Speculation Into Sony’s Recent String of Anti-Consumer (Gamer) Behavior

Phoenixmgs

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At this stage the choice is becoming between corporate bullshit or censorship and moving away from art and innovation which isn't a great choice.

It could give Microsoft an edge I mean the lack of games harmed Microsoft hard this gen and now here's Sony culling studios and seemingly deciding to focus only on AAA games and possibly even already proven franchises rather than trying new things (which is what gave them their edge this gen).
Sony is still probably the best big AAA publisher, though AAA overall is really bad across the board. Just about all the really good games that come out now can be played on Ryzen APUs anyway.
 

stroopwafel

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In hindsight when the dust is settled, even considering the requirement of “sweating blood” to take advantage of the PS3 hardware, it will be looked back upon as being well ahead of its time. That alone is pretty remarkable. I mean, even being bottlenecked by the split RAM pipeline and 11th hour off the shelf GPU (it was originally going to use a custom Sony GPU for rendering pixels), there is still nothing like what Sony’s most talented first parties put out. Killzone 2 and its vast deferred rendering and post processing making it look nearly like a damn painting in motion, DOTS (dynamic object traversal system) gameplay in Uncharted 2/3, God of War 3/Ascension, pumping out uncompressed 7.1 LPCM audio when everything else was still using Dolby Digital, “future proof” firmware updates granting 3D Blu-ray playback when even stand-alone players that followed it were rendered useless, running freaking Linux for homebrew support, etc. Oh, and originally complete backwards compatibility.

It was ambitious to say the least, but more importantly it was plain interesting and valuable to those that cared, and something we’ll probably never see again.

Now? It’s great that load times are pretty much non-existent and the DualSense offers enhanced controller feedback, but things like “Tempest” audio could’ve probably still been done on a Cell chip from fifteen years ago. It’s just a shame that it took so much effort to leverage, because it was - and apparently still is - an exceptionally powerful piece of silicone.



But yeah, didn’t make the best business sense by a country mile in the end.
There is no doubt successive consoles have superior graphics but despite how underutilized the PS3 was no other console could match how it handled physics in games. Just look at GTA4 or Far Cry 2. This kind of experimentation just doesn't exist anymore. It's unfortunate we'll never see a proper next-gen iteration of Cell. I think it would have been amazing.
 
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CriticalGaming

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There is no doubt successive consoles have superior graphics but despite how underutilized the PS3 was no other console could match how it handled physics in games. Just look at GTA4 or Far Cry 2. This kind of experimentation just doesn't exist anymore. It's unfortunate we'll never see a proper next-gen iteration of Cell. I think it would have been amazing.
That kind of experimentation DOES exist. It is called VR. Remind me which console make is doing that again?

The reason why you dont see mindblowing new graphics tech like physics, is because the tech is now doing little things that people ignore. The big revolutions have already happened.

But things like the way mud builds on the wheels in Red Dead 2. Or the way footsteps play in the snow like TLoU2 and God of War. Ways in which smoke and water behave. That kind of stuff is background and harder to notice. If you look carefully it is still happening though.
 

stroopwafel

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That kind of experimentation DOES exist. It is called VR. Remind me which console make is doing that again?

The reason why you dont see mindblowing new graphics tech like physics, is because the tech is now doing little things that people ignore. The big revolutions have already happened.

But things like the way mud builds on the wheels in Red Dead 2. Or the way footsteps play in the snow like TLoU2 and God of War. Ways in which smoke and water behave. That kind of stuff is background and harder to notice. If you look carefully it is still happening though.
VR sucks. I'm not denying the graphics in modern games aren't crazy good but the effects you mention are still static. Take Far Cry 2 with the dynamic fire, realistic debris and kinetic explosions that rattle the entire environment in real time. No other game had that kind of reactivity. Physics add to the gameplay unlike the surface quality of high fidelity graphics. Unfortunately it's really just the graphics that get better because it looks good in a youtube video or commercial.
 

