Speculation Into Sony’s Recent String of Anti-Consumer (Gamer) Behavior

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Apr 5, 2020
4,830
2,220
118

Also,


That Twitter video post seems to speak volumes about the difference in leadership styles, as well as the comparison between Shawn and Jim...





It wasn’t a multimillion seller but that’s not the point...

-Shawn Layden on cult classic game Vib Ribbon
 

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
1,808
582
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
The string isn't recent, it's been going for years, ever since they started censoring stuff the consumer would like to enjoy like they're their parents. Totally condescending. This thing is more of a run of the mill business dirtywork, not as much a content-related issue, so I don't mind it as much as stuff which affects the forms games take more directly on Sony platforms.


Like, who even here uses Eyepet. Meanwhile I bet you a lot of people here have played DMC5 at the very least.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dwarvenhobble

Elvis Starburst

Unprofessional Rant Artist
Legacy
Apr 5, 2020
2,258
238
68
Weird that EyePet of all things might've been the breaking point. I get caring for an IP, but... that one in particular? Ok then.

That second article states "the idea that PlayStation is a different company than it was when he(Shawn) left only a few years ago" and I don't quite understand. What's been happening with Sony in the past few years that I've seemingly been missing? I know that recently Sony seems to be laser focused on major AAA titles and little else recently, but that's about all I've heard about them turning into something else than they were previously. Anyone able to fill me in a little?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
11,030
3,701
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
Weird that EyePet of all things might've been the breaking point. I get caring for an IP, but... that one in particular? Ok then.

That second article states "the idea that PlayStation is a different company than it was when he(Shawn) left only a few years ago" and I don't quite understand. What's been happening with Sony in the past few years that I've seemingly been missing? I know that recently Sony seems to be laser focused on major AAA titles and little else recently, but that's about all I've heard about them turning into something else than they were previously. Anyone able to fill me in a little?
I guess it's nostalgia blindness and some selective memory. To play devil's advocate, Sony still at least cared for the more niche and smaller studios at the time in the PS3's mid life cycle, and early in the PS4's life cycle. That all changed when Sean left, and the other jerk off took over and Sony moved its base of operations to California. The problem is Sony always had this arrogant problem, even in the PS1 days. They tried to bully Capcom in those days, but Capcom bit back at them hard, and Sony left them alone for a good long while.

You have a big point and reminds me of this.

 

Hades

Elite Member
May 7, 2020
1,314
598
118
Country
The Netherlands
Sony always got arrogant when they've been performing very well. In fact all of the console makers have a long history of getting overly arrogant when things go well, which then leads to a collapse until they redeem themselves.

Nintendo went through it
Sony went through it
Microsoft went through it
Nintendo went through it again
And now its Sony's turn to get overly arrogant again.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
11,030
3,701
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
Sony always got arrogant when they've been performing very well. In fact all of the console makers have a long history of getting overly arrogant when things go well, which then leads to a collapse until they redeem themselves.

Nintendo went through it
Sony went through it
Microsoft went through it
Nintendo went through it again
And now its Sony's turn to get overly arrogant again.
Sega paid dearly for it. Cycle repeats over and over.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Dalisclock

Dwarvenhobble

Is on the Gin
May 26, 2020
4,414
494
88
Weird that EyePet of all things might've been the breaking point. I get caring for an IP, but... that one in particular? Ok then.

That second article states "the idea that PlayStation is a different company than it was when he(Shawn) left only a few years ago" and I don't quite understand. What's been happening with Sony in the past few years that I've seemingly been missing? I know that recently Sony seems to be laser focused on major AAA titles and little else recently, but that's about all I've heard about them turning into something else than they were previously. Anyone able to fill me in a little?
AAA focus
Removing innovation / unique title focus
Censoring games based on arbitrary standards
Shutting down Japanese studios or cutting them loose
Shutting down Vita marketplace without telling devs before the public announcement (some of whom bought dev kits weeks before)
Lack of care for older titles with a Sony President saying something like "Why would people want to play old games, their graphics look bad"
Releasing the Ps5 before it's fully functional (SSD expansion slot doesn't work yet and will be enabled supposedly in an upcoming update.)
For a long time just refusing to allow cross play.


