Sony's G.I.R.L. Game Design Scholarship Offers $10,000

[Kakashi on crack]

I have very mixed feelings on this.

On one hand, I can see that they are trying to get more girls into the industry.

On the other hand I can see this being like other female scholarships, or even racially based scholarships in which no one is going to take advantage of it that wasn't already going into college/the industry anyways.

I think they have good intentions, but the way they are going about it will just create resentment in the work force, like modern-day affirmative action... Yah know?

 

[cobra_ky]

10 or 20 years ago, there were virtually no women working in any area to do with computing.

In point of fact, the percentage of women working in the computer industry actually peaked in the mid 80's and has been on the decline ever since. i couldn't a free source on the internet for that statistic, but here's a chart showing a similar trend in Bachelor's degrees granted to women. i work at a software company now and there isn't a single female programmer under the age of 30. All the new young hires coming in (myself included) are exclusively male.

Anyone claiming that programs like this are unnecessary because man and women are "equal enough already" doesn't have a grip on reality. There's a reason the software industry as a whole isn't as appealing to women as it used to be, and i doubt it's because the maths suddenly got too hard.

 

[BanicRhys]

You know why the games industry is male dominated? Because men are more inclined to enjoy video games. You don't see anyone worrying about the lack of male teachers, do you?

It's good that the scholarship is open to men (although I'm sure there would probably some bias against men who apply) but I don't like how it implies that something needs to be changed other than more women being interested in gaming.

 

[Phisi]

Yay I get to miss out of a scholarship again because I happen to be a guy and even though there is a gender imbalance in the industry that is mostly caused by social perceptions of gaming being a male past time so that their are less girls enthusiastic about gaming and less that want to become developers but at least I am the one getting punished for the possible sins of my sex and society. Isn't this all wubbly :3

Out of my relatively little experience. My mother is the IT manager of the Australian part of a multinational investment company and she was hired to this position after being the IT manager for another investment company. I am not denying that sexism still exists. It most certainly does and in all likelihood will never go away but the only way to reduce its affect is time. Affirmative action is sexist to those applying for jobs and not those who select the applicants. The fastest way to end sexism would be to remove those who are sexist in there selection but you can't know that so you must wait until they remove themselves.

 

[Beautiful End]

...And it seems one of the essay entries must discuss the importance of girls in the gaming industry or something like that.

Yep, gender equality went out the window right there. But hey, it's still a good chance for girls. I'm not gonna discuss whether the idea behind this is outdated or how this wasn't clear enough. It just is a good chance, is all.

 

[Hevva]

10 or 20 years ago, there were virtually no women working in any area to do with computing.

In point of fact, the percentage of women working in the computer industry actually peaked in the mid 80's and has been on the decline ever since. i couldn't a free source on the internet for that statistic, but here's a chart showing a similar trend in Bachelor's degrees granted to women. i work at a software company now and there isn't a single female programmer under the age of 30. All the new young hires coming in (myself included) are exclusively male.

Anyone claiming that programs like this are unnecessary because man and women are "equal enough already" doesn't have a grip on reality. There's a reason the software industry as a whole isn't as appealing to women as it used to be, and i doubt it's because the maths suddenly got too hard.

Completely agree with your second point, and the first is interesting - thank you for enlightening me. It's worth remembering also that in the 60's and 70's, a degree wasn't a guarantee of a job for a woman - they were still expected to quit when they started having babies. That report looks interesting though, something good to read this afternoon. Ta!

 

[michael87cn]

You can't buy good game design. You can't purchase creativity and imaginative thought.

Throw all the money you want at people, it won't make a game good or the people who make the game care about what they're doing.

All you're doing is trapping people in jobs "because it was financially sound/available".

 

[CosmicCommander]

Why aren't things like this offered based on merit, not one's reproductive organs/skin colour/religious affiliation?

 

[cobra_ky]

You know why the games industry is male dominated? Because men are more inclined to enjoy video games. You don't see anyone worrying about the lack of male teachers, do you?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14748273
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/27/AR2006082700273.html

Yes i do.

and this doesn't have anything to do with women enjoying gaming; they already do. This has to do with hiring practices in the industry reflecting the growing audience of women.