CriticalGaming

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VR sucks. I'm not denying the graphics in modern games aren't crazy good but the effects you mention are still static. Take Far Cry 2 with the dynamic fire, realistic debris and kinetic explosions that rattle the entire environment in real time. No other game had that kind of reactivity. Physics add to the gameplay unlike the surface quality of high fidelity graphics. Unfortunately it's really just the graphics that get better because it looks good in a youtube video or commercial.
Vr sucks right now. But everyday it gets better and innovates on itself. Vr is still in its NES days, think about what it will be like in it's ps1 era.
 
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09philj

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Sony's sticking with what's worked before to an extent (make console, make exclusives, use exclusives to sell console), but its neglect of smaller studios could hurt it. Microsoft are staking everything on Gamepass, a product I fundamentally object to but others see a lot of value in. Nintendo have extricated themselves from the mess of the console wars by making a portable their only product, an arena where they are largely unopposed. PC retains the unmatchable prestige of the highest end graphics and the freedom and flexibility the platform affords. As consoles become less distinct from each other and from PCs, Sony needs to watch out they don't become redundant. Microsoft can always fall back on being the company that makes the OS that the overwhelming majority of PC games run on. Sony needs the PlayStation, but consumers may not need it in the same way.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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Sony's sticking with what's worked before to an extent (make console, make exclusives, use exclusives to sell console), but its neglect of smaller studios could hurt it. Microsoft are staking everything on Gamepass, a product I fundamentally object to but others see a lot of value in. Nintendo have extricated themselves from the mess of the console wars by making a portable their only product, an arena where they are largely unopposed. PC retains the unmatchable prestige of the highest end graphics and the freedom and flexibility the platform affords. As consoles become less distinct from each other and from PCs, Sony needs to watch out they don't become redundant. Microsoft can always fall back on being the company that makes the OS that the overwhelming majority of PC games run on. Sony needs the PlayStation, but consumers may not need it in the same way.

Sony has also long been a big name in the movie industry, albeit that’s taken its own major hit on the chin recently. They also make high end cameras and displays, but yeah, the demise of PlayStation would surely incite another restructuring. My main point of this thread was that in the long run they need more Shawn Layden’s and less Jim Ryan’s.
 
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Dalisclock

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So if Sony is going to keep the PS3/PSP/VIta store open, are they going to allow us to purchase games from our computers/phones/laptops or do we have to do it through the console itself? Because It's a hell of a lot easier to buy shit through the online store like I can for PS4/5 games but somehow not for PS3 games anymore?

Or last I checked I there's no longer a PS3 store I can access through my web browser, so if they've changed that I'd like to know.
 

CriticalGaming

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No word on whether legacy software will be available for purchase outside of their respective consoles yet, but it would make sense for the option to be universal across all their platforms so maybe they’ll amend that later as well.
Maybe they can update the ps5 firmware to allow bacjwards compatibility for psp and vita games which could be a huge benefit and a big blow to MS.
 
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Chimpzy

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Maybe they can update the ps5 firmware to allow bacjwards compatibility for psp and vita games which could be a huge benefit and a big blow to MS.
PS5 is not designed to natively run anything other than PS4 in bc, so it would need to be emulated in software. Meaning Sony would have to develop emulators. Which they very well could, they have the engineers and knowledge, and PS5 should have the horsepower. Tho that'll take time, effort, and thus money.

So question is, do they want to? Considering they wanted to close the stores, my guess is the answer is no.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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PS5 is not designed to natively run anything other than PS4 in bc, so it would need to be emulated in software. Meaning Sony would have to develop emulators. Which they very well could, they have the engineers and knowledge, and PS5 should have the horsepower. Tho that'll take time, effort, and thus money.

So question is, do they want to? Considering they wanted to close the stores, my guess is the answer is no.
Whatever benefits Sony had sought through use of unique hardware design all across the PlayStation line are coming back to haunt them. Kinda ironic how Microsoft had always struggled with the hardware side, but thanks to their immense software background they are sitting fairly pretty now.
 

Chimpzy

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Whatever benefits Sony had sought through use of unique hardware design all across the PlayStation line are coming back to haunt them. Kinda ironic how Microsoft had always struggled with the hardware side, but thanks to their immense software background they are sitting fairly pretty now.
Depends on how you look at it, I guess. Because in a sense Xbone and beyond aren't really compatible with the older systems at all. Or at least, not in the same way as most past Nintendo and Sony systems achieved their bc i.e. through hardware and/or emulation. Instead, plopping in a 360 or og Xbox disc lets you download a port that does run natively on the newer consoles.

