So Monster Hunter World

TheMysteriousGX

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Commanderfantasy said:
It's a video game. And yes it would. A creature that looses a tail, would no longer try to hit you with that tail, yet monster in MHW will still spin their backs at you as if trying to wap you with a tail.

Even still. Video game is a video game.
Yes, the enraged, non-sapient monster in incredible pain from having one of its appendages lopped off by some tiny prey mammal might not have the most rational of attack strategies.

You know the monsters don't learn from this sort of experience, right? Because you kill them?

(Though it would be fun to run into Ol' Stumpy, the Anjanath I keep cutting the tail off of but never killed.)
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Commanderfantasy said:
Kerg3927 said:
The OP's complaints actually make me want to check it out when it comes out on PC this fall. A game with challenging boss fights that requires one to study and understand the mechanics of the game and develop and execute appropriate strategies sounds fun.
read post #44 and see if you still think that.
You basically described Doom. I mean, what's the difference between the plasma rifle and the shotgun besides different numbers. I mean, all you do is shoot the bad guys until they fall down.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Seth Carter said:
High-rank monsters od get expanded movesets, too. The ones you fight in the story are sort of the watered down versions. Which is a design choice, though one that kind of baffles me somewhat in games. Destiny for example, was another game where tons of stuff from Legendary gear to coloring your outfit was locked in the post-game. Its an odd design logic, where the narrative compulsion is separated from the deeper tiers of gameplay, which doesn't give off a great first impression sometimes.

As to Anjanath, hit him with water if he starts sparking in the mouth, it stops him from breathing fire. Tobi Kadachi right before him (in the story) takes extra damage if you hit his electric charged bits with water (Or if you want to skip him charging up, hit him with flash pods or scatternuts when he jumps up on trees). Barroth and other monsters that use sand/mud armor get it broken instantly by water attacks.

For raw damage though, the elemental bonus gets kind of lost. Most elemental weapons do less base damage then the raw physical ones in the same tier, which cuts off most of the bonus damage. Its not really noticeable until you start getting into the high end.
The trick there is high attach speed weapons. A 120 Elemental damage rating does the same damage on a Great Sword as it does the dual knives, so take the weapon that gets to swing a lot.
 

Ravenbom

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Yeah, I really wanted to make the jump into Monster Hunter and try it out since it's combat reminds me a bit of Dark Souls.

BUT, I really don't have friends to walk me through as a newb, and frankly, I feel that the 3DS would have been the way to learn how to play Monster Hunter because it's just easier to explain things during in-person multiplayer.


But the main reason I didn't get it was because I still have last years shame pile sitting in a corner (sorry Persona 5, I will finish you someday) and there's already games I'm really interested in this early in the year, like Shadow of the Colossus PS4 and SFV Arcade and Bayonetta 2 for Switch and of course if I really want to dive into Monster Hunter because it looked a little like Dark Souls, why don't I just get Dark Souls on the Switch in a few months and have my favorite game always ready to go?
 

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altnameJag said:
Commanderfantasy said:
It's a video game. And yes it would. A creature that looses a tail, would no longer try to hit you with that tail, yet monster in MHW will still spin their backs at you as if trying to wap you with a tail.

Even still. Video game is a video game.
Yes, the enraged, non-sapient monster in incredible pain from having one of its appendages lopped off by some tiny prey mammal might not have the most rational of attack strategies.

You know the monsters don't learn from this sort of experience, right? Because you kill them?

(Though it would be fun to run into Ol' Stumpy, the Anjanath I keep cutting the tail off of but never killed.)
Monster Hunter Nemesis system! That'd be cool. Like the elder Dragon you fight over and over again without ever killing it, but each time you fight it you break something on it so it starts to really hate you during additional fights. Each encounter could be scripted in a way that the monster fights you differently everytime.

Come to think of it, they could have done that to a lesser degree. What if instead of the monster having set attacks like they do now. Give the monsters a pool of attacks and every time one of those monsters spawns, it spawns with a set number of attacks in a pool. That way the monster will be a different fight everytime because it will have a varied moveset for each encounter. This could allow fighting the monster one time in a certain way, not work for the next time you fight it, thus making the player have to think more strategically.

SAMAS said:
Was you can knock the armor off the Barroth, but this isn't required. I beat Juryados and the Barroth, without bothering to knock of the mud fairly easily. I use S&S with the poison element and I haven't needed to switch weapons for anything yet. (and honestly the grind bored me so I'm not even playing the game anymore, except when a friend wants to play) The point I was trying to suggest was to make these elemental types, or armor breaking REQUIRED, not just options. Options allow players to mindlessly fight and eventually win. But when a monster actually objective based goals required to defeat it, that's when the player is forced to think about the fight and pulls them into the game more.