Why aren't things like this offered based on merit, not one's reproductive organs/skin colour/religious affiliation?

E: this IS being offered based on merit. did you read the requirements? there's nothing in reference to gender or reproductive organs.

 

[CosmicCommander]

E: this IS being offered based on merit. did you read the requirements? there's nothing in reference to gender or reproductive organs.

I read the Terms and Conditions, etc- it doesn't explicitly exclude men, but when you run a campaign with the name GIRL, and the goal being "gender equality", it's fairly self-evident that any applications from men are going to get binned fairly quickly.

I can see why they want to do this, and they do have every right to. But there are just as many talented, creative men who want to break into the industry. I don't see how gender (which this is fairly loudly crying out) should determine any of these things.

 

[The Lugz]

the only way you can fix it is by kicking one side of the scales into the right place and then removing the support. This is the kick.

no.

you create more opportunities for both genders until the unisex opportunities overwhelm the sexist ones and they disappear entirely ( or become such a small margin they're invisible to anyone but a sociologist )

your way is simply 'equally sexist' which is entirely missing the point

 

[coolkirb]

People seem to have a lot of contempt for affirmative action programs, despite what you may have been told all groups are not yet equal and there are inequalities that still need to be corrected and it will not be fixed by simply doing nothing.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

. For the longest time they were designed for the most part by men, starred men, were written about by men, etc.

Guh? As if to say, if more women in the industry, we'd get stories about women starring women? ...context is what justifies male protagonists, you aren't really going to be playing a Call of Duty with a female lead any time soon. This sentence is just illogical and weird, man. "Men are in the industry so we have stories about men!" ...yeah, well... yes? That's... um...

...most of the "better" female characters are written by and designed by men, anyway. Beyond Good and Evil? Was that designed by a man or a woman? ...or does it not matter? ...it's that. It doesn't matter. People will choose characters and stories suitable to the game they're making. Just because that so often is male-focused doesn't say anything about the people making the game.

It's the kind of design mentality that produces games like Barbie Horse Adventure. Eurgh.

 

[Duskflamer]

(this goes for acknowledgement of physical difference too - like Bethesda did a neat thing pre-Skyrim where if you chose a female character you got lower strength but higher intelligence)

Perhaps I'm misinformed, but wasn't the reason why that's no longer the case in Skyrim that it was seen as sexist in previous games? And that enough people vocally complained about it in Oblivion that Bethesda didn't bother making stats rely on gender in Skyrim?

Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but if I'm right, I find it odd that you're praising something like that as an example of celebrating gender differences while the more vocal people campaigning for gender equality in the industry see such a thing as sexist.

To clarify my views: I agree with you on that, I think having such differences can be an important aspect of a game if done with tact, it's just seems odd because you seem to be in favor of the scholarship and the ideas it represents, when following those ideas is what caused that detail to be written out of Skyrim.

 

[cobra_ky]

E: this IS being offered based on merit. did you read the requirements? there's nothing in reference to gender or reproductive organs.

I read the Terms and Conditions, etc- it doesn't explicitly exclude men, but when you run a campaign with the name GIRL, and the goal being "gender equality", it's fairly self-evident that any applications from men are going to get binned fairly quickly.

I can see why they want to do this, and they do have every right to. But there are just as many talented, creative men who want to break into the industry. I don't see how gender (which this is fairly loudly crying out) should determine any of these things.

There are many more men who actually succeed in breaking into the industry. That is the imbalance they are trying to correct for.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Oh noes! The marginalised groups are getting support to be less marginalised!

Next they'll be getting actual equality, head for the hills!

Yes, people are worried about the possibility of organized discrimination, so they must be overrating. -_-

 

[Hevva]

. For the longest time they were designed for the most part by men, starred men, were written about by men, etc.

Guh? As if to say, if more women in the industry, we'd get stories about women starring women? ...context is what justifies male protagonists, you aren't really going to be playing a Call of Duty with a female lead any time soon. This sentence is just illogical and weird, man. "Men are in the industry so we have stories about men!" ...yeah, well... yes? That's... um...

