So what are the problems with male characters in games?

[EternallyBored]

Ok, after seeing the 500th topic asking, "But what about the men?", I'm getting sick of telling people to just create the topic themselves if they want to talk about the issues with male characters in gaming, so I'm just going to bite the bullet myself.

Pretty much everyone in these types of threads will agree with one thing: there are issues with stereotypes and cliches in male characters in gaming. People will quibble over the severity and differences between the issues of male and female characters, but even the staunchest feminists on this board will admit that male characters have issues too.

To start off with a little preamble, keep the comparisons to female issues and problems out of this thread, this isn't for pointing out what you perceive as double standards, or trying to make one sides problems look worse or better. This isn't the oppression Olympics, this topic has nothing to do with who has it worse, this topic is for exactly what it says on the tin. This topic is for talking about male characters only, and both male and female gamers are certainly welcome to give their two cents about what they think is overused or detrimental to male characters in gaming.

What issues do you think male characters have in video games, these can be cliches or tropes that are just overused, and put men in a bad or negative light due to their perpetuation. It can be issues or values you think developers push on male characters too often, that makes you groan, or even offends you on some level. It can even be niggling issues that you just think that developers need to stop being so lazy about and make better characters for gamers to play as.

For me, let's start off with one issue, I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure the rest of you can come up with more or elaborate on this one.

1. Emotion: This seems to be a problem with a lot of male characters in games, developers seem to be afraid of making the protagonist ever look weak or vulnerable to any great extent, and seem to want to avoid characters showing emotions at all. Even the cliche single manly tear is often absent from the repertoire of most male game protagonists. Nathan Drake struggles and gets scuffed up, but he never seems to be effected by anything beyond mild irritation or disappoint, even doing back breaking stunts will only leave him with a temporary limp and a witty sarcastic quip at the end of the day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying male characters should start crying at the drop of a hat, but a little tearing up, or some emotional vulnerability would be nice every now and then. It helps make the character feel more human, or helps build sympathy, even when we aren't playing as hardened military badasses, it still often feels like I'm playing a character with with the emotional depth of a teacup.

So yes, let's finally do it, let's talk about the men, instead of just wasting hundreds of posts to ask why we aren't talking about them.

 

[JoJo]

You're right that male and female characters aren't treated equally, the most pressing problem with male characters right now is the lack of sexualisation. I mean, how I am meant to get aroused when I'm playing as Marcus Fenix, or Mario, or Master Chief? Last time I checked, a fridge, a dough ball and a robot aren't hot.

We need less of this:

Spoiler

And more of this:

Spoiler

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

snip

JoJo what have you done!?
[sub]Besides Master Chief is clearly the fridge.[/sub]

OP: I see a lot of male characters as anti heroes, which is jumping a little off your concern OP. It might just be whats trendy right now, but I'm getting darn sick of it. I'd like to see a little more variety in personality rather than this crowd of mostly self serving arseholes.

For the record, I know Mario and Link exist.

 

[TehCookie]

I think male characters need to stop visiting the same barber and dyeing their hair the same color. The characters look so samey I can't even tell them apart. Also they should stop going to the grit buffet so they don't sound like they have throat cancer.

They also need some character in their character. I'm not against tropes as long as they are used well and it isn't the same ones over and over again. Deconstructions can be fun as well. Let the character struggle to achieve something rather than breeze through it effortlessly. Have their actions have some sort of effect on how they act or think.

Also the devs need to choose to either make the character a blank slate or flesh them out. The wishy-washy ones are just terrible.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Well creating something different from the stream of manly manly men whose default voice is set to deafeningly loud and grizzled and never emote towards anything apart from a second of slight acknowledgement in their eyes before reloading their gun and shooting more generic idiots would help.

You know I can't really call it manly, calling it "manly" feels like i'm committing a crime against Gurren Lagann. It's just annoying macho bullshit. It's like people decided that all male characters must be "cool" at all times and any moment of real weakness must be destroyed instantly before people start calling them bad names.

Being cool all the time is fucking boring. Oh look Master Chief just killed everything with his bare hands... Again. How about that.

