So I just read the female Thor comics...

happyninja42

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And holy shit did they ramp up the male chauvinistic piggotry of Odin. I mean dear god, it practically dripped off the pages. Was he always like that in the comics? I've never read Thor before, but he seems a little too distilled male deuchery to believe. Is this just something they did to hammer home the "A woman can do it for herself too!" kind of theme of the comic, or has he always been this big of a dick?
 

Queen Michael

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I've read Thor comics before, and I can't recall ever seeing Odin act like that. I haven't been following the comics religiously. One year I'll buy an entire arc. Four years later I'll buy another. But I've never seen that, no.
 

Kolby Jack

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Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
 

Queen Michael

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Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
I know the other examples, but could you name when Johns did this?

And another example would be Brian Azzarello's Hellblazer run, where he wrote John Constantine quite differently from the other writers. But hey, it made for good comics.
 

happyninja42

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Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
Oh trust me, I'm well aware of this, I used to work in a comic shop, it just felt so blatant, and I was curious if Odin had always been portrayed as the overbearing dick of a dad stereotype, or if this was an obvious change for the new run. An asshole male patriarchal figure for her to rebel against and show that she's just as good as any man. Which sadly seems to be a very heavy angle they are taking with this story so far. Bummer too, because I'm kind of liking it so far, but the "ho ho ho, what have we got here little lady" bullshit from, well basically everyone with a penis so far is getting kind of annoying.
 

Kopikatsu

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Happyninja42 said:
Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
Oh trust me, I'm well aware of this, I used to work in a comic shop, it just felt so blatant, and I was curious if Odin had always been portrayed as the overbearing dick of a dad stereotype, or if this was an obvious change for the new run. An asshole male patriarchal figure for her to rebel against and show that she's just as good as any man. Which sadly seems to be a very heavy angle they are taking with this story so far. Bummer too, because I'm kind of liking it so far, but the "ho ho ho, what have we got here little lady" bullshit from, well basically everyone with a penis so far is getting kind of annoying.
I remember Odin being a responsible and effective ruler, far from someone who would judge based on something as immaterial as race or sex. I mean, he took Loki in and all.
 

DeimosMasque

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During and After "Fear Itself" Odin went from wise to noble leader to "Scary Asshole who's been hiding shit for years." After Fear Itself he decided to abandon his subjects and basically has been living as a reclusive until brought back into the fray by Loki during "Original Sin"

So yeah, he's a bit of a major dick now a days, especially with the added revelation of his war with the Angel race and the loss of his daughter (to be raised by said Angels.) But the trend of he and the others "good" gods possibly not being all that good started with JMS's run on Thor a bit after (or was it before, suddenly can't recall) "Secret Invasion."
 

DementedSheep

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He is sometimes and he's not other times from what I've read (note: I buy complete arcs most of the time, I don't follow a series and read every issue). It's the same with how much of a prat he is to his kids. Odin seems to switch around a fair bit depending on who is writing him. He seems to be leaning a lot more towards asshole lately. I don't know what he was like originally.
 

Zontar

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DeimosMasque said:
During and After "Fear Itself" Odin went from wise to noble leader to "Scary Asshole who's been hiding shit for years." After Fear Itself he decided to abandon his subjects and basically has been living as a reclusive until brought back into the fray by Loki during "Original Sin"

So yeah, he's a bit of a major dick now a days, especially with the added revelation of his war with the Angel race and the loss of his daughter (to be raised by said Angels.) But the trend of he and the others "good" gods possibly not being all that good started with JMS's run on Thor a bit after (or was it before, suddenly can't recall) "Secret Invasion."
JMS's run on Thor had Odin and the other 'good' gods become more grey, but the changes that have so dramatic that two of the three comic book stores I frequent don't even carry Thor's comics anymore because they just don't sell now (this from once being one of the more popular comics just a few years ago). Short of Rocket Racoon I haven't seen this type of sudden downturn since, well, ever. I wonder how long it'll go on because the change back to the status quo we've all know has been coming since the first announcement will be.
 

Kolby Jack

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Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
I know the other examples, but could you name when Johns did this?

And another example would be Brian Azzarello's Hellblazer run, where he wrote John Constantine quite differently from the other writers. But hey, it made for good comics.
Johns was single-handedly responsible for bring Barry Allen back to life after his 20 years of death, sidelining the popular Wally West to a couple of minor appearances after that, and then pretty much erasing him from existence with the new 52, all because Barry Allen was the Flash when he was a kid reading comics and he liked Barry more. He also had the concept that Superboy was a half-human clone, with the human half of his DNA coming from Lex Luthor, when he was a teenager (he wrote in a fan letter to DC theorizing this) but the original creator said no on the grounds that it was a dumb idea. Cue Johns working at DC years later and writing for Superboy, suddenly it becomes the case.
 

Veldel

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Kolby Jack said:
Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
I know the other examples, but could you name when Johns did this?

