I get, but how in the hell is Disco too political? Sounds like people are throwing in or projecting their own politics that have nothing to do with the game.
 

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Esoteirc I get, but how in the hell is Disco too political? Sounds like people are throwing in or projecting their own politics that have nothing to do with the game.
It has real world politics or something very much like it in the game(complete with Communist, Ethno-fascism, Neo-liberal, and Traditionalist/Religious factions), though for some people the hint of anything "Politics in muh games" is enough to throw them into fits. Even if the political background/world building in Disco is one of the most complex and nuanced I've seen in a game and one of the reasons I love it.

Granted, I'm not sure I'd ever be able to play as a an Entno-Facist since(beside the general odious nature of it) it would disappoint Kim and that's by far the worst ending.
 
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meiam

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Because it's not made by Bethesda and done by former Fallout developers. I have no interests in OW either, but that is more so that I don't bother with RPGs anymore.



Esoteirc I get, but how in the hell is Disco too political? Sounds like people are throwing in or projecting their own politics that have nothing to do with the game.
Disco Elysium is extremely political, you deal with unions for most of the game in a country that had a former communism (iirc) revolution. The main story isn't political but the setting is dripping with it.

Haven't touched outer world yet, still waiting for the steam version, but obsidian did seem to lose some of their writing talent (not sure if it actually lost personal?). Pillar of eternity 2 was not very interesting from the written side of things, none of the character were interesting and I couldn't care less about the main story (especially since you can't ask some very obvious question when force to make big choice).

I think game should go away from rewarding player based on small interaction and instead reward them for completing objective, say you have to infiltrate a compound, no matter how you do it you should get the same amount of exp (with maybe some bonus objective).
 

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I also don't get the praise for The Outer Worlds. For whatever reason, I actually did get into the game to the point where I was always wanting to play it but I really don't know why honestly. The writing is lacking and probably only OK at best, I expect more from Obsidian. Pretty much every character felt like a poor man's version of their obvious Firefly counterpart. The combat was, again, just OK and rather repetitive feeling. The world(s) aesthetics was easily the game's biggest bright spot and it was nice to get something wasn't this great big open world but small yet open sections of each world. The game's role-playing decisions felt lackluster and seemed to be more and more absent as the game went on where the 1st world is probably the strongest in the game (even though it itself isn't amazing or anything). I think The Outer Worlds just had the perfect timing for release; Bethesda was fucking up like every week and it was the norm for AAA games to be buggy, unfinished, and full of microtransactions. The Outer Wilds merely gave up the whole game upfront, was competent, and looked good.
I think the Outer Worlds was slick but slightly dull.

My feeling is that they wanted to create something with the feel of the Fallout series, which of course their forerunner company created the IP for before it departed to the competent if slightly lacklustre care of Bethesda. I think there are great acts of creation, but not that many people are capable of them. A model is produced, and then inferior talents analyse it for what they perceive works, and create a by-the-numbers equivalent. Fallout 3 and 4 felt quite like this: repeat the same tricks, because the players seemed to like it last time. Unfortunately, it descends into diminishing returns and staleness. The Outer Worlds was very by-the-numbers, perhaps because I felt it was trying to recreate a Fallout comedy cynicism.

and Disco is too....Political and Esoteric for a fair number of people.
Yeah well, if people don't want a game because it contains ideas deeper than they want to think, they can always be recommended Tetris.
 

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Yeah well, if people don't want a game because it contains ideas deeper than they want to think, they can always be recommended Tetris.
But that's where you're wrong. Tetris is also POLITICAL!


If people don't like politics in their games, there's always Metal Gear. That series is super simple and devoid of any politics/complex ideas whatsoever.
 