No hold on, do women actually find any of the above attractive? I'm genuinely curious.

Basically don't be afraid to give them fucking flaws and maybe even consider dropping their Courage Meter to under 200% for a second to show them in a moment of weakness?



Also stop shopping at the same armour shop. You all look identical. Full face helmets are like the worst thing to try to build a personality over ever. Isn't that right Chief?

The amount of times they do a shot of his reaction face on an important scene is amusing at least. It just pans over a helmet and expects emotional impact.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

1. Emotion: This seems to be a problem with a lot of male characters in games, developers seem to be afraid of making the protagonist ever look weak or vulnerable to any great extent, and seem to want to avoid characters showing emotions at all. Even the cliche single manly tear is often absent from the repertoire of most male game protagonists. Nathan Drake struggles and gets scuffed up, but he never seems to be effected by anything beyond mild irritation or disappoint, even doing back breaking stunts will only leave him with a temporary limp and a witty sarcastic quip at the end of the day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying male characters should start crying at the drop of a hat, but a little tearing up, or some emotional vulnerability would be nice every now and then. It helps make the character feel more human, or helps build sympathy, even when we aren't playing as hardened military badasses, it still often feels like I'm playing a character with with the emotional depth of a teacup.

So yes, let's finally do it, let's talk about the men, instead of just wasting hundreds of posts to ask why we aren't talking about them.

That's the line you tread with games - you can have a story that pushes you to play the game, but the thing that you spend the most time with is the actual game. So the gameplay needs to tell the story somehow, rather than the text or cut scenes telling the story. If Drake was injured all the time during the game, it'd be a real drag for me to play (personally speaking).

ICO still hasn't been surpassed - even by Shadow of the Colossus IMO.

Regarding emotions and what-not, I'm open to it as long as it's nothing like Metal Gear Soap Opera. That was so dissapointing that I didn't bother moving onto the modern console sequels. I got to the end of Solid on the PS1 and I was ready to destroy my disk.

If you spend too much time investing in the characters, you have to be aware of their appeal. I'm not playing a character that I don't like. It's that simple. He could be a well mannered, balanced male. If I don't like him, I won't play him in the game. That's why I think the issue of emotion has been glossed over in gaming.
So in a way, I'm fine with the stiff military type dude, or the muscle head, or the renaissance looking wizard dude who gets all the ladies, or the noble knight - the archetypes help create drama. I think by now, the "anti-hero" has become an archetype. Dudes usually do the anti hero really well, and they usually look all scruffy and "manly". Whatever. If the game rocks, I'm down as long as the main character is appealing to me.

 

[EternallyBored]

You're right that male and female characters aren't treated equally, the most pressing problem with male characters right now is the lack of sexualisation. I mean, how I am meant to get aroused when I'm playing as Marcus Fenix, or Mario, or Master Chief? Last time I checked, a fridge, a dough ball and a robot aren't hot.

We need less of this:

Spoiler

And more of this:

Spoiler

You know, I was treating this as a joke post at first, but now that I think about it, I think you've actually got a legitimate gripe/complaint here.

A common problem I find with male characters in games is that they are treated as sexless ken dolls until it's time for the "sex" scene, which almost always cuts away before you can see anything more than abs, basically it wouldn't even count as pg-13 without the implied sex once the screen fades to black, otherwise the male characters might as well be eunuchs for all the sexuality they actually display. I think it's partially because developers are afraid of being accused of having overtones of homosexuality. Male sexuality when not paired with a female partner for the sexy times, seems to be treated as either a joke, or is ignored entirely.

I've always been a proponent for sexuality not being bad if used well or at least with purpose to the game itself, the idea of there being too little male sexuality is actually an interesting angle to tackle.

 

[The_Scrivener]

My biggest issue, personally, with male gaming characters is that a lot of them assume I'm a dumbass. I started Binary Domain yesterday and quit 15 minutes in because a wisecracking black character asked me if I liked women and vacations. When I said, "No" to make sure he understood his mission partner wasn't a 13 year old acne-infested hard-on farm he reassured me I might have a chance to score before the game was over.

