So MovieBob's Got a New Show...

VanQ

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Caramel Frappe said:
.. Oh my god you weren't joking about how Extra Credits changed. Just looked into their video of Hatred like you said and, ugh ...

To preachy, judging a game by it's cover (literally) and not even exploring the other games that are popular in terms of just massacring people. Hotline Miami 2 was not once mentioned in the video despite being straight up sadistic, or allowing you to enjoy killing people brutally. Why wasn't Grand Theft Auto 5's single player mentioned when you can run over people, kill hookers, torture individuals and do some awful things?

Heck in Skyrim, there's a section in the Dark Brotherhood (when you complete the quest) where there's people tied up to the wall, arms locked & almost nude. You can torture them and their hp automatically regenerates to a certain extent. They didn't bother going deeper and instead tried cheesing it with human coding (also making all the drawn characters cry when getting hurt & trying to be serious just kind of killed the message like, we get it killing for pleasure is deemed wrong. Throw more jokes in there to lighten the audience like jeez).
The ironic thing is that Manhunt and Postal have both existed for over ten years and suddenly games like that are a problem NOW? I just don't get the mindset. I seriously can't believe they compared Hatred to The Iliad either. Comparing Hatred to high literature written by Homer is really something else.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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VanQ said:
Caramel Frappe said:
.. Oh my god you weren't joking about how Extra Credits changed. Just looked into their video of Hatred like you said and, ugh ...

To preachy, judging a game by it's cover (literally) and not even exploring the other games that are popular in terms of just massacring people. Hotline Miami 2 was not once mentioned in the video despite being straight up sadistic, or allowing you to enjoy killing people brutally. Why wasn't Grand Theft Auto 5's single player mentioned when you can run over people, kill hookers, torture individuals and do some awful things?

Heck in Skyrim, there's a section in the Dark Brotherhood (when you complete the quest) where there's people tied up to the wall, arms locked & almost nude. You can torture them and their hp automatically regenerates to a certain extent. They didn't bother going deeper and instead tried cheesing it with human coding (also making all the drawn characters cry when getting hurt & trying to be serious just kind of killed the message like, we get it killing for pleasure is deemed wrong. Throw more jokes in there to lighten the audience like jeez).
The ironic thing is that Manhunt and Postal have both existed for over ten years and suddenly games like that are a problem NOW? I just don't get the mindset. I seriously can't believe they compared Hatred to The Iliad either. Comparing Hatred to high literature written by Homer is really something else.
Manhunt and Postal were the sort of thing that were super controversial when they came out, everyone in the mainstream lost the minds over it and panic mongered. I mean they were calling for bans and such, even in the USA over those two, Doom was another big outcry maker. It strikes me that gamers and games as art types saying these things, when back in the day they'd defend any game to death, is more than a little bit hypocritical.
 

VanQ

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Manhunt and Postal were the sort of thing that were super controversial when they came out, everyone in the mainstream lost the minds over it and panic mongered. I mean they were calling for bans and such, even in the USA over those two, Doom was another big outcry maker. It strikes me that gamers and games as art types saying these things, when back in the day they'd defend any game to death, is more than a little bit hypocritical.
Oh for sure. But the people freaking out were clearly not gamers or members of the games industry. These guys are, and I bet my ass they were or would have defended them then. Which you got to at the end of your post, so I think you understood what I meant. I should have been clearer about that.
 

maninahat

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Lilani said:
Some days I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't deliberately look for things on the Internet to get angry or vindictive about.
Indeed. The news seems to be "hey, that guy we don't like is making a show we don't want to watch. Remember how we don't like him? Discuss." I've long watched his other shows, and am glad to see him back in some form or other.

I'm still unsure as to the exact reasons he left the escapist. Most people point to the changing management and escapist audience (specifically that the former didn't want any journalists who would alienate the latter), but has there been a formal reason given? Also, if it was because of the whole twitter "subhuman shitheads" thing, how do GGers square this up with their views on ethics? We're talking about a gaming website that would rather fire its staff if it meant that it could keep its readership and ad revenue up. That seems like the website that has compromised on providing outspoken and particularly opinionated views to protect its financial interests. I thought the drive was to promote ethical and honest journalism, not to create a more tepid and non-committal environment?
 

FirstNameLastName

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VanQ said:
I actually looked at their channel on Youtube recently and was horrified with what I saw. Revisionist history and an extremely pretentious video trying to convince his viewers not to buy Hatred. I don't care about Hatred personally, but seeing them go out of their way to try to stamp out a small indie studio disgusts me. I can't believe they're the same Extra Credits I used to enjoy and respect.

