So what videogames do you consider to be GOOD art?

[CrustyOatmeal]

my art teacher once told me that art is what society calls art. it is a culmination of the imagination in such a way as to spark the imagination in another, whether that be through though or emotion

 

[yousodumb]

I would like to point out one of my favorite games that most everyone forgets: The Neverhood. Completely rendered in good old fashioned clay, This game has you start off with a complete Blank slate and lets you build the character from his actions and reactions to events.

With a Rich (and long!) backstory, memorable characters, and A mystery of the self, This is one of the many games with a unique quirky charm that I love.

 

[automatron]

Braid was a game I thought quite interesting and actually made me think, so I pick that.
It had a great artistic style too

 

[Imbechile]

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: This is not a rehash of the old debate on whether games are art. I'm rather asking what you find most effective in the games you consider to be art. My intention is to start an artistic discussion with games as the focus, rather than a general discussion about games as art.


Basically I know the videogame community has reached some form of resolution with Roger Ebert's statement that videogames can never be art (very sensibly we are ignoring him), but as an art student and (I would consider myself) a hardcore gamer, I can't help but keep thinking about this. For my dissertation this semester I'm using Ebert's statement and articles to write a point-counterpoint argument in defence of games as an art-form (I know it's been done to death in the gaming community but shockingly completely overlooked at art school, hence why I want to bring it up).

What games would you guys recommend I play (all in the name of research hehe) to support or reject this claim? What do you think a game needs to accomplish to be 'art'? DO you think it'simportant that the gaming industry gains recognition as an art form or could you not care less? I will try to look into any games you suggest (budget allowing) and read any articles (on either side of the debate) you could reccommend.
I will try to suggest any titles I can think of.
For anyone who somehow missed out on the article that sparked off so much controversy, you can read it here:
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/04/video_games_can_never_be_art.html

Planescape Torment. Not only does it have an unique style but also a shitload of well written text and an interesting story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape_torment

 

[Flac00]

Either play the Halo games and listen to the music or buy the soundtracks. THAT is good evidence that they are art.

Don't exactly agree with you that halo is art because of its music. But I will say this, the music is very good. PS: great picture, Marathon FTW

It's just one part of the art sandwich that makes up a game that is good art. Also, thanks. The dot, if you can tell, is the Halo Logo.

Hmm, what is the bigger symbol? It looks familiar but I cant put my finger on it. Im sure it has something to do with Marathon or Halo.

 

[Flac00]

Messages, graphics, story, music ect. are not whats important to me. Which is probably why I don't like books, movies and other art. Games live and die by their rules. Go is thousands of years old and certainly not still played for its story or sculptures. Instead of asking if a game is art, lets focus on making a game good which is complex mechanics that foster competition. Supporting horrible "art" games will only take us away from what made games good in the first place.

Uh, what are these horrible "art" games you are talking about. Games can be artistic and good at the same time.

Lots, but as a generalization I'll just say any indie game that lacks challenge or complexity. Also Heavy Rain, the Path, Dear Esther, the marrige.

Most of the ones that get funding aren't actually horrible (I'll admit) merely mediocre (think Ico, Bioshock, Okami.)

?? I don't think that Bioshock is mediocre. It is a different style of gameplay than the normal FPS. Think more along the lines of System Shock 2 style gameplay. Ps, i thought Dear Esther was fun, its the storyline that pushes it. Not all games need to be action, just most.
Point taken though

 

[Hap2]

Skies of Arcadia Legends for the older stuff, it just works and flows beautifully, such an engrossing game, and still the only game I have ever personally deemed worthy of a full 10 score.

Recently? Mass Effect 2 is really beautiful as well (I don't necessarily mean visually either).

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Everything can be art in some shape or form, but the question is are video games good art?

I'd have to say no, the way most video games are made stifles creativity and change. Many many releases trying to implement what's strong and successful at the moment, leading game development with what the market will react to at the moment and not artistic thought or design.

I think an example of good art in video game form would be Heavy Rain. Yes it uses gameplay techniques that are commonly used at the moment, but to make an entire game of it? if I didn't know if it before release I'd call them crazy, they really developed an interesting game there where you could tell the storyline and experience was crafted to invoke emotion from the player.

 

[alik44]

Jet set Radio Future. sure its grafitti and they claim its illegal but it still looks great.

 

[boholikeu]

Messages, graphics, story, music ect. are not whats important to me. Which is probably why I don't like books, movies and other art. Games live and die by their rules. Go is thousands of years old and certainly not still played for its story or sculptures. Instead of asking if a game is art, lets focus on making a game good which is complex mechanics that foster competition. Supporting horrible "art" games will only take us away from what made games good in the first place.

To be fair, the bolded statement above kinda discounts your entire opinion on this subject, but I'll bite anyway.

Uh, what are these horrible "art" games you are talking about. Games can be artistic and good at the same time.

Lots, but as a generalization I'll just say any indie game that lacks challenge or complexity. Also Heavy Rain, the Path, Dear Esther, the marrige.

Most of the ones that get funding aren't actually horrible (I'll admit) merely mediocre (think Ico, Bioshock, Okami.)

Actually all of the above games contain lots of complexity, just not where you value it. It may not be "mechanically" difficult to finish something like The Path, but the game is still intellectually challenging with the multiple layers of meaning it presents the player.

 

[Flac00]

Either play the Halo games and listen to the music or buy the soundtracks. THAT is good evidence that they are art.

Don't exactly agree with you that halo is art because of its music. But I will say this, the music is very good. PS: great picture, Marathon FTW

It's just one part of the art sandwich that makes up a game that is good art. Also, thanks. The dot, if you can tell, is the Halo Logo.

Hmm, what is the bigger symbol? It looks familiar but I cant put my finger on it. Im sure it has something to do with Marathon or Halo.

Nope, it's the Combine Logo from Half-Life 2.

Grr, i was way off. Good symbol

 

[Spark Ignition]

Yep, I agree. Plus no matter what your actions are in Fallout 3 you will always have a story that deals with survival and morality.

Any plans to post the paper here when you are finished with it?

ok update on the dissertation: This year my college expect me to write about my own practise and direction with little/no reference to outside factors, so I will probabaly have to save this article for my degree/show level dissertation next year, which to be honest is fine as it allows me to go into the debate in much greater depth. SO I may have a first draft at some point after new year (once I've written my actual coursework for this year). On the posi side, I'm just off to my mate's house to borrow Ico and Shadow of the Colossus so I'll be writing here what I think of them shortly!

 

[boholikeu]

ok update on the dissertation: This year my college expect me to write about my own practise and direction with little/no reference to outside factors, so I will probabaly have to save this article for my degree/show level dissertation next year, which to be honest is fine as it allows me to go into the debate in much greater depth. SO I may have a first draft at some point after new year (once I've written my actual coursework for this year). On the posi side, I'm just off to my mate's house to borrow Ico and Shadow of the Colossus so I'll be writing here what I think of them shortly!

I'll be interested to hear what you have to say about them.

Also, OOC, what is your practice?