Now I'm not saying my examples are perfect or even good, they are merely ideas. And not every monster needs to be a puzzle with hurdles to jump through in order to beat it. Normal beatdown monsters are fine and can even help relieve stress from fighting complex creatures. But every monster shouldn't be that way.

As for the video. I don't have a link I was watching someone named "Orderofthesilverphoenix" on Twitch.tv fight the thing. You might be able to find the video in a past broadcast or something, but he streams for 8+ hours at a time and I happened to catch him fighting the thing in the middle of a stream somewhere. Sorry, because I'd love to show you the video that gave me that impression in the first place.
 

CriticalGaming

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altnameJag said:
Commanderfantasy said:
Kerg3927 said:
The OP's complaints actually make me want to check it out when it comes out on PC this fall. A game with challenging boss fights that requires one to study and understand the mechanics of the game and develop and execute appropriate strategies sounds fun.
read post #44 and see if you still think that.
You basically described Doom. I mean, what's the difference between the plasma rifle and the shotgun besides different numbers. I mean, all you do is shoot the bad guys until they fall down.
Different game styles. Doom is about just going ragenuts on some demons and doesn't pretend to have complex strategic approaches. You run and you gun.

You can't compare games that are trying to do different things (clearly) together.

I mean I could say that all first person shooting games are basically just point and clicks right? All you do is point and click, so it's a point and click. But that's not actually a fair comparison is it.

Same thing here.

And with a game like monster hunter where it is trying to provide players basically a boss rush, crafting game, all I'm trying to say is that it's boss fights are fairly disappointing imo. The monsters don't really provide much in the way of variety. I'm not saying the game can't be challenging, and I'm not saying the game is outright bad. I'm merely saying that it could be better.

People have made the excuse, "Oh well it's the first monster hunter on a main console", but to me that's a dumb excuse. MH has been around forever, and there is no reason why the DS games or the Wii games or any of these games could have evolved the monsters in all this time. I've looked at previous games, MH 3 and 4, Generations, etc, and they are all the same thing. The monsters haven't changed. The Barroth in MHworld, fights exactly like the Barroth from 3, with the same mechanics of washing off the mud if you want. How does a game just not evolve in anyway like that?

I guess people just love getting the same game over and over with better graphics each time. And MHW certainly provides a beautiful graphic upgrade.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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SAMAS said:
Actually, there are quite a few shows out there where the first season or two is rough, then gets really good. Stargate SG-1, Babylon 5, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, and such.

That said, Monster Hunter usually does have you facing your first large monster in less than an hour, depending on how fast you go through the tutorial. Your encounters usually start with the "Great Drome" monsters because, frankly, the bigger stuff tends to paste you even when you do have those early fights under your belt.

Those Elder Dragons are like Final and Bonus Boss fights. The meat is stuff like the Rathalos, Lavasioth, and Anjanath(to say nothing of Lagiacrus, Zinogre, Tigrex, Brachydios, and the like from other games). Dude, the only thing better gear gives you is a better chance. Even with optimal weapons and armor, any monster at any difficulty level can cart you in seconds if you don't know how to fight it.

That has always been the meat of Monster Hunting. To read the Monster's "tells", know the limitations of it's attacks, and how to best exploit them with the weapons and equipment you have. To know how many times that Wyvern is gonna turn around and charge you again before it falls over and gives you a chance to sharpen your weapon, reload, or attack it with your biggest combo/swing. What the pattern/sweep of it's ranged attacks are so you can stand in a safe angle and hit it with your bowgun. When it's hungry enough to eat that drugged meat you dropped so you can sleep bomb it. What paths it usually takes when roaming so you can find it, what and where it eats when tired, or where it sleeps when it's wounded. If using a certain trap on it will only make it stronger, or if a certain bomb will just piss it off.
I am going to give MHW a whirl at some point, it's just that I heard how grindy the previous games were and I hate grindy games. I very rarely play RPGs now (not that MH is an RPG) because of how little the vast majority of them value the player's time. A game like Borderlands would be so much better without the looting aspect or at least save that until endgame because there's no reason to get an orange gun if you're not max level because it will be useless in an hour or so, then you have to find something to replace it. You spend way too much time doing inventory management for literally no reason in most RPGs or games with a loot system. Even in a Souls game (which is very light on inventory management), you only up your stats / upgrade you weapon to be able to kill enemies in the same 3-4 hits that you were just doing for the next dungeon of slightly tougher enemies, literally nothing changes. Just keep damage the same throughout if I'm just upgrading my stuff to continue making the game the same. The reason I like Borderlands is due to the skills and character builds that change gameplay, looting just gets in the way of the fun.

