So, wanna talk about Pornographic VideoGames?

[EternallyBored]

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All of my this, seriously why do people keep assuming that complaining about gratuitous sexualization means that people want no sex period. I like the sex scenes in Mass Effect and Dragon Age, they fit well in the universe and provide context to Shepard/Grey Warden's interpersonal relationships. Does that mean there's no room for cheap or dirty sex without the romance, no, as long as it's not detracting from the rest of the game, then why not, sex can be meaningless enjoyment and still drive a good plot.

I will agree with more relationships that don't just have sex as the end goal though, Mass Effect works, but after 3 games it sometimes kind of feels like sex is just the reward for all your dialogue choices rather than a develpment point in an actual relationship, it doesn't help that each game in the series hits the reset button on any relationship developed in the previous game, so we go right back to sex as the only endpoint. It doesn't have to all end in marriage, kids, and a happily ever after, but it would certainly help to see a relationship develop beyond just the meeting, and then a sex scene after the characters share 4 conversations together.

Gaming will need to shed it's stereotype as a primarily children's entertainment medium that comic books used to suffer from, before it can use sex in a mature manner that doesn't get the media and overprotective parents after them. It's getting better though, we used to not have the technology to do sex scenes beyond animation or still images, since graphics weren't good enough back then to make in-engine characters look like anything other than tetris blocks humping if they did have sex.

 

[KOMega]

Let's look back at Dragon's Crown.
That game is littered head to toe with sex. I admit I've only see screenshots and videos, but the atmosphere of the game is ripe with sexualization.

That was not what I saw, but I suppose my priorities are a little different.
I thought the chimera was cool :/

Anyways,
First this quote I agree with:

Because as much as people criticise the immaturity of games, gamers are quite often significantly more immature.

If for example you watched a film that had romance and sex in it, nobody would bat an eyelid or say "They are just doing it to get people off, why not just watch a porno?". Tell somebody you played Katawa Shoujo and it has sex scenes in it and many will assume that must be the reason for why you chose to play it and look down upon you for it.

Until people are willing to grow up and accept that sexual content can have just as much of a place in games as it does in other mediums, I wouldn't expect it to be included "properly".

That said, with games that do attempt it, even in a PG13 setting such as Bioware games, it does come across as incredibly awkward, mainly due to how awful the character models look. I think it'd need to be heavily stylised or with a game that has extremely realistic graphics to look anything other than clumsy.

Second, I don't think north america is ready for games like that yet. Or at least ready for them on a public level. And I'm talking about full blown porn games here. Let alone just a single scene of 'implied' sex in a non-porn game.
Were still having a lot of lengthy discussions about morals and sexualization every time there is a female character with an oversized chest. I really don't think north america is ready for it on any type of public level. I can't speak much for other countries.

[edit: also by public level I don't mean big billboards of sex. games with explicit sex are always spread on a very "underground" level in north america imo.]

To add explicit sex scenes (by explicit I don't mean "Oh, that girl has big boobs" I mean full on baby-making[sub][sub]baby not included.[/sub][/sub]) in a game depends on how you are using them.
Is this the point of the game?
Does it feel like it was shoehorned here? Is it the only instance?
How much context is around the scene?

 

[tardcore]

It's not about pornographic games, it's about who they are aimed at. When it comes to things like this, the market for males is vastly larger than the market for females. Some people enjoy criticizing that aspect because they are unable to grasp what happens when the overwhelming majority of the people interested in MAKING games & such productions (combined with their audience) are male.

And yet the market for males for romance novels which, and let's not split hairs here, are predominantly works of erotic fiction, is much smaller than the market for females. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Frokane]

its funny how everyone in this thread are making comments about porn games as if theyve never played an H-game on newgrounds or something.

'I have spoken to people of the porn gaming community'

How exactly did you fall into having a conversation with that crowd?

 

[Gatx]

Isn't there like an entire Japanese genre of games that are basically porn games?

I don't know how, er... game-ish those games are though. They might be something closer to a choose-your-own-"adventure" book with pictures.

Oh, there was that one western game that refused release on Steam. Can't remember what it was called.

Anyway, it's not something I would be in a hurry to spend money on. If I got one for free then, yeah, not gonna lie, I'd at least take a look, for the take of morbid curiosity if nothing else.

I think there are ones out there that are actually game games too, more something where it makes sense for a cutscene (or a picture rather) serves as a reward like an RPG or something.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I will agree with more relationships that don't just have sex as the end goal though, Mass Effect works, but after 3 games it sometimes kind of feels like sex is just the reward for all your dialogue choices rather than a develpment point in an actual relationship, it doesn't help that each game in the series hits the reset button on any relationship developed in the previous game, so we go right back to sex as the only endpoint. It doesn't have to all end in marriage, kids, and a happily ever after, but it would certainly help to see a relationship develop beyond just the meeting, and then a sex scene after the characters share 4 conversations together.

Well said!

That is something I meant to bring up, but my post was already a little long, so I dropped it - the relationships in Mass Effect 1 were... okay if you went with Liara. She had a TON of relationship dialog. If you tried romancing Ashley, however (which I did in a 2nd playthrough with a MaleShep) it kinda comes out of nowhere. You talk about her dad... and there's no sense that a romantic relationship has formed until you find her fighting with Liara (because she has so much more to talk about).

