Somebody called me a Douche

CrysisMcGee

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Machines Are Us said:
You don't call Chick Flick's 'casual films' and Action Movies such as Indiana Jones 'hardcore' so why would you make the same distinction with games?

The are both aimed at different audiences, and both hope to achieve different reactions out of those audiences. The former is generally lighter, and aimed at women like casual games are frequently aimed at, and the latter is usually aimed at adolescent to young adult males.
Because the distinction was made by the industry themselves. I have grown up with this, and have a clear defination of each.

I am aware of your point with films. It is a similar principle, and films are targeted at certain audiences...but there was no need, they simply divided them with words and other categories. Gaems already do this as well.

But The gaming industry felt they needed to distinguish the games based on each's target audience. I'm not sure how, but I'm guessing in the beginning that games hadcore gamers played ended up being called hardcore games.
 

Legion

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CrysisMcGee said:
Machines Are Us said:
You don't call Chick Flick's 'casual films' and Action Movies such as Indiana Jones 'hardcore' so why would you make the same distinction with games?

The are both aimed at different audiences, and both hope to achieve different reactions out of those audiences. The former is generally lighter, and aimed at women like casual games are frequently aimed at, and the latter is usually aimed at adolescent to young adult males.
Because the distinction was made by the industry themselves. I have grown up with this, and have a clear defination of each.

I am aware of your point with films. It is a similar principle, and films are targeted at certain audiences...but there was no need, they simply divided them with words and other categories. Gaems already do this as well.

But The gaming industry felt they needed to distinguish the games based on each's target audience. I'm not sure how, but I'm guessing in the beginning that games hadcore gamers played ended up being called hardcore games.
I see what you mean, but really you should just ignore what the industry says, they do it to divide up their business in order to make it more manageable. As opposed to just making games and seeing who buys them, they can market games towards certain audiences, the terms are just labels used to refer to different audiences and should have no bearing on a player at all.
 

Logan Keller

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CrysisMcGee said:
I'd like them changed to Games for your mom, and games for your teenager.
So the distinction is to be made based on personal preference? Those two categories are not mutually exclusive.
 

Knight Templar

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CrysisMcGee said:
Knight Templar said:
They don't really have meaning. Pokemon can be very time consuming and have crushing depth to gameplay, yet many people would call it casual dispite it's multiplayer needing more skill than say COD4's multiplayer. Wouldn't that mean you need to call COD4 casual as it is not as "hardcore" as Pokemon, a game most others define as 100% casual?
Logicly you would, but I doubt you many people would agree.

Start calling games "good" and "evil" based on paper thin reasoning and people would call you crazy, so why are equaly arbitrary and undefined terms ok?

Furthermore if a game is more hardcore than another how do you express this? As a percentage, or fraction, or letter?
It seems the definations have become obscured and overused. Pokemon could be considered both, and that is where the confusion comes in. It's not the games themselves that people hate, its the stigma surrounding the words. I think we should change them into games for your mom, and games for your teenager.
That wouldn't solve anything, and the negative connotations of casual would be exacerbated if called "games for your mum". Thats another problem with these labes, they are often used as nothing more than praise or criticism for a particular game (in fact I belive some people would have turned against you for calling Bioshock "more casual", seeing it as an insult).

Hardcore and casual are like Ninja and Pirate, just hear me out. Every job can be described as either Pirate or Ninja, e.g. a chef is a Pirate job as they have funny hats and odd knives, whereas a cleaner is a Ninja job because they are rarely noticed. Arguing that the terms "hardcore" and "casual"(as well as the "meanings" they carry) have meaning that can be universal at this point in time is like arguing that every job should be listed as Pirate or Ninja, it's all a joke.
 

Nutcase

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Sven und EIN HUND said:
But yeah, I'm not really sure what this is about. Hardcore games vs casual games??? I'll use WoW as an exampled, in the vanilla years, it was a hardcore game.
LOL
You needed to play a lot to get places. Blizzard gradually gradually gradually made it more casual and more casual until today, when you can either play it hardcore or casual.
It might be a hardcore game for the 1% of the population that plays arenas to win, but for the rest it's grindan grindan grindan. Success assured if you have a pulse.
 

DazZ.

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The term hardcore is doucheish and makes you sound like a ponce if used seriously.

"Casual" is rad though.
 

Fraught

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You do understand what a douche means, right?

Saying you're a douche for talking about them does, in absolutely no way imply, that there isn't a distinction between the two.
 

Swaki

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first of all, your a douche, secondly i wouldn't say the difference between casual and "hardcore" lies in the games, but in the time the gamer puts in to them, the numbers of games they play (no i wouldn't call a guy who have played the same game for 2 years a hardcore gamer) and how much interest they have, so a guy who plays every single pop cap and other "casual" games, invest allot of time in to them and reads up on news about them is in my eyes every bit as hardcore as some other guy who does the same whit fps's on hard where you die after 1 shot.


douche.
 

CrysisMcGee

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swaki said:
first of all, your a douche, secondly i wouldn't say the difference between casual and "hardcore" lies in the games, but in the time the gamer puts in to them, the numbers of games they play (no i wouldn't call a guy who have played the same game for 2 years a hardcore gamer) and how much interest they have, so a guy who plays every single pop cap and other "casual" games, invest allot of time in to them and reads up on news about them is in my eyes every bit as hardcore as some other guy who does the same whit fps's on hard where you die after 1 shot.


douche.
Yes yes, I am a douche for placing people and games in demographics that have been established by the gaming industry.