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Disco Elysium is extremely political, you deal with unions for most of the game in a country that had a former communism (iirc) revolution. The main story isn't political but the setting is dripping with it.
It has real world politics or something very much like it in the game(complete with Communist, Ethno-fascism, Neo-liberal, and Traditionalist/Religious factions), though for some people the hint of anything "Politics in muh games" is enough to throw them into fits. Even if the political background/world building in Disco is one of the most complex and nuanced I've seen in a game and one of the reasons I love it.
Understood. I've said before, and I will say it again, gamers have become oversensitive pussies, bitches-in-a-boxstand, or want be to mindless sheep to satisfy their pathetic egos or have a "safe space". Becoming no different than Jack Thompson, Anita Sarkesian, and Extra Credits. Every year I find fictional mad men like Schwartzwald makes more sense in hindsight because of fools like them. And it just ain't gamers either.


But there's where you're wrong. Tetris is also POLITICAL!
Still love that video. One of my favorite top ten 10 YT videos of all time.
 

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So I guess the praise this game got was just a reactionary act in response to that online fallout sucking then? Was that just it? Wew, people are foolish if so and can't see straight.

In the Land of the Blind, the one eyed man is king. Pretty much this, that Outer Worlds was doing s competant job compared to Besthesdas costant bed shitting and that's what most people were comparing it too.

Sadly, Games like Divinity Original Sin and DIsco Elysium don't ping peoples radars the same way the Outer Worlds, Fallout and Skyrim does. Both games are a bit more complex(Divinity's Combat and character Build system certainly so) and Disco is too....Political and Esoteric for a fair number of people.
No see, I love Divinity. It's just not a comparable experience at all to TES or fallout or this game. These games are more about exploration and loot harvesting like a busy beaver and so on, whereas Divinity is a very tightly-packed old school turn based epic.


Basically, they scratch completely different itches in my book.


As for the politics, I actually liked how this game portrayed its anti-capitalist message. It was funny and satirical but you could see it be almost plausible. What I didn't like was how they conflated the hyper capitalist authoritarian worldview with an aesthetic reminiscent of the chinese communist revolution, where men and women wore the same generic outfits that hide your body and were treated as indistinguishable. To me, this society would make more sense to have an aesthetic closer to the glory days of the world in Bioshock 1 if anything. Even the people in the rich city were all dressing in a genredless and conformist way, when I'd expected them to have crazy Hunger Games style fashion.


In general, I go back to this, the actual planets and environmental design was cool but the character and hairstyle art and so on was just really lame. To the point it was off-putting lol. Nothing half as cool as fallout's jetpack power armor was anywhere to be seen.
 
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No see, I love Divinity. It's just not a comparable experience at all to TES or fallout or this game. These games are more about exploration and loot harvesting like a busy beaver and so on, whereas Divinity is a very tightly-packed old school turn based epic.
I love Divinity for exploration though, I love that all the content is so densely packed together, you're always running into interesting things.
 

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I love Divinity for exploration though, I love that all the content is so densely packed together, you're always running into interesting things.
It's a different sort of exploration than Skyrim where you're like "I'll head west" and you run into a million different things on your path. Divinity feels more like trying to find hidden treasures smartly placed in obscure spots that you can only access if you fly or teleport to them and things like that. I tackle that in a more "lets see what's hidden around here" way whereas Skyrim is like "there's a huge world out there, I wonder what I'll come across in my adventure today".


So yeah Divinity has exploration, really good one at that, and I love it too, but I don't think Divinity is ABOUT the exploration nearly as much.
 

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No see, I love Divinity. It's just not a comparable experience at all to TES or fallout or this game. These games are more about exploration and loot harvesting like a busy beaver and so on, whereas Divinity is a very tightly-packed old school turn based epic.

Basically, they scratch completely different itches in my book.
I'm playing Divinity 2 right now(Pretty much almost done at this point) and I really like it, but yeah, I agree. It's like a Modern take on old school D&D RPGs like Balders gate. Which is very rewarding IF you can get your head into how the game works and like that sort of game. Whereas Skyrim and Fallout have a much gentler barrier to entry and thus broader appeal.

To be honest, I didn't really get Balders Gate when I played it 20 years ago but Divinity 2 is pretty much what I wanted Balders Gate to be back then but easier to play(well, relatively speaking. It has better QoL then I remember BG having).
 
