Sony Announces Female Spider-Man Spin-Off

immortalfrieza

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Phil the Nervous said:
With that perspective, any of Iron man's weapon reveals: repulsors, shoulder gun, wrist rocket, even his flight would be considered random powers pulled out of nowhere. They're not mentioned by any of the character or foreshadowed in any way whatsoever prior to him using them. He's just wearing armor. Likewise, Groot is just made of branches.
What? They spend most of the first movie showing Tony building and testing all of those, so no, they aren't pulled out of nowhere. By contrast, with Groot we don't see him using any of his powers except his growth and regeneration at any point prior to a problem coming along that he then just uses the power to solve. I don't see him playing around with those glowing seeds or chemical generation or anything like that prior to him using those powers to solve the current problem.

As for the crash, Groot enclosed his friends in a network of branches to spread out the kinetic energy from the crash. I'm no astrophysicist (Groot actually is) but a quick wiki search reveals space capsules using something very similar. It's called splashdown.

and that's not pulled out of thin air at all, the movie spends alot of time showing him growing branches.
And then showing how incredibly fragile they are at every opportunity. Space capsules are made out of significantly sterner stuff than branches.

actually, now that I've typed this, we're talking about two different things. You're talking about characters using existing abilities in an intelligent and non-linear way.
No, I'm talking about characters using their abilities in ways that make them look like walking Deus Ex Machinas.
What I didn't like was Electro gaining Magneto's powers... and somehow forgetting he had Magneto's powers. Teleporting, then forgetting he could do that. At any point in that fight he could have thrown electricity through the "special magnetic" web shooters to kill Pete, compressed them to break his wrists, or simply stuck them together. Instead he takes two hits, runs off for exactly the amount of time for Gwen to give her strong independent woman speech, and comes back just in time to fall to the fake science plan. And all this this is five minutes of fight scene, it gets worse when they can talk!
Except A. Spider-Man made those specially magnetic webshooters specifically to prevent what you are talking about,

B. Electro never shows any sort of control over magnetism, more like a side effect of his powers,

C. Electro teleports several times during the fight,

D. again, villains doing things they probably shouldn't or not doing things they probably should due to overconfidence, insanity, etc. is the main reason heroes keep beating the villains instead of getting their asses kicked, and

E. contrived coincidences are the bread and butter of all of fiction, not just superhero movies.

Again, you're complaining about something that's inherent to fiction in general really and superhero media in particular. If you don't like that then you aren't the intended audience and thus probably shouldn't be watching it.
 

Phil the Nervous

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immortalfrieza said:
What? They spend most of the first movie showing Tony building and testing all of those
The only thing he tests is the flight function. The anti-tank rocket, shoulder gun, heck, even the flares are all introduced into the movie when he needs them.

By contrast, with Groot we don't see him using any of his powers except his growth and regeneration at any point prior to a problem coming along that he then just uses the power to solve. I don't see him playing around with those glowing seeds or chemical generation or anything like that prior to him using those powers to solve the current problem.
His eyes glow through the whole movie. Are you objecting because he grew extra ones and attached them to dandelion puffs?

And then showing how incredibly fragile they are at every opportunity. Space capsules are made out of significantly sterner stuff than branches.
Branches were simulating the water, not the capsule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashdown

Except A. Spider-Man made those specially magnetic webshooters specifically to prevent what you are talking about,
No, he switched to conductive metals to stop Electro from blowing out the shooters again, He and Gwen have a conversation where she convinces him it's a good idea to strap conductive metals to his wrists while fighting in a thunderstorm.

B. Electro never shows any sort of control over magnetism, more like a side effect of his powers,
These seem like two mutually exclusive statements, either he never shows any sort of control over magnetism, or it's like a side effect of his powers

C. Electro teleports several times during the fight,
Yeah. To get in reach of the guy with super strength. To play 'The itsy bitsy spider' on giant steel cylinders mid-fight. Never to gain distance, never to get out of the way of a punch. Never to do anything smart.

D. again, villains doing things they probably shouldn't or not doing things they probably should due to overconfidence, insanity, etc. is the main reason heroes keep beating the villains instead of getting their asses kicked, and
But the horrible writing is what I have a problem with!

E. contrived coincidences are the bread and butter of all of fiction, not just superhero movies.
I don't know what fiction you're reading, but that statement is in no way true.

If you don't like that then you aren't the intended audience and thus probably shouldn't be watching it.
Honestly? I agree with you. If there was some way to get my time and money back in exchange for forgetting I ever saw the movie I'd do it. Hell, I'd pay money to forget that movie.
 