Commanderfantasy said:
The point I was trying to suggest was to make these elemental types, or armor breaking REQUIRED, not just options. Options allow players to mindlessly fight and eventually win. But when a monster actually objective based goals required to defeat it, that's when the player is forced to think about the fight and pulls them into the game more.
That's exactly what I want out of a monster fighting game, a way to take down monsters in a way that makes sense because hitting some dragon in a Souls game over and over in the chin is not what I call a good boss fight. As long as that is in the game, I don't really care if you can just hit monsters over and over again in the chin and win as long as there are "proper" ways to fight the monsters. Most games have some kinda easy or lame way to beat everything. In Horizon, you can just freeze any machine and quick-shot the enemy to death with arrows in like 30 seconds. I choose not to do that because that's not fun to me. Or Dishonored can be played in a really easy and repetitive manner but the game gives the player almost limitless creativity and that's what I love about them. I haven't played MHW or any MH game, and I have a feeling when I do I'll either love it or hate it.
 

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altnameJag said:
Seth Carter said:
High-rank monsters od get expanded movesets, too. The ones you fight in the story are sort of the watered down versions. Which is a design choice, though one that kind of baffles me somewhat in games. Destiny for example, was another game where tons of stuff from Legendary gear to coloring your outfit was locked in the post-game. Its an odd design logic, where the narrative compulsion is separated from the deeper tiers of gameplay, which doesn't give off a great first impression sometimes.

As to Anjanath, hit him with water if he starts sparking in the mouth, it stops him from breathing fire. Tobi Kadachi right before him (in the story) takes extra damage if you hit his electric charged bits with water (Or if you want to skip him charging up, hit him with flash pods or scatternuts when he jumps up on trees). Barroth and other monsters that use sand/mud armor get it broken instantly by water attacks.

For raw damage though, the elemental bonus gets kind of lost. Most elemental weapons do less base damage then the raw physical ones in the same tier, which cuts off most of the bonus damage. Its not really noticeable until you start getting into the high end.
The trick there is high attach speed weapons. A 120 Elemental damage rating does the same damage on a Great Sword as it does the dual knives, so take the weapon that gets to swing a lot.
Yeah, I caught a video on that one. I gunlance main, so element doesn't do me a whole lot of good, lol. Although Blast element seems to upgrade my shelling, I think.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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This bow video really got me super interested in the game. I think I might have to get pick up the game really soon and I just finished Shadow Tactics today.

 

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Phoenixmgs said:
Although his praise for Nier Automata doesn't really instill the greatest amount of confidence into his opinions.
wait what's wrong with Nier? why isn't it good?
 

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Bombiz said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Although his praise for Nier Automata doesn't really instill the greatest amount of confidence into his opinions.
wait what's wrong with Nier? why isn't it good?
Nier isn't anything too special. I played the first one; a couple good characters with a somewhat decent anime-ish story that has more and more holes in it the more you think about it and the gameplay can't be called anything better than average with variety being the only thing that keeps it from getting super repetitive. I played the demo for Automata and the gameplay while feeling much better because of Platinum, but it doesn't have any depth to it either. So just gameplay-wise, you're left with a combat system not nearly on par with a real Platinum game and it's also longer than a Platinum game too. I always ask then what's the point of playing it for the hours it needs when the gameplay is only good for like a 10 hour game at best? If the story does end up being something special (very doubtful considering the first game), then why not just watch it on Youtube instead of playing it? From playing the demo, the characters weren't all that interesting and Automata definitely doesn't have a Kaine or Weiss. How is a game a masterpiece when you can almost certainly skip the actual "playing" of it to get the good stuff?

---

So I did pick up Monster Hunter World and so far (like 10 hours in), it's OK to decent. There is quite a bit of clunkiness you have to learn to overcome with regards to the controls and I'm not sure if the combat will ever feel great. The game has way too many systems in place. For example, eating food; if I'm supposed to eat food to up my health/stamina, why not just give me extra base health/stamina and make eating just allow for skill bonuses and nothing else? The game could still use a lot of streamlining. There's just so much other stuff you are doing like fishing that isn't fighting monsters, I just want to fight monsters. Horizon eliminates just about all that kinda downtime along with far less loading (there's a loading screen to get to your freaking room). Also, the game tells you almost nothing about how stuff actually works (it's worse than a Souls game) like you get a bounty to capture a monster (but you're not told how to do that) or how mounting works.
 