The really funny thing is, Destructive Creations have even responded with some of the most level headed and well written responses but they're basically being bashed by a large amount of EC followers. It's sad how we can rationalize killing hundreds of innocent people in other games like GTAV but apparently Hatred is different. The amount of mental gymnastics being done to demonize shooting fictional bullets at fictional pixels is crazy.

Anyways, on the topic of EC and Bob as well for that matter, it's really odd seeing what has become of the contributors that left this site in a negative way, I'm actually sort of glad that they're not around anymore because they've really gone a bit loopy. At least Jim appears to have actually regained some of his sanity that looked like it was waning thin in his last few weeks on this site, so not all is lost.
Caramel Frappe said:
.. Oh my god you weren't joking about how Extra Credits changed. Just looked into their video of Hatred like you said and, ugh ...

To preachy, judging a game by it's cover (literally) and not even exploring the other games that are popular in terms of just massacring people. Hotline Miami 2 was not once mentioned in the video despite being straight up sadistic, or allowing you to enjoy killing people brutally. Why wasn't Grand Theft Auto 5's single player mentioned when you can run over people, kill hookers, torture individuals and do some awful things?

Heck in Skyrim, there's a section in the Dark Brotherhood (when you complete the quest) where there's people tied up to the wall, arms locked & almost nude. You can torture them and their hp automatically regenerates to a certain extent. They didn't bother going deeper and instead tried cheesing it with human coding (also making all the drawn characters cry when getting hurt & trying to be serious just kind of killed the message like, we get it killing for pleasure is deemed wrong. Throw more jokes in there to lighten the audience like jeez).
I just watch the video and I've got say, I don't really see the issue.
I hate Extra Credits by default due to the fact that I can't listen to more than a few seconds of their gimmicky look-at-us-we-can-use-audio-editing-software-so-we've-picked-the-most-annoying-voice-imaginable without wanting to drown a sack full of puppies and kittens, but getting past the voice (seriously, fuck that voice) their views on it were actually pretty decent. It's stretching it a lot to claim they are "going out of their way to try to stamp out a small indie studio".
 

Scars Unseen

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maninahat said:
Lilani said:
Some days I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't deliberately look for things on the Internet to get angry or vindictive about.
Indeed. The news seems to be "hey, that guy we don't like is making a show we don't want to watch. Remember how we don't like him? Discuss." I've long watched his other shows, and am glad to see him back in some form or other.

I'm still unsure as to the exact reasons he left the escapist. Most people point to the changing management and escapist audience (specifically that the former didn't want any journalists who would alienate the latter), but has there been a formal reason given? Also, if it was because of the whole twitter "subhuman shitheads" thing, how do GGers square this up with their views on ethics? We're talking about a gaming website that would rather fire its staff if it meant that it could keep its readership and ad revenue up. That seems like the website that has compromised on providing outspoken and particularly opinionated views to protect its financial interests. I thought the drive was to promote ethical and honest journalism, not to create a more tepid and non-committal environment?
Not GG, but I'd like to point out that there is nothing unethical about a company wanting to project a certain image, or to remove staff that explicitly goes against that image. In any case, I thought that GG's deal was more of the conflict of interest type of ethics. If that's the case, firing someone who goes behind their back to send messages contrary to the company's projected image is exactly the thing they should do. If that's why he got let go. Don't think we ever got confirmation on that.
 

Fappy

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Not sure why everyone's so shocked ScrewAttack still exists... they're actually still quite large. They even have a Con. I've been watching Death Battles for years and the quality's been going up.

That said, I am glad AVGN went independent.
 

Karadalis

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His videos actually make me pitty him a bit.

I mean the dude has absolutely zero friends... heck... even angry joe can count on "other joe" to help him out in his skids but bob has to play EVERY role himselfe in his videos.

The dude has absolutely no one aparantly around to make the videos with. That and the atrocious and cringeworthy scripts.

Maybe thats because hes such a bitter fellow and the reason he trys siding with the anita crowd? BTW... even from those people no one wants to have anything to do with him.

Sad tale about a man who tried to fall in with the wrong crowd... but even the wrong crowd didnt want him :/

But hes still trying to get bonus points with the twitter warriors by still spouting the same hostile crap as ever.
 

Tsun Tzu

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It occurs to me that following MovieBob's exploits, post Escapist, shares a lot of parallels with Facebook stalking an abusive Ex because you're morbidly interested in who s/he's fucking now.

