Something Important Happens on 11/11/11 (Not Another Skyrim Thread)

cerealnmuffin

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11/11/11 in Korea here is super Peppero day.... a holiday for candy that is like pocky -_-. I'm buying some to share with students and they will probably give me some (though i don't like the taste of the stuff). It is peppero day cause the company noticed that the number 1 looks like a stick and thus peppero candy. Lol, i thought hallmark was the genius of creating unimportant nonsense holidays. So yeah such a trivial "holiday" shares same day as an important one like Rememberance Day.
 

Tharwen

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DracoSuave said:
Tharwen said:
DracoSuave said:
Tharwen said:
Sparrow said:
I'll damn well make sure my trap will be shut and that my chest will proudly display my poppy.

Vegosiux said:
My opinion is that if we have to keep reminding ourselves of our past mistakes, then we have learned nothing from them.
It's not a mistake. We're honouring those who died protecting our people and our values. It's the opposite of a mistake.
So the people they were fighting were mistaken instead?
I was talking specifically about the enemy soldiers.
And I wasn't?
German soldiers didn't commit genocide (well... some helped, obviously). They were mostly just protecting the freedom of their country and everyone they knew.
 

DracoSuave

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Tharwen said:
German soldiers didn't commit genocide (well... some helped, obviously). They were mostly just protecting the freedom of their country and everyone they knew.
That still doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake. I'm not trying to vilify the soldiers... but if you go off to war, honor, all that... and when the war's over you find that your country's been mass exterminating innocent people while you've been trying to defend the freedom of those same people?

Yeah. You made a mistake. The most generous thing that can be said about German people, either the citizenry, or the soldiery... is that they made a mistake. A collosal mistake. This is assuming that they didn't know. They they didn't have a clue. They they were kept in the dark.

Saying it was a mistake is being pretty generous, to be honest.

Vegosiux said:
Well, while I see your point I have a major problem with this reasoning that "2 minutes of silence is the only proper way to observe it and show you respect it".
The two minutes is about a country as a whole getting together to celebrate and mourn the soldiers who died for its freedom. There's many ways to mourn... but this is the way the country has chosen.

And given the point is the country is doing it, yes, a little conformity is in order here. Otherwise, it's not a country united to remember.
 

Vegosiux

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DracoSuave said:
Tharwen said:
German soldiers didn't commit genocide (well... some helped, obviously). They were mostly just protecting the freedom of their country and everyone they knew.
That still doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake. I'm not trying to vilify the soldiers... but if you go off to war, honor, all that... and when the war's over you find that your country's been mass exterminating innocent people while you've been trying to defend the freedom of those same people?

Yeah. You made a mistake. The most generous thing that can be said about German people, either the citizenry, or the soldiery... is that they made a mistake. A collosal mistake. This is assuming that they didn't know. They they didn't have a clue. They they were kept in the dark.

Saying it was a mistake is being pretty generous, to be honest.
So treason is okay as long as it benefits the winning side?

You know, the axis soldiers fought for exactly the same thing(s) as the allied ones. For their wives at home. Their children. Their homeland. If that's a mistake, well...treason IS the only alternative when the horn is sounded.
 

Tharwen

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DracoSuave said:
Tharwen said:
German soldiers didn't commit genocide (well... some helped, obviously). They were mostly just protecting the freedom of their country and everyone they knew.
That still doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake. I'm not trying to vilify the soldiers... but if you go off to war, honor, all that... and when the war's over you find that your country's been mass exterminating innocent people while you've been trying to defend the freedom of those same people?

Yeah. You made a mistake. The most generous thing that can be said about German people, either the citizenry, or the soldiery... is that they made a mistake. A collosal mistake. This is assuming that they didn't know. They they didn't have a clue. They they were kept in the dark.

Saying it was a mistake is being pretty generous, to be honest.
OK, I see your point there. Does that mean they shouldn't be remembered after death?
 

DracoSuave

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Vegosiux said:
So treason is okay as long as it benefits the winning side?
Not relevant to my argument. The mistake is irrelevant to your side winning or losing.

The mistake is defending the freedom of your innocent people while your government is slaughtering your innocent people.

Fighting for your country for a noble purpose is a mistake when your country is diametricly opposed to that noble purpose. Whether you were aware of it or not... it's still a mistake.

Tharwen said:
OK, I see your point there. Does that mean they shouldn't be remembered after death?
Of course they should be remembered--and it's up to their country to band together to do that. If Germany has a rememberance day I have no problem with that; nor Italy (who'se been on both sides in those wars).

Nor do I think German soldiers made a mistake in WW1.

Saying they made a mistake doesn't mean their sacrifice should not be honored by their people; but it doesn't make their mistake any less of one.

Germany's the one to make the determination there, tho. Not any of us.
 

Vegosiux

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DracoSuave said:
Fighting for your country for a noble purpose is a mistake when your country is diametricly opposed to that noble purpose. Whether you were aware of it or not... it's still a mistake.
I'm sorry. And I come from a country that was occupied by the Reich 41-45, yet I still can't accept that line of reasoning. Let's leave it at that.
 

