So, my family is homophobic.
- Thread starter Dangit2019
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Sorry if I'm pulling you out of a crowd, and I certainly don't mean to put you on the spot, but I saw this and I'd be interested in your response as a Christian.mxfox408 said:
Is homosexuality a choice? Could you choose to find your own sex attractive to the point you develop lustful feelings and affectionate attachment to them?
A lot of the time I've asked this and the religious individual has "No, I could not", which just makes me (as an atheist with little understanding of gods) wonder why, if there is a god, they are homosexual in the first place?
Maybe you could bring something new to the table and enlighten me a little, but if you don't want to participate in the conversation due to fear of an arising shit-storm, I totally understand.
If there anything like my Oma (Pentecostal, homophobic and at times just completely looses her filter and goes full on offensive), good luck arguing/debating with them. Your gonna need it.
Captcha: Taco bell. Describe this brand with any word(s): Occasionally delicious?
Captcha: Taco bell. Describe this brand with any word(s): Occasionally delicious?
here's the solution to the slippery slope arguments. Paedophilia is not ok because a child can not consent to sex. Bestiality is not ok because an animal cannot consent to sex. Gay sex is fine because two adult men can both consent to sex. It's not a slippery slope for that reason.
In some cases I think so, like sexual abuse, rape, frustrations with the opposite sex,and as a Christian Lust is a very powerful sin. I'm not saying its a bigger sin than others but it has a strong hold, in other words lust doesn't equal love, its just a a powerful desire, if someone is gay based on lust alone then that's all it is. I cannot fully speculate on that tho, all I can do is pray for others and allow others to live their life. God after all gave us the choice to make. Even if you look on the scientists perspective they cannot prove ifborn gay or not. Again I cannot answer that question. I do however personally believe it to be sin, but as stated before I respect all life and do not cast judgement, what kind of Christian would I be if I did? A Hippocrate. As far as finding my own sex attractive I strongly do not.AngloDoom said:
Thank you for your reply, firstly. Secondly, I certainly respect your ideas toward 'I don't agree, but that's your choice' and I wish a lot more people took that path.mxfox408 said:
However, if you wouldn't mind answering my questions again: you said that in "some cases" sexual abuse can affect sexuality, what about the individuals who have not suffered from such problems? People who have had a 'normal' life and are considered attractive by the opposite sex, even gone out with them and sometimes even had sexual relations with them, but were repulsed by what they were doing because it felt wrong until they did it with someone of their own sex?
I ask because the above scenario is based off of someone I know who struggled to come to terms with their sexuality until late into their teens and I wondered, as a Christian, how you could explain such a thing? Again, I'm not holding you hostage as ambassador for Christian viewpoints, but I'm just interested if you're willing to answer.
I would consider being " repulsed by what they were doing because it felt wrong until they did it with someone of their own sex?" Is considered experimentation, curious, and even could be sexually insecure, atleast that's my interpretation of it. Feelings of guilt mean you feel its wrong and going against that feeling is not a good idea. My belief is when your spirit knows something is wrong it will give you a warning as a guilt or as a little voice telling you not to do something. I have had that happen on other occasions rearguarding many things and ignoring it usually led to problems, all because I rebelled against my instinct. Getting back on point if you have a guilty conscience chances are its not right and society saying its okay its okay, reaffirms this. This is where it becomes sinful we fall into lustful pleasures and desires, and the world's view of what feels right doesn't mean it is. I believe it to be unnatural, the bible has a scripture that discusses certain actions that can also help explain the hate Christians have been recieving and its also easy for Christian to feel that they have the right to cast judgement but they should not because its not our job to do so, things explained in these scriptures may not be to the full extent of what's being done but I'm sure this should help you understand my viewpoint :AngloDoom said:
Romans 1:21-32 NLT
Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn?t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other?s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God?s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
Again it is not our job to judge but pray for and love reguardless of sin, our job is to be an ambassador of Christ not a judge, remember hate the sin not the sinner that is why I'm learning not to engage in insults especially on sensitive topics as such. Best way to get your points across is through being respectful, and if the opposing views continue with insults then they are exposing their own foolishnes. I wish more people can talk without resorting to condescending insults that don't get them anywhere.