In this case, Bob's laid claim to a rather...unique barfly and he's started wearing colors more suited to his personality.

Good for him.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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You know what this thread keeps bringing something to mind for me. Every single time I read his handle I see it as "MovieBoob" the first time. What's the matter with me?
 

f1r2a3n4k5

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MovieBob always struck me as trying to be Roger Ebert, but without any actual education in the history of movies.

In short: Boring.

As for Extra Credits, the whole split-up looked bad for everyone and was a great example of "Contracts: Why You Should Have Them." I still enjoy their work on Youtube though. It's usually pretty knowledgeable. Plus, I like their game recommendations; they're usually pretty spot-on.
 

Iklwa

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Didnt EC also attack TB at some point? they came out with a bunch of claims with nothing to back it up and went silent.
 

L. Declis

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Dannyjw said:
Didnt EC also attack TB at some point? they came out with a bunch of claims with nothing to back it up and went silent.
Yeah. Totalbiscuit said he was going off Twitter to begin chemotherapy, and thinking he was offline, James started making a fuck ton of lies about TB (who heard about it during a round of chemo).

TB comes on, posts his evidence that James is lying and asks James to respond. James just blocks him and hides away rather than answer for being an arsehole.

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
You know what this thread keeps bringing something to mind for me. Every single time I read his handle I see it as "MovieBoob" the first time. What's the matter with me?
It's your subconcious trying to tell you something.

LostGryphon said:
It occurs to me that following MovieBob's exploits, post Escapist, shares a lot of parallels with Facebook stalking an abusive Ex because you're morbidly interested in who s/he's fucking now.

In this case, Bob's laid claim to a rather...unique barfly and he's started wearing colors more suited to his personality.

Good for him.
I followed him because I used to be genuinely sad that someone with so much talent about films and comics seemed to be having a bad time, and I was waiting for when he fixed himself up. Go watch "Be a better gamer" if you want to see how good he used to be on this kind of thing.

But after spending three years watching him spew utter hatred and bile onto everyone and everything he doesn't like, I have given up. I read his book, I watched his shows, I used to feel sorry for him. Now, like when I watch the Westboro Baptist Church picket a gay man's funeral, I just feel disgust towards him as he continues to vomit left, right and centre on Twitter.

Gizmo1990 said:
The last I read anything about Bob he threw a ton of insults at Totalbiscuit and all of his fanbase over twiiter and TB promptly destroyed him so I would say he is not exactly doing a very good job. That being said I don't wish anything bad on him tho I will admit it was a bit funny reading TB bitchslap him to the ground with just 3 or 4 tweets.
Yes. Among the glorious best of them was calling TB "Total Chode".

Talk about a cutting putdown.
 

UberGott

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A co-worker of mine and I actually discussed the EC video when the network went down, preventing us from doing anything useful for a few hours (yay, technology).

He agreed with EC's overall point, that sadism for sadism's sake is unhealthy and has no positive effects on a normal, healthy person. He called it masturbatory. I agreed with his assessment that it was literal pornography for sadists, but pointed out that gaming itself is typically masturbatory - going back to original Space Invaders, which is literally a game of "shoot the thing" with no more justification than you're told.

I also pointed out that he liked Hotline Miami, and asked if that made him a hypocrite - that gave him pause. But he pointed out that it was "different" insofar as you were fighting 'bad guys', and that the content was dramatically more stylized.

That's what always bothers me about criticism against violence in media: The violence itself is never the problem. EC and Bob and most other people who think this cheaply made game is "disgusting" and try to say-without-saying that Steam and Microsoft and others shouldn't even sell it will also argue that violence can be a good thing... but only if it's in the context that they like. And this double-think has never made sense to me.

The slaughter in Bioshock Infinite or Spec Ops: The Line or The Last Of Us seems to be fully justifiable to most critics, so why is Hatred any different? My guess is that it's not about sadism: It's because it reminds them that games, one of the most exciting potential mediums available to the world are now, are still - by and large - just toys. Toys that they can still be judged as shallow or juvenile for taking seriously. That when you strip away the cinematic sensibilities and "moral choice" concepts, the games are still about pulling a trigger over and over again. It reminds people who want to see games taken seriously as an artform that - much like TV, movies, comics, novels, or any other medium available to them - most aren't all that interesting, they simply fill out a bullet list that the consumers who like that genre are looking for.

I asked my co-worker around this point if he felt that pornography was harmful alongside "sadist" games like Hatred. He said that, yes, he did. It was around this point I realized he and I were never going to agree on this one, but hey, at least we were both willing to listen.

