So, wanna talk about Pornographic VideoGames?

Azriel Nightshade

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All the talk of Dragons Crown and sexualization in games has me thinking about the merits of pornography as it relates to video games.

Hear me out.

Think about games where there is a romantic component that involves sex or games with sexual themes, ex: the Elder Scroll series, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, the Fable trilogy, Saints Row, the Witcher, Fallout.
All of these games have subplots of some kind that, sometimes, involve your character having sex at some point. But none of them are explicit to the degree that pornography on the internet tends to be.

But it's clear that there is an interest for that sort of thing.

Think about the legion of Rule 34 art there is for any game, comic, book, entertainment series you can name. Think about all the flash games and videos depicting said art in animated form. Think about how it's a joke that when games like Skyrim come out, there are at least 10 different mods who's sole purpose is to let you see naked people in the games. The desire is there, but the need is being meet mostly by other fans and not the makers of said entertainment.

Now, it's not that hard to imagine why this is, I doubt Bethesda or id software wants to be associated with porn, the sigma here in the west could be a bit bad for business. Still, I think there is a untapped market here.

Let's look back at Dragon's Crown.
That game is littered head to toe with sex. I admit I've only see screenshots and videos, but the atmosphere of the game is ripe with sexualization. My question is, why stop there? Why not just go the full mile and add more explicit sex to the game?

Now some arguments agains might be:

1. Adding explicit sex to the game would detract from the core gameplay.
-I would say no, givin that the other games I've listed, (the Elder Scroll series, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, the Fable trilogy, Saints Row, the Witcher, Fallout), have sexual themes, but no sex. I'm going to go out on a limb and say games of those kind can have their established gameplay elements in addition to gameplay that is explicit sexual content.

2. No game retailer would sell there games.
-True. But we live in a world where digital distribution is a thing. These kinds of sexual games do not have to go through the Walmarts and Game Stops of the world.

3. Pornographic games getting bigger budgets and high profiles would somehow undermine them as an art form.
-This idea is based on guilt by association. The association with porn as an indictment of games. This association is flawed. The flaw being, we as a society do not indict movies or television show or web show simply because websites like Brazzers exist. Sarah Mirabelli career does not invalidate Kerry Washington's.

Ok, that's decent enough for a starter, what do you think?

(real talk though I'm down for Vanillaware making a pornographic game that still worked on its own as contemporary video game. I'd drop 30-40 bucks on it.)
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Isn't there like an entire Japanese genre of games that are basically porn games?

I don't know how, er... game-ish those games are though. They might be something closer to a choose-your-own-"adventure" book with pictures.

Oh, there was that one western game that refused release on Steam. Can't remember what it was called.

Anyway, it's not something I would be in a hurry to spend money on. If I got one for free then, yeah, not gonna lie, I'd at least take a look, for the take of morbid curiosity if nothing else.
 

Yuuki

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It's not about pornographic games, it's about who they are aimed at. When it comes to things like this, the market for males is vastly larger than the market for females. Some people enjoy criticizing that aspect because they are unable to grasp what happens when the overwhelming majority of the people interested in MAKING games & such productions (combined with their audience) are male.
 

Anthony Corrigan

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Yuuki said:
It's not about pornographic games, it's about who they are aimed at. When it comes to things like this, the market for males is vastly larger than the market for females. Some people enjoy criticizing that aspect because they are unable to grasp what happens when the overwhelming majority of the people interested in MAKING games & such productions (combined with their audience) are male.
really? who bought Playboy mansion? Certainly wasn't me who bought it in our household, was my FEMALE partner. Who buys "romance" novels which are porn by any other name?
 

evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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I don't think you're actually describing what would be a "porn game" but rather it sounds like you're talking about games that just happen to have sex in them. There's a difference there. A movie isn't porn when it has a sex scene--even an explicit one--it's porn when the explicit sex is pretty much all there is. To use an extreme example: Boogie Nights, despite all the nudity, sexuality, and outright sex... isn't a porno.

Actual porno games... usually aren't very interesting, except when you're *ahem* self-gratifying.

Also 3D models boinking usually ends up not looking very good, often even in pre-rendered scenes.
 

Nihilm

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Zhukov said:
Isn't there like an entire Japanese genre of games that are basically porn games?

I don't know how, er... game-ish those games are though. They might be something closer to a choose-your-own-"adventure" book with pictures.

Oh, there was that one western game that refused release on Steam. Can't remember what it was called.

Anyway, it's not something I would be in a hurry to spend money on. If I got one for free then, yeah, not gonna lie, I'd at least take a look, for the take of morbid curiosity if nothing else.
Visual novels are more books than games.