I'm sure plenty more stupid things too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hanselthecaretaker

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,520
486
88
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
Sony's anti-consumer stuff pales in comparison to what Microsoft and Nintendo does. When Sony was "arrogant" with PS3 (just for doing the blu-ray drive really), Microsoft was 10x worse that very gen.
 

Dwarvenhobble

Is on the Gin
May 26, 2020
4,414
494
88
Sony's anti-consumer stuff pales in comparison to what Microsoft and Nintendo does. When Sony was "arrogant" with PS3 (just for doing the blu-ray drive really), Microsoft was 10x worse that very gen.
At this stage the choice is becoming between corporate bullshit or censorship and moving away from art and innovation which isn't a great choice.

It could give Microsoft an edge I mean the lack of games harmed Microsoft hard this gen and now here's Sony culling studios and seemingly deciding to focus only on AAA games and possibly even already proven franchises rather than trying new things (which is what gave them their edge this gen).
 

Bob_McMillan

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,828
632
118
Country
Philippines
I can definitely see Sony getting too big for their britches. It is indeed a cycle.

That said, Sony is a corporation and all corporations are shit, so I don't think we've really seen yet any bad decisions on the level of "The Kinect will monitor your kids 24/7". I guess we'll see what will happen when things begin to normalize, because for me right now the gaming industry is frozen in time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Apr 18, 2020
7,694
2,403
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
I can definitely see Sony getting too big for their britches. It is indeed a cycle.

That said, Sony is a corporation and all corporations are shit, so I don't think we've really seen yet any bad decisions on the level of "The Kinect will monitor your kids 24/7". I guess we'll see what will happen when things begin to normalize, because for me right now the gaming industry is frozen in time.
Is it time for another "LET'S ALL LEARN FROM AN INDUSTRY, WHICH NEVER LEARNS ANYTHING TE HE HE"?

I mean, aside from always.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,233
1,665
118
I think that this probably isnt as malicious as people think it is.

It isnt a good look obviously because of what microsoft is offering. However i think the explanation is much simpler.

They fucked up with the PS3 hardcore. Meaning the cell structure of that system was a fucking dumbshit move. I remember working at Activision and hearing the horror stories for just trying to get games ported over to the system.

Hell everything Acti made was made for the 360 first because it was very easy to develop for. Which mean every game was ported to ps3 not actually developed for it.

Emulation of the ps3 is known for being incredibly stupidly hard.

So i think the shutting down of the system store and the lack of preservation being strictly due to the ps3 being a massive piece of shit. This of course affects psp/vita because those stores all service the same systems, so shutting down one shuts them all down.

It's not good, but bound to happen for all these systems eventually. The days of eternal games have been gone ever since theyve been able to patch games post launch. And it is even worse not with all these "always online" games. Fucking Outriders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Specter Von Baren

stroopwafel

Elite Member
Apr 29, 2020
3,031
354
88
I think that this probably isnt as malicious as people think it is.

It isnt a good look obviously because of what microsoft is offering. However i think the explanation is much simpler.

They fucked up with the PS3 hardcore. Meaning the cell structure of that system was a fucking dumbshit move. I remember working at Activision and hearing the horror stories for just trying to get games ported over to the system.

Hell everything Acti made was made for the 360 first because it was very easy to develop for. Which mean every game was ported to ps3 not actually developed for it.

Emulation of the ps3 is known for being incredibly stupidly hard.

So i think the shutting down of the system store and the lack of preservation being strictly due to the ps3 being a massive piece of shit. This of course affects psp/vita because those stores all service the same systems, so shutting down one shuts them all down.