Veered a little off point here, though. I don't wish being unemployed and miserable on any but the actual worst of humanity, and while Bob may be a rude blockhead with little to no sense of self-awareness, I don't think being a fool is any reason to go hungry. Good for him, I guess, for finding a platform willing to put up with him calling a sizeable potential part of his own audience subhuman. I still suspect that Bob's piece on the you-know-what-centric episode of Law & Order SVU (which seemingly found a home on Badass Digest, if I remember correctly?) was the final straw, but all any of us can do is guess.

I said after his "Rohan" piece I'd never click another piece of media he created, and I've yet to break that streak. So good luck to him, I guess.

Edit: I think, in hindsight, the "Be A Better Gamer" video is when I started to see the cracks form in Bob's persona. I don't disagree with the sentiment he was endording, but hearing MovieBob - a guy who's probably a hundred pounds larger than I ever have been - lecture anyone about fitness, and not roll his eyes and even acknowledge that yes, he knows he needs to get more cardio in himself - just felt like a total disconnect in reality.

I have a few similar issues with another former Escapist staffer, but at least Jim "Thank God For Me" Sterling only put on airs of self-aggrandizing narcissism as a joke.
 

Lupine

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Sean Renaud said:
Scarim Coral said:
Despite claiming to be a competely different show, it is pretty much the same show (The Big Picture) but wearing new skins.

As for Bob dicussions-

I'm kind of confused with the whole Black Widow controversial, so it's bad for any women to talked about liking a guy and a possible family? I mean don't all women AND guy talked about those at some point in their lives (mainly the first since not all want to make a family)? I certainly do recalled once mention a girl I liked to my friends in High School and I do want to have a family of my own when that dicussion was brought up. In saying so I do kind of agreed that she was somewhat of a different character in AoU (since I thought she liked Clint).

The whole Nintendo thing I pretty much agreed on now that he brought it up (Eshop is a crappy service as I dread the day when I have to transfer my 3DS data to another 3DS by hand!). I suppose that video answer my question in why they want to partner up with Universal Studio when it come to making a Nintendo themeshop as oppose to making one themselves.
The Black Widow controversy if you can really call it that is that she doesn't seem to get much to do of any worth. You could just shy of expand Pepper Potts roles and happily ignore her. And that's not just Movie Bob's opinion, while Joss Whedon handled himself with all the grace and honor that is his he agrees that it's kinda bullshit that she doesn't much merchandise. Now the reason is fairly obvious in some ways. Thor, Hulk, Ironman and to a lesser extent Captain America all have super Strength so when you're making toys about how you're gonna break some shit you've got a God, a giant, an armored hero. . .Batman on steroids and. . .a girl who kicks high. You don't see a ton of Hawkeye merch or commercial appearances either and I have to assume it's more for common sense reasons than a disliking her because she's a woman.

I don't think many people (even Movie Bob despite him bringing it up) are that torn up about her talking about liking a guy or a possible family. It seems very much like that is her defining trait in this movie and. . .that's not fair to her. Now maybe he's 100% correct and she is meant to be background dressing there almost solely to say 'look we have a woman on the team' but in that case Ms. Marvel should be available for them to use, Wasp. . .is probably too connected to Antman to bring in before or without Antman, apparently given the situation with Spiderman, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver Sony, Fox and Disney have found a way to get along and share their toys like adults. She-Hulk might not be a great idea with Gamora running around. Hell make up an original character.
The picture showed talking about the Merch has a Avengers toy pack that had every character, even Hawkeye, but not Widow. So while I agree with you, I'm gonna say that is a bit more complex than her not having superpowers. Besides no one in G.I. Joe had superpowers either, but we saw tons of guys with guns action figures, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the toy companies are doing what they always do, and are typecasting. Boys=Action figures and Girls=Dolls and boys don't want to play with a "girl toy". Not saying that's reality, but that is totally the kind of mindset that toy companies are coming to the ball with and that is hardly anyone's fault except for the aforementioned toy companies and probably something that Joss Whedon has dealt with in the past seeing as how popular Buffy was at one point.
 

Techno Squidgy

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Lilani said:
Some days I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't deliberately look for things on the Internet to get angry or vindictive about.
I don't go looking for things to get angry about, but there are so many infuriating things in this world that it's impossible to not run into them on the internet. Though it tends to be news and politics that make me mad. Especially politics. Especially David Cameron, that evil, smug, ****ing ****.