Not saying that isn't a valid approach. As you said, Microsoft is strong in the software side of things, and those ports usually run better and at higher resolutions. But it also means the only games which will work are the ones Microsoft received the source code of. Which at current is about 27% of the 360 library and less than 5% of the og Xbox, which by itself is a monumental effort on the part of Microsoft's bc team. But opposed to say the launch PS3, which basically had most of the PS2 hardware, and so sat at close to 99% with PS1 and PS2, it doesn't seem that great . Then again, none of those got upgrades from the bc. So it's kind of partial library, but improved vs near full library, but only as good as it was.

But yeah, PS3's weird architecture definitely bit them in the ass in regards to bc.
 

Schadrach

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Meaning the cell structure of that system was a fucking dumbshit move. I remember working at Activision and hearing the horror stories for just trying to get games ported over to the system.
It was brilliant in terms of engineering and design, it was terrible in terms of portability. The PS3 was by a healthy margin the most powerful console of it's generation but since it wasn't in essence a low end gaming PC with a weird OS it was a pain to port to. They learned, and look at the following generation of consoles - low end gaming PCs with weird OSes and an overpowered Tegra with a weird OS.
 

CriticalGaming

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PS5 is not designed to natively run anything other than PS4 in bc, so it would need to be emulated in software. Meaning Sony would have to develop emulators. Which they very well could, they have the engineers and knowledge, and PS5 should have the horsepower. Tho that'll take time, effort, and thus money.

So question is, do they want to? Considering they wanted to close the stores, my guess is the answer is no.
They already have psp emulation working on the Vita. So why not just copy that software into the ps5 OS?
 

Chimpzy

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They already have psp emulation working on the Vita. So why not just copy that software into the ps5 OS?
Because that is not how it works.Think of it as an interpreter doing simultaneous interpretation, which requires very high proficiency with both the source language and the one you're translating into. For example, the PSP speaks German, the Vita is Farsi and the PS5 is Swahili. None of them speak anything else. You'll need a German-Farsi interpreter to let a Vita talk with PSP games. But that German-Farsi interpreter won't do you any good if you want to do the same with a PS5.

Emulation is much the same. The PSP emulator for Vita is designed to allow the specific combo of hardware and software of the Vita to understand and work with the specific instructions of the PSP and its games. Change the variables on either side and chances are the emulation won't work properly anymore, if at all. And Vita and PS5 are quite different from one another. If just plopping the software on there was all it took, Sony could just make their own fork of the pc version of open source emulator PPSSPP and call it a day. But that doesn't fly, because while a pc and PS5 are more similar to each other than a Vita and PS5, even minor differences can make for a vast divide.
 

CriticalGaming

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Because that is not how it works.Think of it as an interpreter doing simultaneous interpretation, which requires very high proficiency with both the source language and the one you're translating into. For example, the PSP speaks German, the Vita is Farsi and the PS5 is Swahili. None of them speak anything else. You'll need a German-Farsi interpreter to let a Vita talk with PSP games. But that German-Farsi interpreter won't do you any good if you want to do the same with a PS5.

Emulation is much the same. The PSP emulator for Vita is designed to allow the specific combo of hardware and software of the Vita to understand and work with the specific instructions of the PSP and its games. Change the variables on either side and chances are the emulation won't work properly anymore, if at all. And Vita and PS5 are quite different from one another. If just plopping the software on there was all it took, Sony could just make their own fork of the pc version of open source emulator PPSSPP and call it a day. But that doesn't fly, because while a pc and PS5 are more similar to each other than a Vita and PS5, even minor differences can make for a vast divide.
I still feel making a software emulator on the ps5 would be something sony could do. Might take a fresh program but since they control the original systems source code they should have any reason it is impossible.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I still feel making a software emulator on the ps5 would be something sony could do. Might take a fresh program but since they control the original systems source code they should have any reason it is impossible.
I’m no programmer but always thought source code landed on the software side of things, which means that Sony would need to have code access to not just their own library of games, but that of whichever third parties they plan to invite to the BC party as well.