It's not good, but bound to happen for all these systems eventually. The days of eternal games have been gone ever since theyve been able to patch games post launch. And it is even worse not with all these "always online" games. Fucking Outriders.
In hindsight the PS3 didn't reach it's full potential but atleast Sony was willing to experiment with exotic hardware which previously led to things like the cd player, walkman or..aibo. Trying somehow new by definition means a possibility to fail. But what is the alternative? The PS5 has the same x86 architecture as the PS4 and it's better but boring and hardly feels like a generational leap. Playing it safe means no excitement and just repeating the success formulas of the past which is exactly what Sony's current policy is. Just a corporate product which success needs to satisfy shareholders. Nothing wrong with that ofcourse but don't expect novel, risky new ideas for AAA videogames or otherwise with executives that only care about the bottom line and have no personal affinity with videogames. Companies that become victim of their own success is pretty much standard practice.
 

Drathnoxis

Artificial Person
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
3,725
599
118
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Sony's has been going downhill in my opinion ever since they started charging for online multiplayer. I still hate Microsoft more for starting that trend to begin with, though. And the RRoD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,233
1,665
118
In hindsight the PS3 didn't reach it's full potential but atleast Sony was willing to experiment with exotic hardware which previously led to things like the cd player, walkman or..aibo. Trying somehow new by definition means a possibility to fail. But what is the alternative? The PS5 has the same x86 architecture as the PS4 and it's better but boring and hardly feels like a generational leap. Playing it safe means no excitement and just repeating the success formulas of the past which is exactly what Sony's current policy is. Just a corporate product which success needs to satisfy shareholders. Nothing wrong with that ofcourse but don't expect novel, risky new ideas for AAA videogames or otherwise with executives that only care about the bottom line and have no personal affinity with videogames. Companies that become victim of their own success is pretty much standard practice.
I don't agree that the PS5 isn't a generational leap. It's intro games may not be dramatically better looking than what you can already find on the PS4. But most new console generations launch with not the greatest potential showcases.

Top that off with the fact that we are basically in a graphical plateau and have been for sometime now, there will never be drastic jumps like from ps1 to ps2 ever again because photo-realism can only get so good.

I'd argue that Demon's Souls' remake is easily the best looking game on any console ever and if you combine that with the nearly instant loading and you have a clear jump between play experiences between Ps4 and 5.

Additionally look at it this way, developers usually need years with a console before they figure out it's limits. Does Assassin's Creed Odyssey not look way better and is a way bigger game than Black Flag (which was a launch ps4 title)? Does the Last of Us 2 not boast better animations and graphics than countless other earlier titles.

You have to view the growth of a system and what can become of it. As developers stop trying to put games on both generations and focus only on the next generation you start to yield far better results and potential of what the new consoles can offer. It happens every single generation. So you have to look at everything around the new system.

Now it might not be worth it to some people to make the leap until the growing pains are over and that's fine, but there is more to "next gen" this time than simple graphical fidelity.
 

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
2,636
117
68
It's not good, but bound to happen for all these systems eventually. The days of eternal games have been gone ever since theyve been able to patch games post launch. And it is even worse not with all these "always online" games. Fucking Outriders.

So uh.... 1996 then?

OR are we talking strictly consoles here

Or well, 1996 is the first big patch/udpate I recall. When they rebalanced and added online to Warcraft 2 (granted, not many people may recall the original 1995 one). IF you want go specifically into "Bad", theres 1999 where Ultima Ascension wasn't actually completable out of box (you could send in proof of purchase to get them to mail you a patch on a disk though, if you couldn't get online)

1991 if you want to go with the always Online bit (the original original Neverwinter Nights)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,233
1,665
118
So uh.... 1996 then?

OR are we talking strictly consoles here

Or well, 1996 is the first big patch/udpate I recall. When they rebalanced and added online to Warcraft 2 (granted, not many people may recall the original 1995 one). IF you want go specifically into "Bad", theres 1999 where Ultima Ascension wasn't actually completable out of box (you could send in proof of purchase to get them to mail you a patch on a disk though, if you couldn't get online)

1991 if you want to go with the always Online bit (the original original Neverwinter Nights)
Yeah I was talking about consoles since this is a thread about Sony and those consoles. I guess technically FF11 got patches on PS2, but you guys know what I mean. Day 1 patches, on disc DLC, always online requirements etc etc etc.

WE claim preservation now, but is anyone going to preserve Anthem? Fallout 76? Avengers? Lawbreakers? Battleborn? Or do they not count?