DracoSuave

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Vegosiux said:
DracoSuave said:
Fighting for your country for a noble purpose is a mistake when your country is diametricly opposed to that noble purpose. Whether you were aware of it or not... it's still a mistake.
I'm sorry. And I come from a country that was occupied by the Reich 41-45, yet I still can't accept that line of reasoning. Let's leave it at that.
I don't understand where the failure in logic is.

You're out to defend the freedom and lives of citizens. Your government is stripping citizens of their rights, and later, executing them en masse.

It's very simple logic: If you're fighting to protect something, and someone else is trying to destroy that something, then that someone else is your enemy. If your government is destroying that something, then they are your enemy. If your government is your enemy, then treason is the correct course of action (reasonably carried out of course.)

What they did wasn't the wrong choice, given the information they had. That doesn't NOT make it a mistake. This is assuming they weren't acting with knowledge of what was happening.

Many German soldiers are innocent. Why are they innocent? Because the German people, including the soldiers... made a terrible, horrible mistake. An understandable mistake. A reasonable mistake. But... a huge mistake non-the-less.

Putting on a uniform doesn't make you less responsible for your peoples' mistakes.
 

Baron von Blitztank

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Well, I'm in the UK so yes we do.
I think they're messing around with the timetables at school tomorrow just so that we can all be inside and in class for the two minute silence. I'll do my part by shutting up for 2 minutes but don't expect me to care about the war dead when I'm doing it.
 

fragmaster09

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we still do it, our lessons in school all stopp for 2 mins every closest weekday to 11/11/11 at 11:00, that meaning tomorrow...

but you knew that already.

and why are there so many skyrim threads? it seems to me to be Fallout with wildlife, and the occasional fantasy cliché, so what's all the hype for?
 

Blunderboy

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fragmaster09 said:
we still do it, our lessons in school all stopp for 2 mins every closest weekday to 11/11/11 at 11:00, that meaning tomorrow...

but you knew that already.

and why are there so many skyrim threads? it seems to me to be Fallout with wildlife, and the occasional fantasy cliché, so what's all the hype for?
The Elder Scrolls is rightly a very popular series, that's older than Fallout 3 and NV by quite a stretch.
The amount of threads is annoying though.
I'm taking my own thread off topic now.
 

SinorKirby

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Soviet Heavy said:
SinorKirby said:
I have never heard of this holiday before. Not once. I'm betting it's probably because I'm American and such.

I guess I will kindly excuse myself from the thread and let you British people talk it out.
You guys call it Veterans Day I believe.
Oh yeah. Found this out yesterday from my friends. I tend to space on the holidays that aren't advertised everywhere since I don't check my calendar regularly. Plus I forget things easily.

Riddle78 said:
Lest we forget. Finally,someone realizes that Bethesda chose a really wonked up date to release their game.

N'oubliez pas.
Or they did this so people would have more time to play Skyrim on release day since schools are closed here in the states. Who knows? Only Bethesda.
 

CosmicCommander

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I feel it's a tad callous that they scheduled Skyrim on Remembrance Day- surely they know it's a day of sombreness and reflection?
 

infinity^infinity

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They do this here in America as well. I won't be able to go to it because I have to be in Charlottesville for the weekend, but the Community College I teach at is holding a reading of the names of people who died in, I think, the Middle East.
 

Riddle78

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SinorKirby said:
Soviet Heavy said:
SinorKirby said:
I have never heard of this holiday before. Not once. I'm betting it's probably because I'm American and such.

I guess I will kindly excuse myself from the thread and let you British people talk it out.
You guys call it Veterans Day I believe.
Oh yeah. Found this out yesterday from my friends. I tend to space on the holidays that aren't advertised everywhere since I don't check my calendar regularly. Plus I forget things easily.

Riddle78 said:
Lest we forget. Finally,someone realizes that Bethesda chose a really wonked up date to release their game.

N'oubliez pas.
Or they did this so people would have more time to play Skyrim on release day since schools are closed here in the states. Who knows? Only Bethesda.
However,in Canada (at least in Ontario),school ISN'T closed for Rememberance Day. And,since I live in an area that literaly would not be inhabited by humans if it were not for the military base,I'm biased with my opinion on the release date.

You should NEVER make a major release on November 11th. Well,it oculd be worse,though. Someone could've released the latest "War is fun" shooter on the eleventh,instead.
 

Stammer

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Riddle78 said:
However,in Canada (at least in Ontario),school ISN'T closed for Rememberance Day. And,since I live in an area that literaly would not be inhabited by humans if it were not for the military base,I'm biased with my opinion on the release date.

You should NEVER make a major release on November 11th. Well,it oculd be worse,though. Someone could've released the latest "War is fun" shooter on the eleventh,instead.
Yeah, I kinda cringed at each of the dozens of things I heard were coming out on Remembrance Day this year. Like 5 different video games and like 5 different movies. As much as I hate it, I understand that they're doing it for the convenience of date-remembering. Pretty hard to forget 11-11-11.

But for all of us who actually do respect this day for what it truly represents, we can still respect our soldiers, our veterans, and our heroes regardless.

I wish all of you a happy and mindful Remembrance Day today!
 

FamoFunk

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I had my two-minutes of silence, even my two-year did.
I think anyone who doesn't care about Remembrance day is a bit of a dick tbh.