I'm asiding again. The point is that the Liara relationship seemed to develop fairly naturally during the dialog with her. And then... ME2 comes along and the "reset" button has been pressed, which makes little sense. They wanted to expand the options, fine. And you'd been dead. And Ashley/Kaidan weren't exactly well developed in the previous game anyway....

But it makes no sense in ME3. If you were romancing Garrus, you should be able to simply keep going. You should be able to invite him up to your room as soon as he gets onboard and not have to wait to "rebuild" the relationship. The same for Liara if you re-romanced her in Shadow Broker. Or Tali when you finally get her onboard. Yeah, sure, some of the relationships would end (see Jacob) but yeesh. The formula only works so many times.

**sigh**

 

[Deacon Cole]

The only porn game I have seen, aside from lame flash games, was Roger Ramrod which was a Doom clone where a prick's girlfriend is kidnapped while they're in media res so he sets off to rescue her armed only with the ordinance he has below the waist. He actually has three weapons. I'll leave that up to your imagination.

I will say that points 2 and 3 in the OP contradict each other. If retailers won't sell porn games, how could they justify a larger budget. Even porn films tend to be low budget which is why they usually turn a profit. And if retailers don't sell them how could they have a higher profile? It just doesn't make sense.

The main problem with porn games, besides the whole 'why bother' aspect, is the same problem porn animation has. The medium is seen as being aimed primarily at children so a pornographic game appears to be porn aimed at children. This is of course a bit of cultural snobbery to leave an entire medium only for children or any other demographic. But that will change once a couple generations die.

 

[Lieju]

Let's look back at Dragon's Crown.
That game is littered head to toe with sex. I admit I've only see screenshots and videos, but the atmosphere of the game is ripe with sexualization.

Sexualization, maybe. Sex? No.

Dragon's Crown seems to be the same kind of weird non-sexual sexualization American Super-hero comics are full of.

Look at Sorceress' infamous boobs, for example. They have no nipples. It's the kind of PG-sexualization that has female superheores dress in bikinis and skin-tight catsuits that mysteriously cover the strategic parts.

 

[Zhukov]

There are a couple that are pretty much all sex - and do little but rise above porn.

So some of them are porn games then.

Saying those ones aren't because others aren't doesn't make sense. It's like saying a porno magazine isn't a porno magazine because National Geographic exists and that's a magazine with no porn at all!

Maybe "subgenre" would be a better word.

 

[Bestival]

I don't really see the point of a game that I'll only play for like, 3 minutes at a time. Sounds as tedious as trying to watch a porn with a story all the way through. Those are 90 minutes at best, and it takes me weeks to complete one of those.

I did play that Sims for adults a while back. I think it was called Roomies, or Roommates or something along those lines. It wasn't very good. No house building, just pick 2 out of a possible 6 characters for a straight couple, move into a fully furnished apartment and work on the relationship till they don't freak out about being naked in the same room anymore.
Which is all I've ever wanted out of a relationship myself, so I guess in that regard it's a pretty good Sim.

They still did that thing like in The Sims, where when both of them are at work, you gotta sit and stare at the screen for 10 minutes with nothing to do waiting for them to come back home. I've never understood why people thought that was a good idea for a game...

 

[Richardplex]

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That'd still fall under the film level of doing it. Showing that yes, they are having sex, without being voyeuristic about it. Unlike hentai games, where they must show every single act in extreme detail in between all the "I'll bweeaaak, I'll bweeeaaaaaak!!"s. If visual novels with shoved in sex scenes did the Witcher 2 way of doing it I'd be far more content.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but please, have mercy, don't have interactive sex scenes. Choosing where to cum is cringe-worthy enough.

 

[MammothBlade]

I've played dozens of *adult* visual novels, and let's say, they manage to integrate erotica and plot perfectly. I don't play them for the sex, but when/if it does happen, I'm so engrossed with the characters that it's a meaningful experience far more fulfilling than a five minute porn flick.

Then there are hardcore eroge which skip to the erotica early and every other scene - or maybe all of them - involves sex.

There are others, still - e.g. Discipline: Record of a Crusade - which are inbetween, keeping the player on a leash with unpredictability and tension, the possibility - but not certainty - of sexual excitement.

So you have full games with erotic content, and those which are purely about sexual gratification. And the former don't tend to compromise on story at all.

All of these are perfectly acceptable for adults to enjoy in their personal free time, but I'd at least like to do away with the double standards. If shops visibly stocks games which are all about extreme gore, then games with mild, consensual erotica - and 10x the intellectual maturity - should surely be displayed alongside them.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

There are a couple that are pretty much all sex - and do little but rise above porn.

So some of them are porn games then.

Saying those ones aren't because others aren't doesn't make sense.

I didn't. I was saying that all Visual Novels aren't porn - just some (and a fairly small portion at that). Your post (seemed) to imply that all Visual Novels were porn, and I was disputing that.

Just as, to use your example, all magazines are not porn just because some are.