There is no "biology" behind homosexuality. They don't know why people are gay, nor have they found any credible biological links. Still, they have the right to live however they want, even if I do find the stereotypical "flaming homo" annoying.Carson Shindigg said:
As for climate change, I still call bullshit on this. Scientist are not infallible, 2000 years ago, the science of the day said the Earth was flat, and if you even DARED challenge this notion, you were a laughing stock. As someone who's actually taken a look at the raw data, and read some open letters from credible scientists (no, not just crackpot wackos), on top of "Climate Gate", global warming is a sham IMO. This isn't to say we shouldn't START looking after the planet, and that we should put the interests of big oil corporations ahead of the environment, but the biggest problem I have with the whole global warming scare is the fact that food prices have risen substantially as a result of it, starving millions across 3rd world nations.
Just try to avoid the topic. It?s just not worth the bother trying to change people who are so set in their ways, especially your family, and some people are discriminative of a certain group of people just?because. Hatred and fear are pretty strong leftovers from our primitive times, and can easily cloud our judgement. No matter what you say, some people will still cry, ?NAH NAH YOU?RE WRONG BUTTSECKS IS GROSS DEY GUNNA RAEP MAH KIDS!? Of course, ignoring the fact that not all gay people even like or perform anal sex in the first place, and many heterosexual couples have anal sex too.
My mother?s a Muslim and, while she?s not a fanatic or anything, she does harbour some decidedly old-fashioned views. Yep, she?s one of those people who believe that a child?s parents should be a man and a woman (despite being a single mother herself), that gay people choose to be gay (because, obviously, people suddenly wake up in the morning and decide to become a member of an oppressed minority), and that crossdressing is silly (says the woman who dislikes wearing skirts or dresses). She?s an intelligent woman who?s taught me a lot over the years, but whenever some of her bigotry slips through those tracks, I either just go ?Mm? or try to change the subject.
And my brother?s somewhat sexist too, even if he denies it. He claims that women degrade themselves more than men. Um, how? And even if that was true, isn?t that the fault of society for basically telling women that they have to be like this and they have to be like that? And he apparently thinks it?s acceptable to call women ?hoes? if they have a lot of sex with multiple men. But he rarely ever elaborates on whenever men do it, because, of course, women degrade themselves more than men.
If you want, you could just say, ?Stephen Fry is gay, but still awesome. Your argument is invalid.? And if they don?t know who Stephen Fry is, just say, ?Well, I?m sorry you feel that way? and walk out like a boss.
When you?re 18, feel free to let it all out. Seriously. If you want, just whale on them with your superior logic (I don?t care if that sounds arrogant or pretentious), and if they want to disown you, just disown them. It?s not a great loss; you?d have other friends, wouldn?t you?
My mother?s a Muslim and, while she?s not a fanatic or anything, she does harbour some decidedly old-fashioned views. Yep, she?s one of those people who believe that a child?s parents should be a man and a woman (despite being a single mother herself), that gay people choose to be gay (because, obviously, people suddenly wake up in the morning and decide to become a member of an oppressed minority), and that crossdressing is silly (says the woman who dislikes wearing skirts or dresses). She?s an intelligent woman who?s taught me a lot over the years, but whenever some of her bigotry slips through those tracks, I either just go ?Mm? or try to change the subject.
And my brother?s somewhat sexist too, even if he denies it. He claims that women degrade themselves more than men. Um, how? And even if that was true, isn?t that the fault of society for basically telling women that they have to be like this and they have to be like that? And he apparently thinks it?s acceptable to call women ?hoes? if they have a lot of sex with multiple men. But he rarely ever elaborates on whenever men do it, because, of course, women degrade themselves more than men.
If you want, you could just say, ?Stephen Fry is gay, but still awesome. Your argument is invalid.? And if they don?t know who Stephen Fry is, just say, ?Well, I?m sorry you feel that way? and walk out like a boss.
When you?re 18, feel free to let it all out. Seriously. If you want, just whale on them with your superior logic (I don?t care if that sounds arrogant or pretentious), and if they want to disown you, just disown them. It?s not a great loss; you?d have other friends, wouldn?t you?
