So why are Atari Fucking around with the D&D licence?

StBishop

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Schnippshly said:
-snip-
D&D plots for actual D&D campaigns are also just excuses for the players to break into someone's trap-filled fortress and steal all their gold and kill them.
This is not the case in my experience.

However my DM has some form of television and media related batchelor degree and is undertaking a Masters of Creative Writing at the moment so I'm pretty goddamn lucky to have an awesome DM.

bussinrounds said:
Guess what ? Not every damn rpg these days needs to be an action game where you only control one character. There are ppl who like tactical rpgs and the dice rolling mechanics of d&d combat, which lets you control a whole party of characters and they're actions. It's more like a game of chess where thought and planning outweigh your twitch abilities or hand to eye coordination, say.

And as far as Atari goes, don't expect any good new d&d stuff coming down the pipes, as even d&d itself isn't what it used to be with the bullshit 4.0 edition. From what i'm lead to believe, any new games would be using that crap anyways.

Have you heard of Knights of the Chalice, OP ? It's an indie game that uses the 3.5 d&d rules, and is very combat heavy, but does that aspect well. http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/
Agreed on the tactical team/squad games.
Agreed on 4th ed being shit.
I'm not alone!

I'm looking into knights of the chalice as we speak I type.

ms_sunlight said:
Didn't you like Mask of the Betrayer? I really liked Mask of the Betrayer. I am such an Obsidian fangirl. The storytelling was top notch.
I didn't really like NWN 2 to be honest. Although it wasn't terrible. It's aimed in the right direction, it just sort of missed.

JMeganSnow said:
StBishop said:
Anyone else agree?
YES.

Although, to be precise, they don't have the "Dungeons and Dragons" license. They have the "Forgotten Realms" license, which is why they're doing Neverwinter. The Eberron license belongs to Turbine and they've actually made an awesome MMO out of it--not so much "role-playing", but I think they've really captured the dungeoneering/puzzling and combat well.

I can't imagine how their "fourth edition" BS multiplayer thing is going to turn out. Fourth edition is absolutely BOUND to the square grid battle mat, so how they're going to turn it into a decent non-turn-based game is beyond me. And they're only letting you play 5 generic characters IIRC. It looks like it's going to be a retread of that horrible Pool of Radiance thing that came out a few years back.
That's just the problem though, my favourite setting for D&D is forgotten realms. Don't get me wrong, if you gave me a different setting with the D&D style rule set, I would love the fuck out of that game. But being in forgotten realms makes it all the more dear to my heart.

There's nothing quite like the thrill of meeting Drizzt in game and fighting along side him. I want to travel to Waterdeep and see the city of splendour. I want to go to Calimport and fight through the slums. I want to go to the libraries of Silverymoon and meet Elminster or Alustrial.

Anyway... Like I said, I like the Forgotten Realms best. But it's good to know other people have access to the rights for Eberron. Anyone got Greyhawk?

Ephraim J. Witchwood said:
StBishop said:
What we're getting is either a dungeon crawler or an "actiony" RPG[footnote]Think: Diablo 2, and Torchlight[/footnote] type game rather than a proper RPG[footnote]Think: Baldur's Gate, and Arcanum[/footnote].
I'm sorry, what? An action-RPG is still an RPG.
In my experience there's not much RP in action RPG's.
Don't get me wrong, I love Actiony RPG's too, but I miss the traditional RPG's and there's plenty enough actiony RPG's to last me the next 12-18 months in my library.

viranimus said:
Its hilarious for me to see people condemning Atari for their handling of the DnD line then claiming it should be passed to Bioware like Bioware's products aren't still tightly tied into the DnD rulesets.

The DnD game mechanic is practically omnipresent in western RPGs. Just because you don't see dice rolls or numbers flashing on the screen doesn't mean it isn't happening as an invisible process underneath.

Reminds me of the guy who went car shopping and the most important thing to him was to get a V8 engine. He forgets to ask when he sees a Dodge he likes and then gets pissed because it has a "Hemi" engine.
I understand what you're saying, and some of the people saying this are simply thinking "D&D = good RPG, Bioware = good RPG developer D&D + Bioware = Good games!!" but some people want it handed back to Bioware so that we can get MOAR BALDUR'S GATE!!! Which I can support. However I know we won't simply get more of the good old days because the industry and market have changed.

Also, are you trying to imply that a Hemi is intrinsicly not a V8? Because that's false.
 

Canadish

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I've noticed that in almost all RPGs out there, there is very little to do outside of combat.

Even in the some of the classics, you spend most of your time either fighting, moving to a place to go fight some more or buying things to help you fight.
Bioware games usually give you a bit of dialogue in between at least.
DnD/Roleplaying table top games usually involved a wider variety of tasks and ways to deal with problems.

In video game RPGs you are usually presented 2 options:
1. Fight.
2. Hope you have enough morality points to talk your way through.

And the latter is usually only occasionally.

What about acrobatic skills? Thieving skills? Stealth? Some RPGs do manage this, such as Deus Ex (which also fits hacking in there).
That could add whole new sections of large and expansive platforming, or perhaps even enable a new way to maneuver in combat.
Thief skills and stealth could both add alternate ways to deal with quests/missions.