...most of the "better" female characters are written by and designed by men, anyway. Beyond Good and Evil? Was that designed by a man or a woman? ...or does it not matter? ...it's that. It doesn't matter. People will choose characters and stories suitable to the game they're making. Just because that so often is male-focused doesn't say anything about the people making the game.

It's the kind of design mentality that produces games like Barbie Horse Adventure. Eurgh.

It doesn't matter what gender the person who wrote Jade was; she's an exception to the rule. To say otherwise is to ignore reality. When you have a creative industry overwhelmingly dominated by men, you're going to wind up with characters and situations which overwhelmingly reflect the male condition. I'm not saying have every game made by women be tailored to women; I'm just saying that by having more women involved in the development process, to say more designers naturally familiar with what life is like as a girl, you're naturally (or hopefully) going to wind up with a greater variety of in-game stories and situations which reflect those things. It's nothing much, just a side point if anything. You're right centrally - good writing and design trumps all markers, be they based on gender, race, religion or otherwise.

(this goes for acknowledgement of physical difference too - like Bethesda did a neat thing pre-Skyrim where if you chose a female character you got lower strength but higher intelligence)

Perhaps I'm misinformed, but wasn't the reason why that's no longer the case in Skyrim that it was seen as sexist in previous games? And that enough people vocally complained about it in Oblivion that Bethesda didn't bother making stats rely on gender in Skyrim?

Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but if I'm right, I find it odd that you're praising something like that as an example of celebrating gender differences while the more vocal people campaigning for gender equality in the industry see such a thing as sexist.

To clarify my views: I agree with you on that, I think having such differences can be an important aspect of a game if done with tact, it's just seems odd because you seem to be in favor of the scholarship and the ideas it represents, when following those ideas is what caused that detail to be written out of Skyrim.

I don't agree that it was sexist at all. Do I have to? I think it's a perfectly tacit acknowledgement of the physical differences between men and women. If others disagree, well, that's their right. I can still hold the opinions that I do about the scholarship at the same time as thinking that. No one person's ideology fits neatly into the chaos of "general consensus"; to try and force yourself to do so is to deny your brain the right it has to roam and form its own opinions.

 

[Duskflamer]

(this goes for acknowledgement of physical difference too - like Bethesda did a neat thing pre-Skyrim where if you chose a female character you got lower strength but higher intelligence)

Perhaps I'm misinformed, but wasn't the reason why that's no longer the case in Skyrim that it was seen as sexist in previous games? And that enough people vocally complained about it in Oblivion that Bethesda didn't bother making stats rely on gender in Skyrim?

Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but if I'm right, I find it odd that you're praising something like that as an example of celebrating gender differences while the more vocal people campaigning for gender equality in the industry see such a thing as sexist.

To clarify my views: I agree with you on that, I think having such differences can be an important aspect of a game if done with tact, it's just seems odd because you seem to be in favor of the scholarship and the ideas it represents, when following those ideas is what caused that detail to be written out of Skyrim.

I don't agree that it was sexist at all. Do I have to? I think it's a perfectly tacit acknowledgement of the physical differences between men and women. If others disagree, well, that's their right. I can still hold the opinions that I do about the scholarship at the same time as thinking that. No one person's ideology fits neatly into the chaos of "general consensus"; to try and force yourself to do so is to deny your brain the right it has to roam and form its own opinions.

I don't find it sexist either, and that's a fair point.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Oh noes! The marginalised groups are getting support to be less marginalised!

Next they'll be getting actual equality, head for the hills!

Yes, people are worried about the possibility of organized discrimination, so they must be overrating. -_-

Oh won't SOMEBODY think of the MEN?!

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Oh noes! The marginalised groups are getting support to be less marginalised!

Next they'll be getting actual equality, head for the hills!

Yes, people are worried about the possibility of organized discrimination, so they must be overrating. -_-

Oh won't SOMEBODY think of the MEN?!

...because its somehow wrong to consider both genders?