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It's a different sort of exploration than Skyrim where you're like "I'll head west" and you run into a million different things on your path. Divinity feels more like trying to find hidden treasures smartly placed in obscure spots that you can only access if you fly or teleport to them and things like that. I tackle that in a more "lets see what's hidden around here" way whereas Skyrim is like "there's a huge world out there, I wonder what I'll come across in my adventure today".


So yeah Divinity has exploration, really good one at that, and I love it too, but I don't think Divinity is ABOUT the exploration nearly as much.
Apparently the game oriignally was planned to have each Race's homeland be visited and the 4 maps in the game were originally just the human homeland map. The scale proved to be far too big, they cut the rest of the homelands(which explains a bit, honestly) and divided the human realm into the 4 main maps we got. Which is still a lot to comb over.

Am I a little sad there's like 5/6(allegedly) that we didn't get to see? yeah. Did they make the right decision to scale back? It looks like it. I mean, I'm 80 hours in at the endgame. I can only imagine how huge the game would have been if had been of a much larger scale.
 

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I think they might have changed it, but originally divinity had such absurd number scaling then exploration was really not rewarded, you might find this incredible legendary weapon but 1-2 level later you'd replace it with grey trash. And side quest exp reward were essentially negated since all the side quest exp in one zone would be less than the very first quest in the next zone.
 

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I think they might have changed it, but originally divinity had such absurd number scaling then exploration was really not rewarded, you might find this incredible legendary weapon but 1-2 level later you'd replace it with grey trash. And side quest exp reward were essentially negated since all the side quest exp in one zone would be less than the very first quest in the next zone.
I had the opposite case, where I was exploring in some area I wasn't supposed to be at and chanced at a way higher than my level mace which I could still use.


But yeah the sidequests are there for the story, not for the exp. This is actually one of the issues I mentioned about the outer worlds above. Combat barely gives you any exp but just doing a random quest gives you tons of it. Really makes combat feel pointless.

I'm playing Divinity 2 right now(Pretty much almost done at this point) and I really like it, but yeah, I agree. It's like a Modern take on old school D&D RPGs like Balders gate. Which is very rewarding IF you can get your head into how the game works and like that sort of game. Whereas Skyrim and Fallout have a much gentler barrier to entry and thus broader appeal.

To be honest, I didn't really get Balders Gate when I played it 20 years ago but Divinity 2 is pretty much what I wanted Balders Gate to be back then but easier to play(well, relatively speaking. It has better QoL then I remember BG having).
Well, it's a good thing the divinity people are making Baldur's Gate 3 then haha.
 

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The game was so well received initially, because for an Obsidian(or Bethesda...) release it was a complete, relatively stable and bug free(or so i heard) product. And also a Fallout ersatz, so yearned after the complete disaster that F76 was.
And while delivered on it, looks like at the same time lacked some of the *magic* and was just okay, and less deep than initially expected. In other words(hue) it plays more like Obsidian's "Greatest Hits" than a fresh new experience.
 

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The game was so well received initially, because for an Obsidian(or Bethesda...) release it was a complete, relatively stable and bug free(or so i heard) product. And also a Fallout ersatz, so yearned after the complete disaster that F76 was.
And while delivered on it, looks like at the same time lacked some of the *magic* and was just okay, and less deep than initially expected. In other words(hue) it plays more like Obsidian's "Greatest Hits" than a fresh new experience.
I think the lack of bugs is more due to the relatively small size of the game more than anything else. I did everything you can do in a single playthrough and I don't think I played more than 50-60 hours or so.

Also, there's way less "you wander down the street and randomly there's a talking dog!" kind of stuff and stuff people do when they lead their lives based on a procedurally generated system, which can be buggy. It's a lot more regimented and stiff. You get to do way more things in the way you approach your quests and how you resolve them than in Skyrim but the confines of your playground are way more limited.
 

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I think they might have changed it, but originally divinity had such absurd number scaling then exploration was really not rewarded, you might find this incredible legendary weapon but 1-2 level later you'd replace it with grey trash. And side quest exp reward were essentially negated since all the side quest exp in one zone would be less than the very first quest in the next zone.
That's why I play with a mod that automatically levels up gear. I hate loot systems for that very reason because it just equates to unneeded inventory management.