Seriously? THIS is what SEGA thinks of me?

I like violent tragic rugged morally ambiguous characters like John Marston, James Sunderland, Booker DeWitt and Joel. I like charismatic if not cunning casual joes like Yu Narukami, Ness, Sly Cooper, Fox and Zidane.

If you're going to make us play as another hypermasculine, testosterone sweating meathead, at least do it like Mass Effect where a female equal is an option. Some of my least favorite characters are Kratos, Mondo from Killer is Dead.

If I was going to find a balance between the two, it'd be someone like Leon Kennedy, who is heroic, but isn't some exaggerated douche. It's too bad Capcom writes him so he sounds like a moron.

 

[EternallyBored]

1. Emotion: This seems to be a problem with a lot of male characters in games, developers seem to be afraid of making the protagonist ever look weak or vulnerable to any great extent, and seem to want to avoid characters showing emotions at all. Even the cliche single manly tear is often absent from the repertoire of most male game protagonists. Nathan Drake struggles and gets scuffed up, but he never seems to be effected by anything beyond mild irritation or disappoint, even doing back breaking stunts will only leave him with a temporary limp and a witty sarcastic quip at the end of the day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying male characters should start crying at the drop of a hat, but a little tearing up, or some emotional vulnerability would be nice every now and then. It helps make the character feel more human, or helps build sympathy, even when we aren't playing as hardened military badasses, it still often feels like I'm playing a character with with the emotional depth of a teacup.

So yes, let's finally do it, let's talk about the men, instead of just wasting hundreds of posts to ask why we aren't talking about them.

That's the line you tread with games - you can have a story that pushes you to play the game, but the thing that you spend the most time with is the actual game. So the gameplay needs to tell the story somehow, rather than the text or cut scenes telling the story. If Drake was injured all the time during the game, it'd be a real drag for me to play (personally speaking).

ICO still hasn't been surpassed - even by Shadow of the Colossus IMO.

Regarding emotions and what-not, I'm open to it as long as it's nothing like Metal Gear Soap Opera. That was so dissapointing that I didn't bother moving onto the modern console sequels. I got to the end of Solid on the PS1 and I was ready to destroy my disk.

If you spend too much time investing in the characters, you have to be aware of their appeal. I'm not playing a character that I don't like. It's that simple. He could be a well mannered, balanced male. If I don't like him, I won't play him in the game. That's why I think the issue of emotion has been glossed over in gaming.
So in a way, I'm fine with the stiff military type dude, or the muscle head, or the renaissance looking wizard dude who gets all the ladies, or the noble knight - the archetypes help create drama. I think by now, the "anti-hero" has become an archetype. Dudes usually do the anti hero really well, and they usually look all scruffy and "manly". Whatever. If the game rocks, I'm down as long as the main character is appealing to me.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the gruff military badass needs to go away, I just think his archetype is used too often, and in cases where it would be better suited to be toned down a bit. To go back to Nathan Drake, yes, him limping the whole game would be stupid and a terrible design choice, but even when he says he is in a situation over his head and admits he's lost, he never quite shows it. His emotional depth never really goes beyond cocky or sarcastic, even when the story dictates he should be at least showing some kind of reaction. In my opinion, he could use a little of what the new Tomb Raider game had, not to the same extent, but a little of that vulnerability would probably make Nathan look a little less like a smug psychopath. Mostly, I just wish male characters would be a little less stoic and robotic all the time, they don't need to be soap operas, but acknowledging that the situation isn't always completely under control would help some characters. Especially the ones that aren't special forces types, if the game is about someone who is supposed to be normal, having them react emotionally like a trained Navy SEAL comes off as a little jarring.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I love Marcus Fenix, but I wouldn't mind seeing more Marios. On the art side, a lot of games have pretty boring/predictably-designed characters, which I kinda attribute to character artists primarily deriving their inspiration from other character art. More variety in body types, ages, and personalities always makes things more fun for me.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I don't like playing as a male character because I've never found one that I can relate to. They are either stoic, simmering rage, "I have issues but I don't like to talk about them," characters like Marcus Fenix, thugs a bit too full of themselves, or smooth operators that make my skin crawl. And despite this, all the girls in the games always trip over themselves to get his attention. None of those characters come close to reflecting and I've always been a bit mifted about that. The characters that I like tend to be side characters, like Baird, Varric, or Alastair. Goofy characters who crack jokes and don't take things too seriously unless the situation calls for it. Sadly, that apparently does not appeal to the mass market, so those characters are always side one at best. And when they do get their moment to shine (like Baird), they gut the character and try to change them into the main stereotypical hero. Even Leon from Resident Evil suffered this fate. In 4, he had smug, cheesy one-liners (looks like there will be one less monster in the world after this) and I could relate to that. Saying stupid stuff just before a big fight, or during a big fight, but then in RE 6 he's less like that.