sXeth

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Phoenixmgs said:
So I did pick up Monster Hunter World and so far (like 10 hours in), it's OK to decent. There is quite a bit of clunkiness you have to learn to overcome with regards to the controls and I'm not sure if the combat will ever feel great. The game has way too many systems in place. For example, eating food; if I'm supposed to eat food to up my health/stamina, why not just give me extra base health/stamina and make eating just allow for skill bonuses and nothing else? The game could still use a lot of streamlining. There's just so much other stuff you are doing like fishing that isn't fighting monsters, I just want to fight monsters. Horizon eliminates just about all that kinda downtime along with far less loading (there's a loading screen to get to your freaking room). Also, the game tells you almost nothing about how stuff actually works (it's worse than a Souls game) like you get a bounty to capture a monster (but you're not told how to do that) or how mounting works.
The Fishing is completely optional. A couple of alternate consumables if you're dead set on pinching pennies, but nothing too noteworthy other then completionists sake.

About 4 main quests in, there's an optional quest that tutorializes capturing. Do the optional quests. Several act as tutorials, and several add mitigation to some of the grinding (particularly the Botanical research for a ranged character, which unlocks growing your own plants for ammo/coating).

The canteen is definitely overly complex. Getting anything out that other then always taking the Chef Choice platter for max health/stamina basically requires a wiki/video tutorial to handle. Even then, most of the utility is hard to trigger without finishing all or most of the ingredient adding deliveries and quests, several of which trigger kind of randomly. Even knowing the food setup I want, and having most ingredients unlocked, I still have to fiddle with it to get the optimal result because the fresh ingredients are RNG.
 

SAMAS

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Commanderfantasy said:
altnameJag said:
Commanderfantasy said:
It's a video game. And yes it would. A creature that looses a tail, would no longer try to hit you with that tail, yet monster in MHW will still spin their backs at you as if trying to wap you with a tail.

Even still. Video game is a video game.
Yes, the enraged, non-sapient monster in incredible pain from having one of its appendages lopped off by some tiny prey mammal might not have the most rational of attack strategies.

You know the monsters don't learn from this sort of experience, right? Because you kill them?

(Though it would be fun to run into Ol' Stumpy, the Anjanath I keep cutting the tail off of but never killed.)
Monster Hunter Nemesis system! That'd be cool. Like the elder Dragon you fight over and over again without ever killing it, but each time you fight it you break something on it so it starts to really hate you during additional fights. Each encounter could be scripted in a way that the monster fights you differently everytime.

Come to think of it, they could have done that to a lesser degree. What if instead of the monster having set attacks like they do now. Give the monsters a pool of attacks and every time one of those monsters spawns, it spawns with a set number of attacks in a pool. That way the monster will be a different fight everytime because it will have a varied moveset for each encounter. This could allow fighting the monster one time in a certain way, not work for the next time you fight it, thus making the player have to think more strategically.

SAMAS said:
Was you can knock the armor off the Barroth, but this isn't required. I beat Juryados and the Barroth, without bothering to knock of the mud fairly easily. I use S&S with the poison element and I haven't needed to switch weapons for anything yet. (and honestly the grind bored me so I'm not even playing the game anymore, except when a friend wants to play) The point I was trying to suggest was to make these elemental types, or armor breaking REQUIRED, not just options. Options allow players to mindlessly fight and eventually win. But when a monster actually objective based goals required to defeat it, that's when the player is forced to think about the fight and pulls them into the game more.
I think the problem with that is if you simply have to "break" the armor by hitting it, then it's just effectively a visual aid to let you know you've depleted a certain amount of hit points. And if you have to break it with certain weapons or tools, then it limits the options players have. If you have to use say, blunt force, to break the armor, then it restricts hunters to using Hammers, Bowguns(kinda) and Hunting Horns. If you have to use Cutting weapons, Then you can't use Hammers and Horns. If you have to use a certain elemental damage type..., well, they kinda did that already with the Agnaktor. Now it was a rather soft application, yes, But otherwise it becomes a Basarios/Gravios or worse Monoblos/Diablos hunt only moreso.

And to be fair, it might be possible to do in World, but ONLY World. Trying that extreme a mix-and-match in the earlier games, before you could go back to camp and switch weapons? Oh hell no.

Now I'm not saying my examples are perfect or even good, they are merely ideas. And not every monster needs to be a puzzle with hurdles to jump through in order to beat it.
To be fair, it's not that it's a puzzle to beat, but that strategy and movement-reading is necessary to avoid getting turned into a red smear before you can do it.

Normal beatdown monsters are fine and can even help relieve stress from fighting complex creatures. But every monster shouldn't be that way.
That's usually what happens when you've learned a monster's style well enough. You get one or two that become so easy for you that can just hunt them for a warm-up.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Seth Carter said:
The Fishing is completely optional. A couple of alternate consumables if you're dead set on pinching pennies, but nothing too noteworthy other then completionists sake.