Also calling the entire genre "basically porn games" is just mean, there are some "basically porn games" in it and there are sex scenes in most of them, but as far as I have talked with people in the VN community that play them a lot, they don't do it for the porn, they do it for the stories. Making it less of a "porn game" and more "a game with explicit sex scenes that is kind of a book".
 

go-10

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Yuuki:
It's not about pornographic games, it's about who they are aimed at. When it comes to things like this, the market for males is vastly larger than the market for females. Some people enjoy criticizing that aspect because they are unable to grasp what happens when the overwhelming majority of the people interested in MAKING games & such productions (combined with their audience) are male.
my girlfriend adores the "h-games" genre of games... I think that's what they're called. She fell in love with the genre when she was studying Japanese back in college and has quite a few collections, looking behind me I see every Sono Hanabira game released to date. Sengoku Rance, Rance Quest, and Yamiyo ni Odore. There's a bunch more but they don't have a translated sticker on them so I got no idea what they say

anyways, my point is that despite being an male directed genre a lot of girls enjoy the game because of the romance or comedy. Oddly enough the 6 girls I know that like these games all prefer the one's that contain 100% yuri routes because of the romance heavy themes these routes usually have
 

Smeatza

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Well first of all, as others have mentioned. Just because a game contains explicit sex, doesn't mean it's a porno game.
For it to be a porno game it would have to be specifically about the sex.

Porn games are quite common, especially eastern ones. Hell even flash based porn mini-games are commonplace.

But considering that films have yet to openly accept explicit sex as a legitimate part of the artistry, it's going to be a long long time before we see explicit sex in non-porn video games.
 

Legion

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Oct 2, 2008
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Because as much as people criticise the immaturity of games, gamers are quite often significantly more immature.

If for example you watched a film that had romance and sex in it, nobody would bat an eyelid or say "They are just doing it to get people off, why not just watch a porno?". Tell somebody you played Katawa Shoujo and it has sex scenes in it and many will assume that must be the reason for why you chose to play it and look down upon you for it.

Until people are willing to grow up and accept that sexual content can have just as much of a place in games as it does in other mediums, I wouldn't expect it to be included "properly".

That said, with games that do attempt it, even in a PG13 setting such as Bioware games, it does come across as incredibly awkward, mainly due to how awful the character models look. I think it'd need to be heavily stylised or with a game that has extremely realistic graphics to look anything other than clumsy.
 

NeutralDrow

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It'd never openly catch on in the West. Hell, technically it's not even "caught on" in Japan, it's more a "tolerated and ignored" niche.

Still, it's a source for them. And also why I laugh whenever people here talk about sex in games and go to Mass Effect of all things.

Zhukov said:
Isn't there like an entire Japanese genre of games that are basically porn games?
Eroge, but that just implies sex is added as an element to a game, rather than be a genre in-and-of itself. Eroge visual novels (which isn't all visual novels, but a good chunk of them) are generally the go-to example, but there are also eroge that are other genres like RPGs (particularly JRPGs, SRPGs, and dating sims), arcade shooters, card fighters, rhythm games, and the like.
 

Lieju

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Sure, I'd love to see sex and sexual themes in video-games more often. But I will also criticise them if they are just silly, or out of place or exploitative or sexist.

But sex is a part of life, and it would be nice if there were games that handled it maturely.

And of course there's the place for just straight-up porn and juvenile depictions of sexuality. Unfortunately the latter is kinda common.
 

Bruce

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I figure it probably wouldn't be a bad thing if they became more common. Porn sold as porn is at least a whole lot less hypocritical than the current relationship games have with sex, and a proper porn game industry developing might be a necessary step towards games maturing.

Adolescence is a necessary step towards adulthood and all of that.

It might also help get it out of some developers systems. I mean a lot of character designs scream that the artist would rather be doing porn, so why not have them actually doing that?
 

SSJBlastoise

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As much as I would like to see how it would be done, it would never be accepted by people. Does any remember the hot coffee mod? As soon as people found out about that the game was taken off shelves until it was re-done without the scripts that allowed the game to run it. Even Mass Effect was attacked for having a sex scene.

It won't happen in the near future, especially with the sudden increase in people complaining about how women are portrayed.
 

CloudAtlas

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Lieju said:
Sure, I'd love to see sex and sexual themes in video-games more often. But I will also criticise them if they are just silly, or out of place or exploitative or sexist.

But sex is a part of life, and it would be nice if there were games that handled it maturely.