It's not like everything on the PS3 was a masterpiece, so if we want to argue about game preservation, then you have to also save the shitty games that suck ass.
 

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
2,636
117
68
Yeah I was talking about consoles since this is a thread about Sony and those consoles. I guess technically FF11 got patches on PS2, but you guys know what I mean. Day 1 patches, on disc DLC, always online requirements etc etc etc.

WE claim preservation now, but is anyone going to preserve Anthem? Fallout 76? Avengers? Lawbreakers? Battleborn? Or do they not count?

It's not like everything on the PS3 was a masterpiece, so if we want to argue about game preservation, then you have to also save the shitty games that suck ass.

I mean, out of all the games I had on PS3, the only ones lost to that were Tokyo Jungle and Hell Yeah! Wrath of the Dead Rabbit.

Most of the rest has been remasterrd, re-released, worked off disk to start with, or is on PLaystation Now
 

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Apr 5, 2020
4,830
2,220
118
In hindsight the PS3 didn't reach it's full potential but atleast Sony was willing to experiment with exotic hardware which previously led to things like the cd player, walkman or..aibo. Trying somehow new by definition means a possibility to fail. But what is the alternative? The PS5 has the same x86 architecture as the PS4 and it's better but boring and hardly feels like a generational leap. Playing it safe means no excitement and just repeating the success formulas of the past which is exactly what Sony's current policy is. Just a corporate product which success needs to satisfy shareholders. Nothing wrong with that ofcourse but don't expect novel, risky new ideas for AAA videogames or otherwise with executives that only care about the bottom line and have no personal affinity with videogames. Companies that become victim of their own success is pretty much standard practice.

I don't agree that the PS5 isn't a generational leap. It's intro games may not be dramatically better looking than what you can already find on the PS4. But most new console generations launch with not the greatest potential showcases.

Top that off with the fact that we are basically in a graphical plateau and have been for sometime now, there will never be drastic jumps like from ps1 to ps2 ever again because photo-realism can only get so good.

I'd argue that Demon's Souls' remake is easily the best looking game on any console ever and if you combine that with the nearly instant loading and you have a clear jump between play experiences between Ps4 and 5.

Additionally look at it this way, developers usually need years with a console before they figure out it's limits. Does Assassin's Creed Odyssey not look way better and is a way bigger game than Black Flag (which was a launch ps4 title)? Does the Last of Us 2 not boast better animations and graphics than countless other earlier titles.

You have to view the growth of a system and what can become of it. As developers stop trying to put games on both generations and focus only on the next generation you start to yield far better results and potential of what the new consoles can offer. It happens every single generation. So you have to look at everything around the new system.

Now it might not be worth it to some people to make the leap until the growing pains are over and that's fine, but there is more to "next gen" this time than simple graphical fidelity.


In hindsight when the dust is settled, even considering the requirement of “sweating blood” to take advantage of the PS3 hardware, it will be looked back upon as being well ahead of its time. That alone is pretty remarkable. I mean, even being bottlenecked by the split RAM pipeline and 11th hour off the shelf GPU (it was originally going to use a custom Sony GPU for rendering pixels), there is still nothing like what Sony’s most talented first parties put out. Killzone 2 and its vast deferred rendering and post processing making it look nearly like a damn painting in motion, DOTS (dynamic object traversal system) gameplay in Uncharted 2/3, God of War 3/Ascension, pumping out uncompressed 7.1 LPCM audio when everything else was still using Dolby Digital, “future proof” firmware updates granting 3D Blu-ray playback when even stand-alone players that followed it were rendered useless, running freaking Linux for homebrew support, etc. Oh, and originally complete backwards compatibility.

It was ambitious to say the least, but more importantly it was plain interesting and valuable to those that cared, and something we’ll probably never see again.

Now? It’s great that load times are pretty much non-existent and the DualSense offers enhanced controller feedback, but things like “Tempest” audio could’ve probably still been done on a Cell chip from fifteen years ago. It’s just a shame that it took so much effort to leverage, because it was - and apparently still is - an exceptionally powerful piece of silicone.



But yeah, didn’t make the best business sense by a country mile in the end.