About 4 main quests in, there's an optional quest that tutorializes capturing. Do the optional quests. Several act as tutorials, and several add mitigation to some of the grinding (particularly the Botanical research for a ranged character, which unlocks growing your own plants for ammo/coating).

The canteen is definitely overly complex. Getting anything out that other then always taking the Chef Choice platter for max health/stamina basically requires a wiki/video tutorial to handle. Even then, most of the utility is hard to trigger without finishing all or most of the ingredient adding deliveries and quests, several of which trigger kind of randomly. Even knowing the food setup I want, and having most ingredients unlocked, I still have to fiddle with it to get the optimal result because the fresh ingredients are RNG.
I did that capture quest like a day after you posted.

MHW and Shadow of the Colossus are sorta like the same game but at different ends of the spectrum if that makes sense. MHW has like a million ancillary mechanics where Shadow is just here's 16 bosses and all you get a is bow, sword, and horse. Horizon basically feels like a super streamlined MHW minus all the clunk as well. I fought my first Barroth and had trouble because the game doesn't give you the tools to fight it really. Apparently, it's weak to water when covered in mud and fire when not. That's cool and all but I don't think I have access to fire or water attacks, at least this early with the 2 weapons I'm using (bow and insect glaive). Whereas in Horizon, you always had the tools, you just needed to figure it out. MHW, you need to go to a wiki to figure it out. You have that monster book pointing out weaknesses but even that isn't very readable as does more stars mean a monster is weaker or stronger to something, I don't know. I've been watching Youtube videos about the game as they pop up on my Youtube feed now and I find out stuff like armor is only useful for the skills certain pieces provide vs actually being armor. Why can't I then pick the armor that I like the looks of and put like gems/whatever on it that give those desired bonuses? You're tied to specific armors based on your weapon of choice then. Even then those skill bonuses aren't clear as what they actually do like I don't know what Stamina Thief actually does. I never had to lookup a single thing with Horizon, it all made perfect sense with what everything did. Back to the cooking, I don't even have the Chef's Choice platter as an option, I seriously don't even know where it's at. I was trying to customize the radial wheel and it all got reset so I had to lookup how to actually save it and it has to do something with the item box and saving loadouts or something. I'm not even sure if I saved it but it at least hasn't reset for the one mission I played. There's just so much elements and mechanics that are here that really don't add to the complexity of the game and they are mainly there just to make the player sift through a desert of sand just to get their desired playstyle.

Anyway, with that huge ass paragraph, I am enjoying the game overall, it's just that there's so much streamlining that could be done. I read that World had many "quality of life" changes so I don't even wanna know what other shit was in the game before this.
 

sXeth

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I can't recall offhand if one of the bows could do fire or water by that point, but you do have poison from the Pukei Pukei, which is the Barooth's other (and consistent whether its got mud or not) weakness. The environment can help out too, as there's Torch and Water moss stuff for your arm slinger around. The Dragon Piercer arrow also will prettymuch just instantly break the Barroth's entire armor in one shot through it, more or less.

Horizon was more streamlined in general, yeah. Though I remember some definite awkwards to it, from never explaining how fire and other status buildups worked (granted, neither does Monster Hunter, or Dark Souls with the same system to it). Or what tear damage and tear blast arrows even were meant to do.

Armor is very definitely important as armor. Granted, you can spend money/armor orbs to more or less even out almost any set, so thats where the skill options start to take precedence. But it costs to upgrade a Rarity 1 armor to the defense of a Rarity 4. The monsters that dp use actual elemental attacks (while a little sparse, and a little fire heavy in the games roster) will also punish negative defense with some nasty potential one-shots. (You can pretty safely ignore water defense, as the only water attack in the game is the mud from Barroth and Jyuratodus (the fish right after him. There's also only one ice monster, and ice blights more of a slightly inconvenience overcome by basic stamina management. Dragon is thus far only used by the final boss).
 

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Seth Carter said:
I can't recall offhand if one of the bows could do fire or water by that point, but you do have poison from the Pukei Pukei, which is the Barooth's other (and consistent whether its got mud or not) weakness. The environment can help out too, as there's Torch and Water moss stuff for your arm slinger around. The Dragon Piercer arrow also will prettymuch just instantly break the Barroth's entire armor in one shot through it, more or less.

Horizon was more streamlined in general, yeah. Though I remember some definite awkwards to it, from never explaining how fire and other status buildups worked (granted, neither does Monster Hunter, or Dark Souls with the same system to it). Or what tear damage and tear blast arrows even were meant to do.