If I came off as a bit sharp, it is because I find the fact that many gamers dismiss all Visual Novels as "those porn games" bothers me. It sounded like you were doing that. If you did not mean to imply that, then I stand corrected.

 

[CloudAtlas]

I will agree with more relationships that don't just have sex as the end goal though, Mass Effect works, but after 3 games it sometimes kind of feels like sex is just the reward for all your dialogue choices rather than a develpment point in an actual relationship, it doesn't help that each game in the series hits the reset button on any relationship developed in the previous game, so we go right back to sex as the only endpoint. It doesn't have to all end in marriage, kids, and a happily ever after, but it would certainly help to see a relationship develop beyond just the meeting, and then a sex scene after the characters share 4 conversations together.

Well said!

That is something I meant to bring up, but my post was already a little long, so I dropped it - the relationships in Mass Effect 1 were... okay if you went with Liara. She had a TON of relationship dialog. If you tried romancing Ashley, however (which I did in a 2nd playthrough with a MaleShep) it kinda comes out of nowhere. You talk about her dad... and there's no sense that a romantic relationship has formed until you find her fighting with Liara (because she has so much more to talk about).

I'm asiding again. The point is that the Liara relationship seemed to develop fairly naturally during the dialog with her. And then... ME2 comes along and the "reset" button has been pressed, which makes little sense. They wanted to expand the options, fine. And you'd been dead. And Ashley/Kaidan weren't exactly well developed in the previous game anyway....

But it makes no sense in ME3. If you were romancing Garrus, you should be able to simply keep going. You should be able to invite him up to your room as soon as he gets onboard and not have to wait to "rebuild" the relationship. The same for Liara if you re-romanced her in Shadow Broker. Or Tali when you finally get her onboard. Yeah, sure, some of the relationships would end (see Jacob) but yeesh. The formula only works so many times.

**sigh**

Mass Effect is a very good example of a game where I would have wished for more sex. And more explicitness. Seriously, who is taking a shower with his/her underwear on? I guess it's still a step upwards from Dragon Age's awkward dry humping though. More than one (or two?) scene of sexual nature per game would have been nice too; in Mass Effect 3 anyways, where each relationship should have already matured (to be fair, many are). Presumably, two lovers would want to spend more than one night together if each day could very well be their last. A little more of that feeling could have been conveyed. But, to be fair, some scenes were rather well done, if short, in my book, especially Liara's, given the intended age rating. You didn't really see anything, but at least she was nude.

On the non-sexual side of the relationships I do not want to comment here, so I'll just say that the hauntingly emotional "I wrote your name in the stars" scene makes me forgive many flaws.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

There are some porn visual novels and some full-on porn games, just google "Illusion" developer.

As for sexualization in videogames... as I said before, I'm just tired of it. I have nothing against big tits or revealing clothes or even against sex in videogames. But, please, can we get something else?! Can we get more characters like females in Persona series or like Ellie from The Last of Us and Elizabeth from Infinite? Besides, by now I feel that aiming for teen-boys audience by being sexualized is kinda pointless. We have porn! Lots and lots and lots of porn!

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

On the non-sexual side of the relationships I do not want to comment here, so I'll just say that the hauntingly emotional "I wrote your name in the stars" scene makes me forgive many flaws.

Oh my yes. I loved that bit.

Although, I was kinda hoping Liara was going to take that opportunity to tell Shep she was pregnant. It would have been a nice tie in to the Blue Babies discussion from Shadow Broker.

 

[CloudAtlas]

On the non-sexual side of the relationships I do not want to comment here, so I'll just say that the hauntingly emotional "I wrote your name in the stars" scene makes me forgive many flaws.

Oh my yes. I loved that bit.

Not very manly tears were shed. The beautiful piano alone... I just watched this scene again on Youtube after writing that post, and even after all this time it's still very touching. Perhaps the most memorable moment of the whole trilogy for me.

 

[viranimus]

Sorry... But what the OP cites really is not what I know I think of when I see the term "pornographic videogames" As others have pointed to how Japan adores its tentacle porn as well as its video games so it seemed like its own Reeses cup waiting to happen. However that still is not what I think of personally. I remember my first one. It was SOOOOO awful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riana_Rouge

The shame still haunts me to this day. Not because I was playing a porn game, but more to the effect that I was playing a horrendously bad in every possible way type of adventure game with Mortal Kombat stylized pixelated imposition of "sexuality" and knowing I actually endured the embarrassment of bringing this steaming pile up to the register and exchanged actual currency with the clearly silently judging store clerk, all to be rewarded with an adventure game that breaks itself every 10 seconds and still could not run without copius lag a half decade after its release.

Go find this gem. I think everyone should have to suffer the scars I have endured.

 

[5ilver]

Has anybody here played the Bastard of Kosigan (a NWN module)? I think that game handled sex pretty well. You can play through the story and experience a *ton* of sex, even non-consensual at times and it all fits perfectly with the story and setting.

And if that's not your thing- you just turn on the "modesty veil" or choose to not take part in such endeavors and the game instantly turns into pg13.

I think the author nailed it as far as "best of both worlds".