So, to sum up, I guess what I don't like is that none of the main male characters in games ever seen likable to me because they are so "Grr. Hardcore!" or anti-hero thugs that I just don't want to play as them.

 

[Muspelheim]

Male video games characters could do with more emotion. While woving to murder every single one of the generic, dark enemies in face obscuring headgear that killed your female is an emotion, it's not the only one.

Hell, I'd like more male characters based on cunning or wisdom. Not particularly burly men, that gets past the obstacles with intelligence and wit. These characters exists, certainly, but a few more to contrast the usual "The Man That Was a Living Gun" routine would be nice.

Hell, even a blonde hairdo would be a breath of fresh air by now, if I'm allowed to be petty for a moment.

Gear and armour made to be sexually inticing rather than practical protection is fine, as well. On the condition that it's evenly spread. If chain mail bikinis are viable combat gear for women, leopard skin loincloths better be viable combat gear for men. And above all; make sure there is a character inside that war underwear. Not just a bit of battlefield decoration or a body ideal to project on the game through.

 

[krazykidd]

I don't even see what the problem is. Can we get an all female dev team make a game so i know what i'm trying to compare modern men in gaming to?

I think , if the gender and apparence of your character hinders you from playing/enjoyin a game, you are doing it wrong. That's like saying , i can't stand to play monopoly , because the monopoly mascot is a white guy with a black hat and a monocle.

 

[Frankster]

I find it impossible to discuss this topic without also mentioning the other gender (and no, not to make it the oppression olympics, its that mentality which renders discussion on this topic impossible to begin with imo) so struggle to come up with something else besides the usual lack of shown emotions beyond rage and anger+tendency for samey male protagonists.

Oh wait I got one!

Real guys don't get scared or show fear. Ok this is part of emotions but is something I feel needs to be elaborated.
The new tomb raider might have had a disconnect between its cutscenes and its gameplay, but showing the protagonist vulnerable and struggling and even being scared isn't a bad thing. Such scenes would be much rarer for a male character in videogames, because guys ain't allowed to show "weakness" or they aint real guys worthy of winning the day.
Then again I hear the latest farcry played around with these ideas, and it was praised for that right? Well more like that please.

And without involving the other gender, let's just say guys are the expendable gender it's ok to kill en masse without second thoughts and in horrible ways.

My biggest issue, personally, with male gaming characters is that a lot of them assume I'm a dumbass. I started Binary Domain yesterday and quit 15 minutes in because a wisecracking black character asked me if I liked women and vacations. When I said, "No" to make sure he understood his mission partner wasn't a 13 year old acne-infested hard-on farm he reassured me I might have a chance to score before the game was over.

Seriously? THIS is what SEGA thinks of me?

If you want a reason to dislike Binary Domain, that is a poor example. You have your own preconceptions, fair enough, but in the story the guy you're playing is a literal "dudebro" and that scene is a dudebro exchanging quips with his fellow bro+ setting up a plot threads for later, not that you'd know it if you quit 15 mins in xD
Its nothing to do with how sega views you but serves to establish the personality of those 2 characters and their friendship, even if its a personality/behavioral norm you despise.
And other characters who are not your dudebro actually respond to the protagonist really negatively when he acts like a "dumbass". Heck you can troll the british guy you recruit later by having him being with you and your dudebro 24/7 and tormenting him with constant dudebroeness.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

I think , if the gender and apparence of your character hinders you from playing/enjoyin a game, you are doing it wrong. That's like saying , i can't stand to play monopoly , because the monopoly mascot is a white guy with a black hat and a monocle.