Armor is very definitely important as armor. Granted, you can spend money/armor orbs to more or less even out almost any set, so thats where the skill options start to take precedence. But it costs to upgrade a Rarity 1 armor to the defense of a Rarity 4. The monsters that dp use actual elemental attacks (while a little sparse, and a little fire heavy in the games roster) will also punish negative defense with some nasty potential one-shots. (You can pretty safely ignore water defense, as the only water attack in the game is the mud from Barroth and Jyuratodus (the fish right after him. There's also only one ice monster, and ice blights more of a slightly inconvenience overcome by basic stamina management. Dragon is thus far only used by the final boss).
I was using the insect glaive during the Barroth quest. I'm almost positive I can make a bow that can do poison damage. From the videos I've watched about World, I'm not sure how great the statuses are because they become harder and harder to do during fights as monsters build up resistances (same goes for mounting). So is poisoning a Barroth probably like twice in a fight worth it? How much damage is the poison actually going to cause?

One of the great things about Horizon was that it was far easier to experiment. Just buy upgraded versions of the weapons because what else are you going to buy. Then, try out what fire or freeze does. Whereas in World, you actually have to make a weapon with said stuff wasting possibly precious monster parts that might've been better used to make something else. In Horizon, it just comes down to pulling up your radial dial and switching arrow types to experiment vs making a whole new weapon in World to accomplish that. Sure, I didn't know instantly how everything worked in Horizon but it wasn't hard to realize that white ring circle building up around that icon above the machine was your progress in applying a status effect. World in comparison has no visual aides for that kinda stuff.

Armor doesn't seem that important for actual defense. I'm still literally wearing the base armor with no upgrades whatsoever and I haven't had trouble dying too much even when not even knowing how most of the mechanics even work. I know the bone armor is much better and has great newbie skills attached to the pieces but I don't like how it looks so I didn't make any of it.
 
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Phoenixmgs said:
Seth Carter said:
I can't recall offhand if one of the bows could do fire or water by that point, but you do have poison from the Pukei Pukei, which is the Barooth's other (and consistent whether its got mud or not) weakness. The environment can help out too, as there's Torch and Water moss stuff for your arm slinger around. The Dragon Piercer arrow also will prettymuch just instantly break the Barroth's entire armor in one shot through it, more or less.

Horizon was more streamlined in general, yeah. Though I remember some definite awkwards to it, from never explaining how fire and other status buildups worked (granted, neither does Monster Hunter, or Dark Souls with the same system to it). Or what tear damage and tear blast arrows even were meant to do.

Armor is very definitely important as armor. Granted, you can spend money/armor orbs to more or less even out almost any set, so thats where the skill options start to take precedence. But it costs to upgrade a Rarity 1 armor to the defense of a Rarity 4. The monsters that dp use actual elemental attacks (while a little sparse, and a little fire heavy in the games roster) will also punish negative defense with some nasty potential one-shots. (You can pretty safely ignore water defense, as the only water attack in the game is the mud from Barroth and Jyuratodus (the fish right after him. There's also only one ice monster, and ice blights more of a slightly inconvenience overcome by basic stamina management. Dragon is thus far only used by the final boss).
I was using the insect glaive during the Barroth quest. I'm almost positive I can make a bow that can do poison damage. From the videos I've watched about World, I'm not sure how great the statuses are because they become harder and harder to do during fights as monsters build up resistances (same goes for mounting). So is poisoning a Barroth probably like twice in a fight worth it? How much damage is the poison actually going to cause?


One of the great things about Horizon was that it was far easier to experiment. Just buy upgraded versions of the weapons because what else are you going to buy. Then, try out what fire or freeze does. Whereas in World, you actually have to make a weapon with said stuff wasting possibly precious monster parts that might've been better used to make something else. In Horizon, it just comes down to pulling up your radial dial and switching arrow types to experiment vs making a whole new weapon in World to accomplish that. Sure, I didn't know instantly how everything worked in Horizon but it wasn't hard to realize that white ring circle building up around that icon above the machine was your progress in applying a status effect. World in comparison has no visual aides for that kinda stuff.

Armor doesn't seem that important for actual defense. I'm still literally wearing the base armor with no upgrades whatsoever and I haven't had trouble dying too much even when not even knowing how most of the mechanics even work. I know the bone armor is much better and has great newbie skills attached to the pieces but I don't like how it looks so I didn't make any of it.
As long as you're aggressive with the faster weapons, like the Insect Glaive and the Twin Daggers, you should be able to apply a status effect like poison pretty regularly. I've noticed that poison does around 10 damage every few seconds, which really adds up. An indicator to help tell how far along the poison build up is would be pretty useful. The only real indicator for poison is purple slime from the Wyvern's mouth when it takes effect.. Really, really subtle compared to the other ailments. But, from what I've read, poison isn't nearly as useful as the other ailments late game.