And another example would be Brian Azzarello's Hellblazer run, where he wrote John Constantine quite differently from the other writers. But hey, it made for good comics.
Johns was single-handedly responsible for bring Barry Allen back to life after his 20 years of death, sidelining the popular Wally West to a couple of minor appearances after that, and then pretty much erasing him from existence with the new 52, all because Barry Allen was the Flash when he was a kid reading comics and he liked Barry more. He also had the concept that Superboy was a half-human clone, with the human half of his DNA coming from Lex Luthor, when he was a teenager (he wrote in a fan letter to DC theorizing this) but the original creator said no on the grounds that it was a dumb idea. Cue Johns working at DC years later and writing for Superboy, suddenly it becomes the case.
reminds me of some of the stuff from Young Justice. I liked how they used half DNA of supes and lex and how it played into his story.

Felt bad for Wally he was treated as the weakest flash.
 

Seishisha

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All the impressions i ever gained about odin was that he was a sly old dog, with hidden agenda's often doing somthing that seemed reprehensible but in fact was a good act over all, he is the all-father he cares for all asgard not just one citizen so its easy to write him as misleading, the entire story arc of how he makes thor humble by striping his powers is a prime example of this.

From what i gather of the new thor's odin though is that he was wrote as a dick just to be a foil for the new thor, which is lazy at best.
 

Kolby Jack

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Veldie said:
Kolby Jack said:
Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
I know the other examples, but could you name when Johns did this?

And another example would be Brian Azzarello's Hellblazer run, where he wrote John Constantine quite differently from the other writers. But hey, it made for good comics.
Johns was single-handedly responsible for bring Barry Allen back to life after his 20 years of death, sidelining the popular Wally West to a couple of minor appearances after that, and then pretty much erasing him from existence with the new 52, all because Barry Allen was the Flash when he was a kid reading comics and he liked Barry more. He also had the concept that Superboy was a half-human clone, with the human half of his DNA coming from Lex Luthor, when he was a teenager (he wrote in a fan letter to DC theorizing this) but the original creator said no on the grounds that it was a dumb idea. Cue Johns working at DC years later and writing for Superboy, suddenly it becomes the case.
reminds me of some of the stuff from Young Justice. I liked how they used half DNA of supes and lex and how it played into his story.

Felt bad for Wally he was treated as the weakest flash.
Wally was the STRONGEST Flash. He far surpassed Barry and Bart never was as fast as him. It's a bit of a sore spot for me because Wally is my favorite superhero.

I liked the Lex-DNA thing in Young Justice as well, but just because it worked out doesn't make it less of a case of Johns' meddling with established characters to fit his views.
 

immortalfrieza

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Happyninja42 said:
And holy shit did they ramp up the male chauvinistic piggotry of Odin. I mean dear god, it practically dripped off the pages. Was he always like that in the comics? I've never read Thor before, but he seems a little too distilled male deuchery to believe. Is this just something they did to hammer home the "A woman can do it for herself too!" kind of theme of the comic, or has he always been this big of a dick?
The answer is Odin has always been that big of a dick. He lies constantly, is a manipulator that puts Loki to shame, will destroy anyone who opposes him for even the most petty of things without any guilt whatsoever, and demands complete and total obedience from everyone at all times including ordering them to their deaths if need be without any consideration for their feelings or desires. Odin is basically every bad father/bad ruler trope rolled into one and the only thing that keeps him on the side of good at all instead of being an outright villain is that most of the time his bigger actions lead to benefiting everybody in the end, but most of his actions are unnecessary and are him just being a dick.

I'll bet money that when Thor inevitably gets the hammer back it'll turn out to have all been some "test" Odin devised for him and Thor was actually worthy the whole time. Odin pulls crap like that all the time.

I've been reading the entire run of Thor comics and while I'm nowhere close to the current comics at the moment and probably won't be for a long time, this news doesn't surprise me at ALL.
 

Queen Michael

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Kolby Jack said:
Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
I know the other examples, but could you name when Johns did this?

And another example would be Brian Azzarello's Hellblazer run, where he wrote John Constantine quite differently from the other writers. But hey, it made for good comics.
Johns was single-handedly responsible for bring Barry Allen back to life after his 20 years of death, sidelining the popular Wally West to a couple of minor appearances after that, and then pretty much erasing him from existence with the new 52, all because Barry Allen was the Flash when he was a kid reading comics and he liked Barry more. He also had the concept that Superboy was a half-human clone, with the human half of his DNA coming from Lex Luthor, when he was a teenager (he wrote in a fan letter to DC theorizing this) but the original creator said no on the grounds that it was a dumb idea. Cue Johns working at DC years later and writing for Superboy, suddenly it becomes the case.
That superboy thing is indeed extremely stupid. But if I remember Final Crisis correctly, that's where Barry Allen was brought back, and that one was written by Grant Morrison.
 

Kolby Jack

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Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
I know the other examples, but could you name when Johns did this?

