So that whole "female main characters don't sell" bullshit

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

This is the first time I hear about this, I've never seen or heard anyone say that the gender of the main character matters much (except for bcell, but, you know.).

I love portal. other than i dont like those games which feature female main character because even if those games has male characters i would still hate them. i just dont find any good game with female protagonist.

plus it depend on game. for FPS games. Male character is must!!. for action and adventure. it depend and JRPG suit best with female characters.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

I found the three main characters of V unappealing.

As an aside, wasn't that the point? These are horrible people doing horrible things. It's like watching Goodfellas or somesuch, it might have a decent enough story and compelling narrative, but ultimately it's about a bunch of murderous career criminals. That's kind of why I liked it, first GTA I've given more than a couple of hours since being a stoned teenager trying to mow down a line of Hare-Krishna.

OT: Eh. I rarely go for anything that doesn't have character creation (GTAV was mainly bought for online). I don't care if they are male or female, if it's not my character it can generally fuck off.

 

[Hawki]

plus it depend on game. for FPS games. Male character is must!!. for action and adventure. it depend and JRPG suit best with female characters.

Ah yes, because only men can use firearms. And only males can embark on action and adventure...

Also, most JRPG protagonists are male as well.

 

[Redryhno]

I'm probably going to regret this buuuuuut....

I don't think I've ever heard anyone in real life make that argument. It always seems like it's your "Racist Uncle" argument (you know, the "Black people have smaller brains than white people! It's not racist, it's science!!!!") that no one actually says as a real argument.

At best, it feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy by game makers (like how horror games were a dead genre) that they just kind of decided on at some point.

I'm on team "if the game is good, I will buy it" myself. I never had any problems playing a black man in Telltale's Walking Dead, a woman in Tomb Raider, or a badass space marine in Doom, even though I am none of those things in real life...

The problem is that the guy's ignoring what comes after as a qualifier of "they don't sell well IF their sole reason for existing is because they're female". Sorta how it always goes with these threads.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

plus it depend on game. for FPS games. Male character is must!!. for action and adventure. it depend and JRPG suit best with female characters.

Ah yes, because only men can use firearms. And only males can embark on action and adventure...

Also, most JRPG protagonists are male as well.

we are not talking about real life only men use fireamrs (even if most of men use). apart from NOLF (which is comic spy game and flop in sales) theres hardly any successful FPS featuring female protagonist.

 

[Hawki]

we are not talking about real life only men use fireamrs (even if most of men use). apart from NOLF (which is comic spy game and flop in sales) theres hardly any successful FPS featuring female protagonist.

I'm aware of the lack of FPS games with a female protagonist, that wasn't your original point. Which, I quote, was:

for FPS games. Male character is must!!. for action and adventure.

Stating that female protagonists are rare in FPS games is a statement of fact. Stating that male characters are required for FPS (or any other genre) is a statement of opinion. One that I disagree with.

 

[Lilani]

plus it depend on game. for FPS games. Male character is must!!. for action and adventure. it depend and JRPG suit best with female characters.

Ah yes, because only men can use firearms. And only males can embark on action and adventure...

Also, most JRPG protagonists are male as well.

we are not talking about real life only men use fireamrs (even if most of men use). apart from NOLF (which is comic spy game and flop in sales) theres hardly any successful FPS featuring female protagonist.

But is that because FPS's automatically become less good if it has a female protagonist, or is it because few FPS's with female protagonists have been attempted by AAA studios?

 

[kenu12345]

This is the first time I hear about this, I've never seen or heard anyone say that the gender of the main character matters much (except for bcell, but, you know.).

I love portal. other than i dont like those games which feature female main character because even if those games has male characters i would still hate them. i just dont find any good game with female protagonist.

plus it depend on game. for FPS games. Male character is must!!. for action and adventure. it depend and JRPG suit best with female characters.

Have to agree with Hawki, saying a certain gender is a must for certain genre makes no sense to me. Any gender can fit into any genre with nary a difference

 

[Charli]

You're confusing rational level headed people of individual opinion with 'Marketing departments'.

...One is the one 'claiming' that statement.

 

[09philj]

It's bollocks. Always has been bollocks, always will be bollocks, and anyone who says it can try saying it again with a copy of the original Tomb Raider shoved deep inside their rectal cavity.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

The best selling male led games usually outsell their female led counterparts by a pretty wide margin, unfortunately.

These are companies chasing after the highest possible profit margin and the big dogs...well, they're, effectively, at the mercy of their shareholders. So, maximizing the aforementioned profit takes precedence.

Which sucks.

But there are always exceptions.

Which is awesome.

But then you have Prey where you can choose your character's gender which you wouldn't know if you just watch the trailer

Wait, really?

I had no idea...may have to give it a look.

I'm probably going to regret this buuuuuut....

I don't think I've ever heard anyone in real life make that argument. It always seems like it's your "Racist Uncle" argument (you know, the "Black people have smaller brains than white people! It's not racist, it's science!!!!") that no one actually says as a real argument.

At best, it feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy by game makers (like how horror games were a dead genre) that they just kind of decided on at some point.

I'm on team "if the game is good, I will buy it" myself. I never had any problems playing a black man in Telltale's Walking Dead, a woman in Tomb Raider, or a badass space marine in Doom, even though I am none of those things in real life...

Ya pretty much encapsulated my thoughts on the matter, but I will say that I've seen people (on Steam's comments, weirdly, and other places) stating that having a certain gender, male or female, makes the game less appealing to them.

Personally, I like femprotags and usually play female characters, if given the opportunity to do so. Always have.

And I was one of those awful, soggyknee'd gators. Go figure.

Point being, there are people like that who exist, but they're either a minority or a really, really silent majority.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Thats confirmation bias. You set out to prove that have female protagonist don't cause games to fail then post two games with female protagonists that sold well.