Also, It's personal opinion, so don't act like a jerk. Just because you don't think something is hardcore or casual does not mean others do not, and vice versa.

The definetion of each differs from person to person, just like soylent green.
 

TikiShades

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I believe that a game is only hardcore if it has the ability to put immense dedication and strategy to play. Games aren't "hardcore", a player is.

Take Wii Bowling for example. If you wanted to, you could break it down and see exactly how you needed to move the controller to get a strike every time.
It might take a bit of focus and determination, but it's pretty possible. It's just not usually done. No one needs to do that. With regular practice, you could probably get it down anyway, or at least close.

Now take Street Fighter 4. You bought the FightStick, and unlocked every character. Now you get out your calculator and ruler, and start measuring the length of the health bar, and measuring which combos do how many inches/cenimeters/millimeters of damage, then finding the percent of the total health bar it does. You measure the accuracy of the attack, the distance it travels, how fast the attack is performed, the amount of Super/Ultra the attack fills or empties, how fast you can dish the combo out on the FightStick, how much damage it does if blocked, and so on. Then recording how common each character is used, and doing the above process for them first, then learning how to block, dodge, and counterattack that character's combos.
As you can see, if you wanted to, you could do quite a bit of research and study into Street Fighter 4 so you can be one of the most irrationally good players out there. Sure, you could practice and learn how to on the way, but this process could do it in a way much more efficient and effective, even if it's harder to do. THIS is taking a game to a hardcore level.

Now I do realize that I went a bit overboard on that Street Fighter 4 thing, but I'm making a general idea. A hardcore game is a game that can be researched to an extent. Even so, the game isn't just 'hardcore'. The PLAYER has to be hardcore. I play my share of Team Fortress 2, but it doesn't mean I've figured out the most effective places to put my sticky bombs, or the best place to snipe from. I play Team Fortress 2 semi-casually. I play it to relax. I don't play it to be the most ridiculously best player.

Even if you don't do all this research on a game, it doesn't mean that you aren't a hardcore gamer. A casual gamer is simply someone who plays a game every now and then. If you buy game merchendise, or learned the lingo, or participate in tournaments, or anything more that's than the occasional game (maybe with a friend), then you probably are a hardcore gamer.

Most of the people who play online ARE more than just casual gamers. It's pretty simple. It shouldn't be very hard to find out if you are a hardcore gamer or not. That's my two cents.
 

KaiRai

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I'm struggling to get what you're trying to get at here.

It looks like you're saying we'll start calling games "games" again and no longer just call them by their genre.

?
 

Swaki

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CrysisMcGee said:
swaki said:
first of all, your a douche, secondly i wouldn't say the difference between casual and "hardcore" lies in the games, but in the time the gamer puts in to them, the numbers of games they play (no i wouldn't call a guy who have played the same game for 2 years a hardcore gamer) and how much interest they have, so a guy who plays every single pop cap and other "casual" games, invest allot of time in to them and reads up on news about them is in my eyes every bit as hardcore as some other guy who does the same whit fps's on hard where you die after 1 shot.


douche.
Yes yes, I am a douche for placing people and games in demographics that have been established by the gaming industry.

Also, It's personal opinion, so don't act like a jerk. Just because you don't think something is hardcore or casual does not mean others do not, and vice versa.

The definetion of each differs from person to person, just like soylent green.
c'mon that post wasn't hateful, the reason i called you a douche is because of your strange title for this post, i don't think your an douche for your opinion i was just playing along on the joke i thought you were making.

i meant no harm and i am sorry you took it that way, im sure you don't 'pop that collar dawg' or paint yourself orange before hittin' da club, but are in fact an overall nice person.

edit: also i dint get the soylent green reference, its made of people there are no other definitions.
 

CrysisMcGee

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swaki said:
CrysisMcGee said:
swaki said:
first of all, your a douche, secondly i wouldn't say the difference between casual and "hardcore" lies in the games, but in the time the gamer puts in to them, the numbers of games they play (no i wouldn't call a guy who have played the same game for 2 years a hardcore gamer) and how much interest they have, so a guy who plays every single pop cap and other "casual" games, invest allot of time in to them and reads up on news about them is in my eyes every bit as hardcore as some other guy who does the same whit fps's on hard where you die after 1 shot.


douche.
Yes yes, I am a douche for placing people and games in demographics that have been established by the gaming industry.

Also, It's personal opinion, so don't act like a jerk. Just because you don't think something is hardcore or casual does not mean others do not, and vice versa.

The definetion of each differs from person to person, just like soylent green.
c'mon that post wasn't hateful, the reason i called you a douche is because of your strange title for this post, i don't think your an douche for your opinion i was just playing along on the joke i thought you were making.

i meant no harm and i am sorry you took it that way, im sure you don't 'pop that collar dawg' or paint yourself orange before hittin' da club, but are in fact an overall nice person.

edit: also i dint get the soylent green reference, its made of people there are no other definitions.
Sorry. I've recieved a lot of hate lately for using these terms. Also, the soylent green reference should have been Soylent Cola, the taste differs from person to person. It's a Futurama reference.