How about other skills though?
Knowledge skills? Could give you new dialouge options, it could give you combat hints on how to deal with enemy types, or lore about new locations, spell combination ideas etc.
Skills in bluffing and disguises? Dialogue options and stealth augmentation.
Climb skills? Allow the player to reach new heights in order to scout or sneak past guards, Ezio style. Or perhaps it could be used for tactical repositioning in combat?
Perception? Perhaps helpful camera angles or chimes that alert you to something happening, a trap, a cue that someone is lying, or an enemy weakness.

I'm just spit balling here, but it's the creative use of skills, abilities and items that really make table top RPGs special, and now technology has moved forward, this COULD be done in modern games. The only real limitation is development time, which is now huge due to modern graphics and presentation. However, as we've seen in the last year, graphical power is no longer the end all-be all.
Minecraft, a game with graphics worse then any PS1/N64 game, is probably the biggest hit on gaming culture in years. The game is just FUN due to the creative use of tools available to the player in order to overcome adversity. Like an RPG should be have.

Now the other thing that really makes DnD/TTRPGs special is the fact you play with your friends.
This should be easier then ever now thanks to the rise of online gaming, and indeed, this has already been noted by devs.
"DnD DaggerDale" recently came out, and while it was a pretty poor game and just a mindless hack and slash (like the OP is talking about), it did have multiplayer. And that was pretty much the only saving grace of the game.
It would have been much better though if the game had other challenges/environments to explore with your friends. Talking it over with them, applying your different abilities, making everyone unique and useful.

I think those are the two main things needed to help make a game "feel" like a proper DnD adaptation.
Those, and proper character creation obviously. The most exciting part of a campaign is always finding out what everyone is going role up. You know, because it defines how the campaign ahead will be played out. Which is usually lacking in game adaptations due to the fact:
A. There is nothing but combat, so everyone will be geared towards that
B. Like in Daggerdale, your often just given a character. And they have no personality, or flare to them. It's boring.
 

vazzaroth

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Its been the growing trend over the last 10ish years to focus on combat combat combat combat. In every game type, but RPGs show it the worst. I blame the rise of Multiplayer, as games have to appeal to the lowest common attention span of a group of players.

It's even bleeding into Tabletop RPGs, including D&D's new edition. Luckily skills are still a big portion, but even they worked those in using a combat-based system, and the RP and character development in core books if virtually non-existant. I'm not saying the rules don't support it, but compared to the entire, like, 20 page chapter on RPing your character from 3.5, 4th mentions it off hand a few times.

Neverwinter looks good simply because it's so open to modding and player content. Hopefully old RP diehards and DMs will make some compelling stuff.
 

Schnippshly

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StBishop said:
This is not the case in my experience.
However my DM has some form of television and media related batchelor degree and is undertaking a Masters of Creative Writing at the moment so I'm pretty goddamn lucky to have an awesome DM.
That's cool to hear. I've considered trying to make a D&D campaign before but it's too complicated and I pretty much never play D&D.
Good DM or no, most campaign books will have plots like "You are in a tavern and you hear about treasure, go to deathtrap dungeon to get it" then the team does some random encounters on the way to the dungeon, murders a bunch of stuff in the dungeon to get the treasure and then leaves.
 

StBishop

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Schnippshly said:
StBishop said:
This is not the case in my experience.
However my DM has some form of television and media related batchelor degree and is undertaking a Masters of Creative Writing at the moment so I'm pretty goddamn lucky to have an awesome DM.
That's cool to hear. I've considered trying to make a D&D campaign before but it's too complicated and I pretty much never play D&D.
Good DM or no, most campaign books will have plots like "You are in a tavern and you hear about treasure, go to deathtrap dungeon to get it" then the team does some random encounters on the way to the dungeon, murders a bunch of stuff in the dungeon to get the treasure and then leaves.
Yeah, I've DM'd (poorly) a couple of campaigns that never finished due to loss of Intrest from players. I'm not sure if I'd rather that they don't like D&D (saving my ego) or that they don't like my campaign (meaning they might play D&D again adding to the player base).

It is really hard to write a good campaign and really all you need to do is decide what the main plot arc is, then add in mini arcs for each session, allow a lot of wiggling room for both the PC's (so they feel free) and for yourself (to cover unforeseen plot holes).
Then it's all down to how well you characterise the NPC's and how organic you can make the world feel, which I feel is more about a sense of theatre than planning (although I'm sure it helps).
 

Saelune

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DnD is a game of maliability. Some people play real DnD as an action dungeon crawl. If this is bitching about Daggerdale, then it is misplaced. Cant you just enjoy it as a simple DnD themed dungeon crawl? If you dont like that style, dont play it, but its not wrong for some DnD license games to be one style of real DnD playing, and others being a different one.
 

Saelune

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Jerry Pendleton said:
Just give the DnD license to BioWare. They need something to pimp out once the Mass Effect trilogy is over and we need another BG.
I dont know if you are unaware of Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's gate, or if thats the very reason why you say this.

I dont think Bioware wants to keep making license games. Bioware had DnD and Star Wars license games, and they were great, but then they made Dragon Age and Mass Effect which I think is them wanting to make their own stuff, since they essentially replace DnD and Star Wars but give Bioware artistic freedom.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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i thought this would be about how atari made bioware stop selling the premium modules online for NWN1. mainly cause i just discovered it after buying a copy of neverwinter nights off gog.com....it annoyed the fuck out of me.