What you should do is chronicle a list of all ( or most) games that have female only protagonists, then chronicle games made in the same year, and same genre with male protagonists, then compare the sales of the two. Both day one ( or month) sales and all time sales.

Even then, that doesn't take into consideration other variables such as marketing, game quality, other high profile games that came out at the same time , etc...

But nobody got time for real research, just blanket statements am i right?

 

[Erttheking]

The problem is, and Jim Sterling made this mistake to, those games didn't sell well. He compared Zero Dawn to Bioshock infinite, which outsold it nearly 3-1.

Statistically speaking those games did not outsell male-lead games. Now that's a shame, because both those games are fun, but facts is facts.
I mean hell RE6 outsold RE7 nearly 6-1! That's how it goes!

The new PS4 exclusive IP sold less than the third, multi platform entry in a beloved franchise that's been out much longer and has had time to let steam sales pad its numbers? Well of course, but that doesn't really mean much. Because the game did sell well. No seriously, it did. It's a brand new IP, a new IP starting off with sales in the millions is great. Jim also did a video on how Dark Souls sold a million copies less than Tomb Raider, but Dark Souls was considered a success while Tomb Raider was considered a disappointment because expectations weren't realistic. Also that's something to take into account. Zero Dawn is selling more early copies than Dark Souls. And Breath of the Wild if we're contuing to ignore context on the limited availability of the hardware you can play it on. Also Jim was just saying the idea a cover would turn people off if it had a lady on it was BS. And he was right. No one said anything about outselling, just selling well.

 

[Erttheking]

Thats confirmation bias. You set out to prove that have female protagonist don't cause games to fail then post two games with female protagonists that sold well.

What you should do is chronicle a list of all ( or most) games that have female only protagonists, then chronicle games made in the same year, and same genre with male protagonists, then compare the sales of the two. Both day one ( or month) sales and all time sales.

Even then, that doesn't take into consideration other variables such as marketing, game quality, other high profile games that came out at the same time , etc...

But nobody got time for real research, just blanket statements am i right?

No, the idea that a woman causes a game to do poorly is pretty much just 110% bullshit. Any game with a female lead doing well, even one, disproves it. Metroid Tomb Raider, every last game where you pick your gender, Bayonetta, Life is Strange, the Borderlands games, Final Fantasy 13, all sold well.

You'd be better off offering counter evidence if you have a problem with my claim.

 

[wulf3n]

Any game with a female lead doing well, even one, disproves it.

Not really. A game can do well despite it's flaws, but that doesn't mean the flaws didn't have an effect on the sales.

 

[Erttheking]

Any game with a female lead doing well, even one, disproves it.

Not really. A game can do well despite it's flaws, but that doesn't mean the flaws didn't have an effect on the sales.

They said games with female MCs don't sell well. Period, no modifiers, no exception. They were wrong

 

[wulf3n]

Any game with a female lead doing well, even one, disproves it.

Not really. A game can do well despite it's flaws, but that doesn't mean the flaws didn't have an effect on the sales.

They said games with female MCs don't sell well. Period, no modifiers, no exception. They were wrong

I'm going to mimic tippy2k2 for a bit in that I've never heard anyone say that directly, it's always been 2nd or 3rd hand quotes, usually from developers about publishers.

But for the sake of argument I'll assume that is what's said.

Then it all depends on how they/we define "well". Sales alone aren't necessarily enough information to go on. It all depends on the games budget and what the expected return on investment for the shareholders/investors was.

Unfortunately the games industry isn't very transparent when it comes to these figures.

 

[Jeremy Comans]

You are making a mistake here:
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/85674/horizon-zero-dawn/ (2.55m sales)
Nier Automata I found about 1 million.

While Call Of Duty:
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/85359/call-of-duty-black-ops-3/ (14 million)

And as we all know in the AAA industry, only COD amount are considered "sold well" because the industry is borderline insane.

Although I don't think it makes your point invalid - these two games clearly didn't do blockbuster numbers, though I'd still say they did well, vgchartz is not a good site to take figures from. Firstly, they count only retail figures, and not digital. Secondly, the numbers they post are highly speculative estimates.

 

[Erttheking]

Any game with a female lead doing well, even one, disproves it.

Not really. A game can do well despite it's flaws, but that doesn't mean the flaws didn't have an effect on the sales.

They said games with female MCs don't sell well. Period, no modifiers, no exception. They were wrong

I'm going to mimic tippy2k2 for a bit in that I've never heard anyone say that directly, it's always been 2nd or 3rd hand quotes, usually from developers about publishers.

But for the sake of argument I'll assume that is what's said.

Then it all depends on how they/we define "well". Sales alone aren't necessarily enough information to go on. It all depends on the games budget and what the expected return on investment for the shareholders/investors was.

Unfortunately the games industry isn't very transparent when it comes to these figures.

The stupidity precedent is there.

Depends on the game. Five million is astounding for a new game, but just ok for COD. Both these games Nier in particular broke the expectations around them. I'd say they sold well.

 

[wulf3n]

Depends on the game. Five million is astounding for a new game, but just ok for COD.

Very true.

Both these games Nier in particular broke the expectations around them. I'd say they sold well.

Maybe.

According to this article [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-17-tomb-raider-finally-achieved-profitability-by-the-end-of-last-year] The Tombraider reboot cost roughly $100 million USD and required 5-6 million sales just to break even.

According to this article [http://gearnuke.com/horizon-zero-dawn-production-budget-revealed/] Horizon Zero Dawn had a budget of roughly $50 million USD so we can assume it would take roughly 2.5 - 3 million sales to break even. So at the moment I don't know if you can say it's selling well, but simply selling adequately.

Can't really say for Nier as I can't find anything that mentions its budget.