So much this. Why do people even care about the gender or appearance of the protagonist. It's such a non-issue. What should really matter is whether the game is good or not.

 

[Muspelheim]

I think , if the gender and apparence of your character hinders you from playing/enjoyin a game, you are doing it wrong. That's like saying , i can't stand to play monopoly , because the monopoly mascot is a white guy with a black hat and a monocle.

So much this. Why do people even care about the gender or appearance of the protagonist. It's such a non-issue. What should really matter is whether the game is good or not.

And character design and actions aren't a part of what makes it good, then?

 

[ShinyCharizard]

I think , if the gender and apparence of your character hinders you from playing/enjoyin a game, you are doing it wrong. That's like saying , i can't stand to play monopoly , because the monopoly mascot is a white guy with a black hat and a monocle.

So much this. Why do people even care about the gender or appearance of the protagonist. It's such a non-issue. What should really matter is whether the game is good or not.

And character design and actions aren't a part of what makes it good, then?

Not in my mind no. What is important is the actual gameplay and mechanics. Whether the characters are white, black, male, female, animal, dead transsexual lycanthrope demon it really doesn't make a difference to me.

 

[Muspelheim]

I think , if the gender and apparence of your character hinders you from playing/enjoyin a game, you are doing it wrong. That's like saying , i can't stand to play monopoly , because the monopoly mascot is a white guy with a black hat and a monocle.

So much this. Why do people even care about the gender or appearance of the protagonist. It's such a non-issue. What should really matter is whether the game is good or not.

And character design and actions aren't a part of what makes it good, then?

Not in my mind no. What is important is the actual gameplay and mechanics. Whether the characters are white, black, male, female, animal, dead transsexual lycanthrope demon it really doesn't make a difference to me.

Suppose it's simply a matter of different tastes, then. Certainly, the core gameplay is important, but I really think context and set-dressing is important, as well. The gameplay can be perfectly functional, but if it only stars grey quads against untextured backgrounds, it would simply not be a very engaging experience.

 

[Saelune]

Not all males are manly. I know Im not. I favor feminine male characters which are rare outside of Japanese games, an such characters are often criticized in the west (generally by non anime fan people though).

People wanting a good female lead, well, the male match would be a good non masculine male lead. Or even just a gay man.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

The problem with male characters in games is that they're mostly uninteresting and poorly written. This is probably an extension of most games being poorly written and most people playing them being too close to illiteracy to demand better (there's no incentive for devs to strive for quality when most of their audience thinks 'quality' means 'Game of Thrones' or 'shounen manga').

I must agree that the lack of emotion is a big issue. It leads to one-dimensional cardboard cutouts that it's impossible to give a damn about. I think another common element that plays into the same stereotype is the lack of vulnerability. I know that the Tomb Raider dev got chewed out all across the net for saying their main character should be vulnerable so that players would want to protect her, but I actually think the lack of that in most male-led games is a big contributing factor to my disgust with most male protagonists.

Actually, when I look at my recent purchases and pre-orders, I find that I've been buying more games with female protagonists than with male protagonists lately, and I think a big part of that is that I've gotten so sick and bored of the male protagonist archetypes that the industry keeps falling back on that I now actively avoid most games that contain them.

In terms of physical design, I really would like more variety. There's just only so far you can go with 'grizzled white dude with short brown hair' and 'over-designed teen-anime youth.' In addition to exploring more styles and body types, I think we might also benefit from more of an attempt to make these characters attractive (well, attractive in a way other than the way Japan is already going for that) instead of 'SUPER TOUGH DUDE RARR.'

Honestly, I think the answer to all these issues with characterization, narrative, and representation is that the industry badly needs to grow the fuck up. Truly mature and intelligent storytellers wouldn't have these amateur problems.