Something Amyss

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RJ 17 said:
Shall we cross media genres? Would you say that just because a game sells 5 million copies it's therefor good?

Opinions!
Which would be valid if I wasn't arguing simply based on the facts. Neither I nor the poster initially quoted were offering an "opinion" on quality. That was the point of the post you quoted, then proceeded to ignore.

I would not call a game that sold five million copies a flop, regardless of its quality. And that's as far as my statement requires me to go, which you should have picked up.

Regarding Green Lantern, that logic would dictate Marvel shouldn't have done Guardians either. It's still a poor argument.

Saucycarpdog said:
ASM2 made less money than the first one and yet its budget was slightly higher. The point of a sequel is to make MORE money than its predecessor.
Which, again, isn't really "flopping."

Rainbow_Dashtruction said:
To be quite honest, The Amazing Spiderman movies did a lot of things better then the originals, as well as having better writing all round. It fucked up in quite a few areas, mainly making memorable villains, but alas, I've found DC is the only one who makes good villains while Marvel has really only ever made good Superheroes. If the two should fuse then I might actually care about them one day.

Plus, the ending to Amazing Spiderman 2 kinda made up for the terrible villains.
Wait, what? Someone who doesn't outright hate the movie? Are you sure you're real?

>.>

But seriously, it's definitely not without flaws. It's also not above criticism. It's more the hate that gets piled on it that amazes me.

At the same time, I think my favourite Spidey is the Spectacular cartoon, so I'm not really praising the movie all that highly. ASM 1 is probably my favourite Spider-Man movie, but I didn't think the first three were any good, so "best out of this" isn't exactly high praise.
SonOfVoorhees said:
As much as a female spider woman would be great.
Well, a male Spider-Woman would be awkward.

But regarding origins, we're going to get an origin story no matter who they spin off, so it probably doesn't matter.
 

immortalfrieza

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Phil the Nervous said:
immortalfrieza said:
What? They spend most of the first movie showing Tony building and testing all of those
The only thing he tests is the flight function. The anti-tank rocket, shoulder gun, heck, even the flares are all introduced into the movie when he needs them.
Did you forget the part where he's getting chased by jets and uses those flares to break off pursuit? Or the part where he's shown building and testing the repulsor rays? The rest is stuff he used against enemies he could have taken out easily anyway. Just showing Tony building and testing a bunch of stuff is enough anyway, it allows the viewer to infer that he made more we don't see.
His eyes glow through the whole movie. Are you objecting because he grew extra ones and attached them to dandelion puffs?
No, his eyes don't glow, in fact they're black as pitch, so I don't know where you got that idea.

Branches were simulating the water, not the capsule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashdown
That would be relevant except that all the splashdown in the world won't protect someone from the affects of terminal velocity, any more than some random person jumping out of a plane and hitting the water at terminal velocity wouldn't kill them. The only way that entire scene would have made sense is if Groot's body had been shown capable of resisting forces comparable to terminal velocity, and he's probably one of the most fragile characters I've ever seen in a superhero movie.
No, he switched to conductive metals to stop Electro from blowing out the shooters again, He and Gwen have a conversation where she convinces him it's a good idea to strap conductive metals to his wrists while fighting in a thunderstorm.
Except that he uses magnetic repulsion to protect himself. Peter spends a scene in the movie trying to change the material in his webshooters into something that would be nonconductive but finds it fruitless, so he goes with the magnetic repulstion


These are two mutually exclusive statements, either he never shows any sort of control over magnetism, or it's like a side effect of his powers
No they aren't. Magnetism is a side effect of his powers, that doesn't mean he can just wave his hand and make magnetism do whatever he wants whenever he wants like Magneto can. Electro's powers can cause an effect =/= Electro can control that effect.
Yeah. To get in reach of the guy with super strength. To play 'The itsy bitsy spider' on giant steel cylinders mid-fight. Never to gain distance, never to get out of the way of a punch. Never to do anything smart.
So the villain uses his powers to dick around with the hero which gives the hero the opportunity to stop him. Again, this is Villain 101. Do you think it makes any sense that countless Bond villains strap him to some deathtrap instead of shooting Bond on the spot? Do you think it makes any sense that villains stand around telling the hero what their plans are when they otherwise wouldn't have known jack? Do you think it makes any sense that villains try to turn the hero to their side after it's blatantly obvious they won't do it?

This is the kind of things villains do, it doesn't have to make sense. These things happen because we wouldn't have a story to view without it, that's it. Again, this is something that anybody who's even near the viewer rating age should be expecting by now.