You can also downgrade most of your weapons, which returns every material used to upgrade it. The only real permanent material investments are in armor/accessories, forging a weapon, and a few high rank weapon upgrades. So you can experiment with other weapons and all it'll really cost is some Zenny. Defense does become more important as you tackle higher ranked quests because later Wyverns can 1HKO the ill-prepared. How far into the game are you?

I've always hated that games don't let me pick the look I want. It'd be great if more games adopted DCUO's way of handling character appearance. Wear the armor once and you unlock it as a cosmetic item. I think only the DLC samurai armor has that kind of function.
 

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Nov 15, 2012
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Captain Marvelous said:
As long as you're aggressive with the faster weapons, like the Insect Glaive and the Twin Daggers, you should be able to apply a status effect like poison pretty regularly. I've noticed that poison does around 10 damage every few seconds, which really adds up. An indicator to help tell how far along the poison build up is would be pretty useful. The only real indicator for poison is purple slime from the Wyvern's mouth when it takes effect.. Really, really subtle compared to the other ailments. But, from what I've read, poison isn't nearly as useful as the other ailments late game.

You can also downgrade most of your weapons, which returns every material used to upgrade it. The only real permanent material investments are in armor/accessories, forging a weapon, and a few high rank weapon upgrades. So you can experiment with other weapons and all it'll really cost is some Zenny. Defense does become more important as you tackle higher ranked quests because later Wyverns can 1HKO the ill-prepared. How far into the game are you?

I've always hated that games don't let me pick the look I want. It'd be great if more games adopted DCUO's way of handling character appearance. Wear the armor once and you unlock it as a cosmetic item. I think only the DLC samurai armor has that kind of function.
Funny thing about poison
Its the only actual weakness of the final boss

There is a definite unevenness in elemental and status spreads though. You might as well ignore Water, Ice, or Dragon defense, because those're literally only used by one enemy each. While fire is used by 10 (Thunder only by 2, but one of those is oft touted as the toughest ingame). You get a simialr case with status resistance, where there's a swathe of poison enemies (which contributes to the drop off late game in poison effectiveness), a good chunk of blast, then 1 paralyzer and 2 sleep inducers (both of which use a very telegraphed attack for it). One enemy uses tremors, two use wind pressure (but one of those doesn't count as such for armor skills anyhow).

Hopefully the free DLC monsters even out some of that, at least.

For weapon experimentation, if you go to the gathering hub (a loading screen you have zero reason to go through singleplayer, and very little even in online, admittedly). Talk to the arena lass and try out some arena fights. They give you preset loadouts, so these fights a)Don't use up any of your item stock or have consequence in resources. b)Let you play around with a variety of weapons, armor, skills, some different traps or consumable items. (If you happen to win, you get Arena coins, which you may have noted are required for the "Workshop" weapon tree, and unlock a new armor set to forge also).
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Sep 1, 2010
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Captain Marvelous said:
As long as you're aggressive with the faster weapons, like the Insect Glaive and the Twin Daggers, you should be able to apply a status effect like poison pretty regularly. I've noticed that poison does around 10 damage every few seconds, which really adds up. An indicator to help tell how far along the poison build up is would be pretty useful. The only real indicator for poison is purple slime from the Wyvern's mouth when it takes effect.. Really, really subtle compared to the other ailments. But, from what I've read, poison isn't nearly as useful as the other ailments late game.

You can also downgrade most of your weapons, which returns every material used to upgrade it. The only real permanent material investments are in armor/accessories, forging a weapon, and a few high rank weapon upgrades. So you can experiment with other weapons and all it'll really cost is some Zenny. Defense does become more important as you tackle higher ranked quests because later Wyverns can 1HKO the ill-prepared. How far into the game are you?

I've always hated that games don't let me pick the look I want. It'd be great if more games adopted DCUO's way of handling character appearance. Wear the armor once and you unlock it as a cosmetic item. I think only the DLC samurai armor has that kind of function.
I've used a poison element insect glaive with a poison kinsect for the last 2 fights and I honestly don't even know if I ever poisoned the creatures. I would think I did but the effect as you say is pretty subtle to notice. I just beat the Tobi-Kadachi (electric tree guy) last night and I'm already looking to make all the gear from that monster since its weapons have the thunder element, which I'm guessing will get me stuns (much more noticeable then poison), and I like the look of the armor along with it having some good skills attached to it. I guess I'll have to kill that guy a lot then because I can't even make a set of gear from the Kulu-Ya-Ku (egg carrying bird) yet because I don't have any of its hides (and fought him 3 times already). I should be able to just buy the materials I need/want or at least be able to do quests involving those monsters, but I gotta just free roam and find them I guess.