And another example would be Brian Azzarello's Hellblazer run, where he wrote John Constantine quite differently from the other writers. But hey, it made for good comics.
Johns was single-handedly responsible for bring Barry Allen back to life after his 20 years of death, sidelining the popular Wally West to a couple of minor appearances after that, and then pretty much erasing him from existence with the new 52, all because Barry Allen was the Flash when he was a kid reading comics and he liked Barry more. He also had the concept that Superboy was a half-human clone, with the human half of his DNA coming from Lex Luthor, when he was a teenager (he wrote in a fan letter to DC theorizing this) but the original creator said no on the grounds that it was a dumb idea. Cue Johns working at DC years later and writing for Superboy, suddenly it becomes the case.
That superboy thing is indeed extremely stupid. But if I remember Final Crisis correctly, that's where Barry Allen was brought back, and that one was written by Grant Morrison.
Barry did come back in Final Crisis, but Geoff Johns wrote "The Flash: Rebirth" series dealing with his return. I'm pretty sure Johns was the one who wanted Barry Allen back, but I can't find an exact statement to that fact yet. Johns also was one of the big brains behind New 52 which erased Wally from existence. I generally like Johns' writing, but I really hate how he handles the Flash.
 

Veldel

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Kolby Jack said:
Veldie said:
Kolby Jack said:
Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
I know the other examples, but could you name when Johns did this?

And another example would be Brian Azzarello's Hellblazer run, where he wrote John Constantine quite differently from the other writers. But hey, it made for good comics.
Johns was single-handedly responsible for bring Barry Allen back to life after his 20 years of death, sidelining the popular Wally West to a couple of minor appearances after that, and then pretty much erasing him from existence with the new 52, all because Barry Allen was the Flash when he was a kid reading comics and he liked Barry more. He also had the concept that Superboy was a half-human clone, with the human half of his DNA coming from Lex Luthor, when he was a teenager (he wrote in a fan letter to DC theorizing this) but the original creator said no on the grounds that it was a dumb idea. Cue Johns working at DC years later and writing for Superboy, suddenly it becomes the case.
reminds me of some of the stuff from Young Justice. I liked how they used half DNA of supes and lex and how it played into his story.

Felt bad for Wally he was treated as the weakest flash.
Wally was the STRONGEST Flash. He far surpassed Barry and Bart never was as fast as him. It's a bit of a sore spot for me because Wally is my favorite superhero.

I liked the Lex-DNA thing in Young Justice as well, but just because it worked out doesn't make it less of a case of Johns' meddling with established characters to fit his views.
Oh I know about Wally he is also my favorite of the speedsters and hope he's portrayed well in Flash.


I havnt read much in comics for Superboy so I can't judge outside of the Young Justice show. Which I hate was canned for that dumb teen Titans Go crap.

I sometimes wish for a new justice League show continuing from Unlimited with it being split into the various groups of it. I'd love for a JLD story.
 

laggyteabag

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That is just how comics work. Hell, why do you think that there are so many universes? Characters can change at the whim of one writer no matter how long the character has existed beforehand. Prime example: Thor is now a woman (well, you know what I mean by "Thor").
 

Queen Michael

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insaninater said:
I don't see how you expected anything else from an alternative comic which exists only to make Thor into a woman.
That's not really what "alternative comic" means. Alternative comics are the kind of different stuff made by Chris Ware, Lynda Barry and Dan Clowes.
Kolby Jack said:
Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Queen Michael said:
Kolby Jack said:
Welcome to comics, where characters' attitudes, opinions, and entire histories can change based on the whims of a single writer who, rather than take the challenge of writing what they may not have expected to write, instead warp the entire continuity to suit how THEY feel it should have been all along until another writer comes in and changes everything again. See: Iron Man being a fascist in Civil War, Spider-man sacrificing his marriage and future child to save the life of his elderly aunt by making a literal deal with the devil, or Geoff Johns' entire career.
I know the other examples, but could you name when Johns did this?

And another example would be Brian Azzarello's Hellblazer run, where he wrote John Constantine quite differently from the other writers. But hey, it made for good comics.
Johns was single-handedly responsible for bring Barry Allen back to life after his 20 years of death, sidelining the popular Wally West to a couple of minor appearances after that, and then pretty much erasing him from existence with the new 52, all because Barry Allen was the Flash when he was a kid reading comics and he liked Barry more. He also had the concept that Superboy was a half-human clone, with the human half of his DNA coming from Lex Luthor, when he was a teenager (he wrote in a fan letter to DC theorizing this) but the original creator said no on the grounds that it was a dumb idea. Cue Johns working at DC years later and writing for Superboy, suddenly it becomes the case.
That superboy thing is indeed extremely stupid. But if I remember Final Crisis correctly, that's where Barry Allen was brought back, and that one was written by Grant Morrison.
Barry did come back in Final Crisis, but Geoff Johns wrote "The Flash: Rebirth" series dealing with his return. I'm pretty sure Johns was the one who wanted Barry Allen back, but I can't find an exact statement to that fact yet. Johns also was one of the big brains behind New 52 which erased Wally from existence. I generally like Johns' writing, but I really hate how he handles the Flash.
I did read the Rebirth series years back... My first contact with Barry Allen. Didn't like him as much as I liked Wally.