But the horrible writing is what I have a problem with!
It's not horrible writing, you're just obsessing over the fact that somebody else who is not you didn't think of doing something you would have if you were in their situation. Newsflash, you are not Electro or Spider-Man or anyone else in those movies so I recommend you try and avoid thinking you'd make better or even different choices then they would.
I don't know what fiction you're reading, but that statement is in no way true.
So, say when on a crime procedural they need to find a particular piece of evidence to prove their case and some guy walks in holding it isn't a contrived coincidence? When any random fight between the heroes and a bunch of mooks happens and the calvary shows up out of nowhere to save them, that's not a contrived coincidence? And so on. There isn't a bit of fiction anywhere where stuff like that doesn't happen, this is just one of the times you actually notice it.

Honestly? I agree with you. If there was some way to get my time and money back in exchange for forgetting I ever saw the movie I'd do it. Hell, I'd pay money to forget that movie.
Considering that you and anybody else should have known what you were getting into long before you ever walked into the movie and thus should have known that you weren't going to like it so I don't sympathize. So many people just love watching a TV show or movie knowing ahead of time that they aren't the audience for it and then later whining about it sucking when it's perfectly fine, it's just that their tastes aren't aligned to what they were seeing. You wouldn't hit yourself with a hammer expecting it to prevent pain, you wouldn't stand in the rain expecting to get dry and you shouldn't walk into a superhero movie expecting to see anything but the very things I've been saying are standard a few times already.
 

Phil the Nervous

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immortalfrieza said:
Phil the Nervous said:
immortalfrieza said:
What? They spend most of the first movie showing Tony building and testing all of those
The only thing he tests is the flight function. The anti-tank rocket, shoulder gun, heck, even the flares are all introduced into the movie when he needs them.
Did you forget the part where he's getting chased by jets and uses those flares to break off pursuit?
That's not building or testing. He's on his way back from a fight and the jets go after him.

Or the part where he's shown building and testing the repulsor rays? The rest is stuff he used against enemies he could have taken out easily anyway. Just showing Tony building and testing a bunch of stuff is enough anyway, it allows the viewer to infer that he made more we don't see.
He doesn't test the rays at all. He flips out after seeing the kidnapping and uses them to blow up his (glass) wall.

No, his eyes don't glow, in fact they're black as pitch, so I don't know where you got that idea.
There's a consistent shine in his eyes, even in the room where Quill says there's no light

That would be relevant except that all the splashdown in the world won't protect someone from the affects of terminal velocity, any more than some random person jumping out of a plane and hitting the water at terminal velocity wouldn't kill them. The only way that entire scene would have made sense is if Groot's body had been shown capable of resisting forces comparable to terminal velocity, and he's probably one of the most fragile characters I've ever seen in a superhero movie.
Not entirely sure where you're getting fragile from. He loses his limbs *ba dum tss* to a blade that could be anything from regular steel to the Dragon's Tooth (Deus Ex). Afterwards you see him take fire from multiple machine guns that don't impair him in any way whatsoever.

Except that he uses magnetic repulsion to protect himself. Peter spends a scene in the movie trying to change the material in his webshooters into something that would be nonconductive but finds it fruitless, so he goes with the magnetic repulsion
Which doesn't in any way change the fact that Electro still used them to throw him around like a ragdoll then... stopped doing that for no reason at all.

So the villain uses his powers to dick around with the hero which gives the hero the opportunity to stop him. Again, this is Villain 101. Do you think it makes any sense that countless Bond villains strap him to some deathtrap instead of shooting Bond on the spot? Do you think it makes any sense that villains stand around telling the hero what their plans are when they otherwise wouldn't have known jack? Do you think it makes any sense that villains try to turn the hero to their side after it's blatantly obvious they won't do it?
Every example you gave is also an example of bad storytelling. That doesn't make this scene okay, it just means there's a lot of dumb scenes like it. Also, the bad guys do kill Bond every once in a while. That's their explanation for the different actors.

This is the kind of things villains do, it doesn't have to make sense. These things happen because we wouldn't have a story to view without it, that's it. Again, this is something that anybody who's even near the viewer rating age should be expecting by now.
Why? Why can't the bad guys be smarter. Why should people have to accept bad ideas and lazy writing. What's wrong with setting higher goals for movies?

So, say when on a crime procedural they need to find a particular piece of evidence to prove their case and some guy walks in holding it isn't a contrived coincidence? When any random fight between the heroes and a bunch of mooks happens and the calvary shows up out of nowhere to save them, that's not a contrived coincidence?
Only when it's not foreshadowed

There isn't a bit of fiction anywhere where stuff like that doesn't happen.
Worm. I Robot. Equilibrium. Methods. Inception. Wreck it Ralph. Tombstone. The Dark World. Most of the Dresden Files books. Anything from Pratchett.