And of course there's the place for just straight-up porn and juvenile depictions of sexuality. Unfortunately the latter is kinda common.
I fully agree. If love or sex are important themes in your story, go for it. Just be mature about it.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Zhukov said:
Isn't there like an entire Japanese genre of games that are basically porn games?
I don't know how, er... game-ish those games are though. They might be something closer to a choose-your-own-"adventure" book with pictures.
**sigh**

Visual Novels, yes. And they aren't "porn games" - they're a whole genre. They're digital books, basically. And, like most fiction, some contain sex, some don't.

There are many, MANY visual novels that don't have any sex in them at all.

There are a couple that are pretty much all sex - and do little but rise above porn.

And then there are those in the middle. They tell a story about their characters. And sometimes those characters have sex.

In some cases, the sex comes off as tacked on, as it often does in Western action or horror films. In other (better written) instances, it flows naturally from the story.

So no, they aren't "porn games" - unless the Game of Thrones is a "porn novel" because it contains sex scenes.
 

CloudAtlas

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SSJBlastoise said:
It won't happen in the near future, especially with the sudden increase in people complaining about how women are portrayed.
This is a misconception. Yes, some group of people will always complain about sex in games, no matter how coy (as it is in Mass Effect), but those people are not the ones who 'complain about the portrayal of women'. As long as it is mature and not exploitative or anything, those people won't mind. Those people who do mind, those are conservatives, anxious parents and the like, not people who are invested in the medium.
 

Richardplex

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Tell me, when you watch a film, and the characters are about to have sex, do you sigh in disappointment when it goes to a new scene as they're kissing on the bed, rather than having a 30 minute full on hardcore pornographic scene for the audience to masturbate together in beautiful harmony in the cinema? As someone who reads eroge, or hentai games, I can say that, honestly, you don't want porn in your games, it adds nothing and more likely will detract from the experience.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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SSJBlastoise said:
As much as I would like to see how it would be done, it would never be accepted by people. Does any remember the hot coffee mod? As soon as people found out about that the game was taken off shelves until it was re-done without the scripts that allowed the game to run it. Even Mass Effect was attacked for having a sex scene.

It won't happen in the near future, especially with the sudden increase in people complaining about how women are portrayed.
Mass Effect also sold insanely well for that reason. I will never know why they cut back on the sex - they should have ramped it up for more free press.

Anyway, as noted by CloudAtlas (great movie BTW - couldn't get into the book though), the "sex in games is evil" people aren't the same as the "portrayal of women" people. I'm a portrayal of women protester, and I'd love to see more sex in games.

Why?

Because I want to see more well written stories about sex.

Someone above mentioned that women have their romance novel porn. And while that's not universally true, it certainly is fairly common. I know I do. Why? Because, for women, porn works better with a story - a well written story. That's why a lot of women like the more sexual visual novels or the hentai with better plots - because the writing makes us care about the characters, and once we care about them, we enjoy seeing them have sex. Regular porn tends to not work so well because of the lack of connection. I don't know these people, so why should I care? (Obviously mileage may vary - I've known guys who insisted on stories in their porn as well, and I've known women who just wanted to look at naked dudes fucking, but I'm talking fairly wide demographics here).

I would very much enjoy a game where you could develop a romance and then have your character have sex. In fact, I'd like it if sex wasn't always the end point. That's actually something Dragon Age 2 did right - you have sex half-way through the romance, with room to further develop the relationship afterwards.

I'll give you another case in point.

In Persona 3 and Persona 4, it is heavily implied that you have sex with your romantically involved Social Link at rank 10 (always in P3, only if you initiated romance in P4 and P3P). P4 changed it up a couple of times (there was one girl you seemed to have sex with earlier than rank 10) but in general that's how the formula worked.

When I played Persona 3, after I reached rank 10 with Yukari and the MC slept with her, I would occasionally spend further time with her (even though it didn't benefit me mechanically) because I liked her. And, when I did so, she would often go to the MC's room - apparently for sex. Why? Because I liked the story of their romance and I liked the idea that they were still a couple, even if the MC was grinding up other Social Links for mechanical reasons.

In a game like Persona 3+, I don't think sex-scenes or even player-controlled sex would be out of place, and I think it could add something to the story. Too many games (Persona, Mass Effect) frame sex as the "end point" of a relationship. The goal to achieve. The reward. But sex is part of a relationship, not the end point.

Richardplex said:
Tell me, when you watch a film, and the characters are about to have sex, do you sigh in disappointment when it goes to a new scene as they're kissing on the bed, rather than having a 30 minute full on hardcore pornographic scene for the audience to masturbate together in beautiful harmony in the cinema? As someone who reads eroge, or hentai games, I can say that, honestly, you don't want porn in your games, it adds nothing and more likely will detract from the experience.
There is a middle point, you know. The Witcher 2 did a fairly good job of hitting that middle point (albeit in cut-scene rather than gameplay).