It's cool that you get back your materials when you downgrade but it's not nearly as simple to experiment as it should be. You can't change weapons when out on a quest for example, why not be able to change weapons on at a camp?
 
Feb 26, 2014
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Phoenixmgs said:
Captain Marvelous said:
As long as you're aggressive with the faster weapons, like the Insect Glaive and the Twin Daggers, you should be able to apply a status effect like poison pretty regularly. I've noticed that poison does around 10 damage every few seconds, which really adds up. An indicator to help tell how far along the poison build up is would be pretty useful. The only real indicator for poison is purple slime from the Wyvern's mouth when it takes effect.. Really, really subtle compared to the other ailments. But, from what I've read, poison isn't nearly as useful as the other ailments late game.

You can also downgrade most of your weapons, which returns every material used to upgrade it. The only real permanent material investments are in armor/accessories, forging a weapon, and a few high rank weapon upgrades. So you can experiment with other weapons and all it'll really cost is some Zenny. Defense does become more important as you tackle higher ranked quests because later Wyverns can 1HKO the ill-prepared. How far into the game are you?

I've always hated that games don't let me pick the look I want. It'd be great if more games adopted DCUO's way of handling character appearance. Wear the armor once and you unlock it as a cosmetic item. I think only the DLC samurai armor has that kind of function.
I've used a poison element insect glaive with a poison kinsect for the last 2 fights and I honestly don't even know if I ever poisoned the creatures. I would think I did but the effect as you say is pretty subtle to notice. I just beat the Tobi-Kadachi (electric tree guy) last night and I'm already looking to make all the gear from that monster since its weapons have the thunder element, which I'm guessing will get me stuns (much more noticeable then poison), and I like the look of the armor along with it having some good skills attached to it. I guess I'll have to kill that guy a lot then because I can't even make a set of gear from the Kulu-Ya-Ku (egg carrying bird) yet because I don't have any of its hides (and fought him 3 times already). I should be able to just buy the materials I need/want or at least be able to do quests involving those monsters, but I gotta just free roam and find them I guess.

It's cool that you get back your materials when you downgrade but it's not nearly as simple to experiment as it should be. You can't change weapons when out on a quest for example, why not be able to change weapons on at a camp?
If you're looking for specific parts, it's best to take on the monster in a Quest or Investigation, because those give bonus parts after completion. You can retake Optional Quests as many times as you want, but Investigations are the better way to grind monsters. Investigations are unlocked by tracking monsters (As in the actual evidence they leave behind like footprints or claw marks) or breaking off parts. The Investigations sometimes have stricter time or faint constraints, but offer additional rewards. While you can slay or capture a monster during an Expedition, it isn't as advisable because the rewards are reduced. And thunder actually doesn't cause paralysis. There are weapons with the paralysis/sleep/blast elements on them that can cause the respective ailments.

You can actually change weapons while out on quests or expeditions at any of the camps. Once you get to the area if you turn around there's a yellow tent that you can walk into. While in the tent you can restock on items and change weapons/armor and the tent will heal you without using any items.



Seth Carter said:
Funny thing about poison
Its the only actual weakness of the final boss

There is a definite unevenness in elemental and status spreads though. You might as well ignore Water, Ice, or Dragon defense, because those're literally only used by one enemy each. While fire is used by 10 (Thunder only by 2, but one of those is oft touted as the toughest ingame). You get a simialr case with status resistance, where there's a swathe of poison enemies (which contributes to the drop off late game in poison effectiveness), a good chunk of blast, then 1 paralyzer and 2 sleep inducers (both of which use a very telegraphed attack for it). One enemy uses tremors, two use wind pressure (but one of those doesn't count as such for armor skills anyhow).

Hopefully the free DLC monsters even out some of that, at least.

For weapon experimentation, if you go to the gathering hub (a loading screen you have zero reason to go through singleplayer, and very little even in online, admittedly). Talk to the arena lass and try out some arena fights. They give you preset loadouts, so these fights a)Don't use up any of your item stock or have consequence in resources. b)Let you play around with a variety of weapons, armor, skills, some different traps or consumable items. (If you happen to win, you get Arena coins, which you may have noted are required for the "Workshop" weapon tree, and unlock a new armor set to forge also).
Yeah, the monsters are definitely imbalanced when it comes to element representation. A little more variety would be greatly appreciated. I guess that means no water Elder Dragons? And thanks for the heads up about the coins. I had no idea where I was supposed to get them. For whatever reason it's difficult to get into a lobby, so I don't think I'll be getting those weapons any time soon.