Considering that you and anybody else should have known what you were getting into long before you ever walked into the movie and thus should have known that you weren't going to like it so I don't sympathize.
No. There was Nothing in the trailer that gave an honest impression of the movie. Rhino gets 3x the amount of trailer coverage as Harry and he's in the movie for less than three minutes. In the trailer you get Richard Parker saying 'Oscorp was going to use my research for horrible things' while a guy walks by vulture wings, doc ock arms, and a rhino suit' while in the movie Norman was trying to find a cure for his hereditary insanity. There's nothing similar.

you shouldn't walk into a superhero movie expecting to see anything but the very things I've been saying are standard a few times already.
And I've been telling you that these things are not standard any more and I've given examples...
We're not gonna agree on this :/
 

immortalfrieza

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Phil the Nervous said:
That's not building or testing. He's on his way back from a fight and the jets go after him.
And? That's not particularly relevant.

He doesn't test the rays at all. He flips out after seeing the kidnapping and uses them to blow up his (glass) wall.
Looks like you forgot another scene where Pepper walks in, sees him working on a Repulsor ray claiming it's a "flight stabilizer" before he goes flying after inadvertently firing it. Shooting the glass is him testing it anyway.

There's a consistent shine in his eyes, even in the room where Quill says there's no light
Wrong, his eyes are completely black all the time, and even if they weren't it wouldn't foreshadow anything anyway.

Not entirely sure where you're getting fragile from. He loses his limbs *ba dum tss* to a blade that could be anything from regular steel to the Dragon's Tooth (Deus Ex). Afterwards you see him take fire from multiple machine guns that don't impair him in any way whatsoever.
Don't impair because he's not even being hit most of the time and the rare times he is the bits that are being blown off and regenerated constantly.

Which doesn't in any way change the fact that Electro still used them to throw him around like a ragdoll then... stopped doing that for no reason at all.
Maybe because he got bored with it? Maybe he needed to take a minute to recharge? Maybe any number of other things? Just because you think there isn't a reason for a character's actions doesn't mean there isn't.

Every example you gave is also an example of bad storytelling. That doesn't make this scene okay, it just means there's a lot of dumb scenes like it.
It does make it okay, because that's what the audience for that kind of media wants. It's not bad storytelling it's simply storytelling.
Also, the bad guys do kill Bond every once in a while. That's their explanation for the different actors.
An explanation which has been retconned to hell and back all the time and has never once been on screen anyway.

Why? Why can't the bad guys be smarter. Why should people have to accept bad ideas and lazy writing. What's wrong with setting higher goals for movies?
Because it's an unrealistic goal. Writers are human, they can't be expected to have all of their characters be geniuses 100% of the time and really the characters would be worse off if they could since people themselves aren't like that. People do stupid things or don't do obvious things for little to no reason all the time.

Only when it's not foreshadowed
It's still a contrived coincidence even when it is foreshadowed. It's no less of an incredibly unlikely coincidence when these things happen.
Worm. I Robot. Equilibrium. Methods. Inception. Wreck it Ralph. Tombstone. The Dark World. Most of the Dresden Files books. Anything from Pratchett.
I can't comment on most of these as I haven't seen them or seen them in a while, but I doubt these things I've been saying are standard aren't there in some form anyway.

No. There was Nothing in the trailer that gave an honest impression of the movie. Rhino gets 3x the amount of trailer coverage as Harry and he's in the movie for less than three minutes. In the trailer you get Richard Parker saying 'Oscorp was going to use my research for horrible things' while a guy walks by vulture wings, doc ock arms, and a rhino suit' while in the movie Norman was trying to find a cure for his hereditary insanity. There's nothing similar.
You should know because you are walking into a superhero movie. You should have seen enough superhero movies and movies in general to expect things like this trailer or no trailer.

And I've been telling you that these things are not standard any more and I've given examples...
We're not gonna agree on this :/
Apparently not.
 

immortalfrieza

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Phil the Nervous said:
We're not gonna agree on this :/
Apparently not.
Agree to disagree then? Even if we disagree over the specifics we can both agree that Superhero movies are awesome
If you say so. Also yes, Superhero movies are the only movies good enough for me to even watch anymore.
 

happyninja42

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Fappy said:
I don't think America is ready for the level of latex that Felicia Hardy would be bringing with her XD
Pssh, Catwoman, in both the Tim Burton, and the Halley Berry movie were poured into their outfits, and the American public was just fine with it. xD