Wait, what?Renegade Shepard said:
I don't think you get science.NotALiberal said:
First of all, declaring that there's "no biology" to explain homosexuality is a meaningless, content-free statement. We don't know right now what causes it. That doesn't make it not true or a perfectly apparent aspect of our world that we need to be sensitive to. It also doesn't mean that whatever explanation you'd like to attach to it is true simply because there is nothing to discredit it besides conjecture. The only intellectually honest approach is one of a open mind of inquiry. If you don't know, say so.
You also don't seem to have a solid grasp of what climate change is all about. you mention that you've read the "raw data" which prompts me to ask 'and what raw data would that be?', because there is a great deal of data being poured over by highly intelligent experts in the field who I imagine are absent from this thread. There is disagreement of the cause, true, but I'm highly skeptical that it's some sort of highly coordinated global ruse, nor have I seen really any evidence to support such an assertion. What I do hear a lot of are a great deal of the best scientific minds saying that there is a root human cause to climate change. Some disagree. The thing about science is, the simple fact that some disagree does not mean that the positive claim is bunk.
It's also worth asking, why oppose it even if its not true? Are you worried that we'll clean up the world for nothing? Yeah that sucks. I hate it when I think I have company coming over so I clean up my apartment, but then they cancel on me and I'm forced to sit in my clean apartment. So annoying.
Don't bother.Dangit2019 said:
Horrible fact about the world is that some people just plain don't want to change.
Also the slippery slope argument is effectively negated by the word "Consent."
-Children can not consent to sex.
-Animals can not consent to sex.
-Person wants to marry a broom, that's okay too, as one can not rape a broom as a broom has no will.
Hence, the response to "where do we draw the line." is consent. Mind you I was a believer in that slippery slope argument in my younger days until it was explained to me like that.
Allow me to feed your fear:Boudica said:
OT: I'm religious, Mormon specifically, and while I think of homosexual behavior as a sin, everyone commits sin and is in need of help from God anyway, so why should I care what sin they indulge in? Let them be happy doing the things they choose and God will sort it all out in the end.
People will always think they are right.
The best thing you can ever do is calmly question it.
"Why do you equate child molesters with homosexuals? Child molesters can be male or female, and they can also hurt male or female children, or both...do you realize that?"
I would say tell them that they are trivializing a very serious matter with far reaching consequences and that it is disrespectful to victims, not to mention homosexuals, everywhere.
If they actually mention anal sex...then I say just be cold turkey do your best "are you serious face?" and say "Straight people do it too. All holes fuckable!" or perhaps some variation there of >.>
"Why do you care what homosexuals do? Truly?"
"Are you so insecure in your own sexuality, or so bored with your life you have to go into other peoples lives? If two people have sex it is no ones business. if two people decide to have a relationship it is no ones business."
"If they want to get married how does it affect you? Does your marriage or your faith lose all meaning if two people marry or even have a child together? "
"Two people are willingly in a relationship. How is your life affected?"
To me forcing someone to actually admit their REAL feelings, and subsequently telling them that their feelings may be wrongheaded when it comes to trying to control the lives of other human beings is great.
The best thing you can ever do is calmly question it.
"Why do you equate child molesters with homosexuals? Child molesters can be male or female, and they can also hurt male or female children, or both...do you realize that?"
I would say tell them that they are trivializing a very serious matter with far reaching consequences and that it is disrespectful to victims, not to mention homosexuals, everywhere.
If they actually mention anal sex...then I say just be cold turkey do your best "are you serious face?" and say "Straight people do it too. All holes fuckable!" or perhaps some variation there of >.>
"Why do you care what homosexuals do? Truly?"
"Are you so insecure in your own sexuality, or so bored with your life you have to go into other peoples lives? If two people have sex it is no ones business. if two people decide to have a relationship it is no ones business."
"If they want to get married how does it affect you? Does your marriage or your faith lose all meaning if two people marry or even have a child together? "
"Two people are willingly in a relationship. How is your life affected?"
To me forcing someone to actually admit their REAL feelings, and subsequently telling them that their feelings may be wrongheaded when it comes to trying to control the lives of other human beings is great.