Speed Runner Beats Ocarina of Time in Less Than 19 Minutes

IceForce

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Dec 11, 2012
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CriticKitten said:
What I said was "a 100% legit run" (meaning a no-cheats run), which is clearly not the same thing as saying "100% completion run". Drop the strawman, it's not going to work. Better yet, drop the conversation altogether. If your only contribution to it is going to be that really bad attempt at calling me out on "hypocrisy", then you aren't contributing to the discussion at all.
You apparently have a very strange definition of what "100%" means.

Allow me to put my point in simple terms for you to understand.

If someone is skipping content because it's optional, or because of some exploit, what does it matter? They're skipping content either way.
Both of these options lead to the game's end, so it makes no difference.

It will never be "100%", by any definition of the term.
CriticKitten said:
Yes, clearly being able to skip 90% of the game is not a competitive advantage.
CriticKitten said:
So you admit, then, that your community is in fact trying to claim that a full-exploits 90%+ content-skipped speed run is equivalent to a full, no cheats run of the game? Because people keep telling me that "no one has said that", and yet this is at least the fourth such quote of someone trying to argue that they are equivalent in just this thread alone.
Oh look, here you are complaining about people skipping 90% of the game's content.
This complaint completely falls flat when you consider a good portion of many game's content is optional anyway.

If you still fail to grasp this simple point, then I'm out and you can expect to receive no further replies from me.
 

Signa

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OH man, this thread has been a complete roller-coaster of fun to read. The awful analogies and opinions of some of the posts here are making my sides split.

Ohh! Ohh! let me make one up too!

"Speed running a game is like eating a hamburger without any cheese!"

I'll let the rest of you figure that one out.
 

deathmothon

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What if someone figured out how to glitch through the credits? Would that person have a quicker run because the credits ended quicker?
 

Madmonk12345

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deathmothon said:
What if someone figured out how to glitch through the credits? Would that person have a quicker run because the credits ended quicker?
Nope! Timing is done from start to final input in OoT, and there are no more required inputs during the credits. As a result it would have no effect on the timing.

Though, they might change the timing if such a glitch were found.
 

FPLOON

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Signa said:
OH man, this thread has been a complete roller-coaster of fun to read. The awful analogies and opinions of some of the posts here are making my sides split.

Ohh! Ohh! let me make one up too!

"Speed running a game is like eating a hamburger without any cheese!"

I'll let the rest of you figure that one out.
This.
I want to try to make an analogy as well!

*ahem*

"Speed running... is like meeting yourself in the future and stealing their job away from them!"

Damn, that was TOO easy!

OT: That was an awesome speedrun! I could never do a speedrun of anything besides Kingdom Hearts, but even then the chances of doing it flawlessly like something like that is beyond my skills at this point...

Also, isn't "following rules" technically cheating in some way, shape, or form? *snickers*
 

Alex Mac

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CriticKitten said:
The exploit in question in this run is clearly outside the bounds of OoT's core gameplay mechanics and rules.
I'll only comment once more (and only once; this conversation is beyond inane at this point) to say that this would matter if OoT had formal rules. It doesn't. Neither is the exploit outside of the bounds of the core mechanics. It is actually the mechanics that allow it to occur.

You can sit back and tell people that there is a proper way to play the game. One that is in line with the invisible and arbitrary ruleset you wish to appeal to. No one has to accept, as you seem to want them to, that this ruleset is actual, let alone something that players must adhere to. At the end of the day, all you are really doing is stomping your feet and railing away because someone didn't do something the way you want them to.
 

Roxas1359

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deathmothon said:
What if someone figured out how to glitch through the credits? Would that person have a quicker run because the credits ended quicker?
No, and it's because the rules for Speed Demos Archive have it that the clock starts counting at time from which you have complete control of the character to the time in which that control is removed and not given back. In this case you get full control of Link after the opening cutscene and you lose all control and can't speed anything after you beat Ganon. If the opening cutscene and the credits counted then you'd have to add 4 minutes and 21 seconds for the opening and another 9 minutes and 39 seconds for the final cutscene and credits. You can skip the cutscene text or make it go faster unless you're playing on an emulator (which is against the rules and invalidates the run) or if it's a copy from another region such as PAL, NTSC-J, or NTSC. Although when doing one from another region it'll put the game as being done with "x" version of the game.
 
Oct 20, 2010
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SonOfVoorhees said:
If your using glitches, might as well use a cheat code. Same thing. Im more interested in how quick a person completed it properly.
It is important to note here that In fact Cosmo himself holds or held a world record for doing it the way our camp would argue is proper. So regardless of the Semantics, (which SirBryghtblade pointed out were in fact firmly nailed down)
the funny thing is that the SAME person still gets to make the claim.
 
Oct 20, 2010
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General Winter said:
I think the wrong questions are being asked in this discussion.

First, answers to some of the questions that have already been brought up for posterity.

Did Cosmo really beat the game?
Not really. He didn't do it "legally". It doesn't really matter though.

Is the speedrun Cosmo did legitimate?
Yes

Does Any% speedrun take skill?
Definitely.

But, the question that I think deserves discussion here is which type of speedrun do you believe is the most legitimate?
Any% gets done the fastest, but other ways do it more legitimately, for lack of a better word. Which of the speedruns do you believe is the bigger achievement?
Thank you for helping to keep on topic! People switch the nature of the discuission every other post it feels like!
I would say that ALL speedrun categories are equally legitimate, as they are an agreed upon form of competition amongst a community. As has been pointed out, it's actually REALLY hard to do what was done in the video.

It is also important to remember that much of the confusion here is because of an article that is not very informative, and somewhat misleading, not because people want to shit on speedrunning.
 

Lunar Templar

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while I get there's a category for speeds runs like this, I don't care ^^ skipping content via glitches, and like 90% of the game at that, is not really a testament of skill to me. All it shows is that head can read a page about glitches far as I'm concerned
 

ThisNickname

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On the contrary, I think it's a true testament to his skill to see just how easy he makes this stuff look. I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned that he seemed bored while playing. That's most likely because he's done this exact run thousands of times, over and over, to eke out every last pixel of perfection, and he still isn't done.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, it was Cosmo who put in the work to discover exactly how much time difference the various language versions and game systems had. So, there's that, at the very least. =)
 

Raioken18

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Uhhh... everyone saying it doesn't take skill to use those glitches... try it. It's insanely difficult. Plus there are different categories for glitchless, so it's not hurting anyone playing legitimately.

Like his movements were almost perfect (he stuffed up the waterfall run something fierce, and Gohma), but to do it that well and to that degree is very impressive.
 

Spearmaster

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I am just curious, if exploiting/breaking code in a game to skip the majority of it is not cheating then what is? If someone found a glitch that skipped from the title screen to the end cinematic without actually doing anything in the game is this also considered "beating the game"? Killing the end boss is not the whole of the game, in this case its just the last part of the whole. It is impressive but he killed Gannon in under 19min he did not beat "the game" in under 19min because he did not play "the game" just part of it.

Glitch runs are just that "glitch runs" not "beating the game" that's why they have their own category.

Capcha: slippery slope... Yes indeed it is capcha, indeed it is.
 

Roxas1359

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Doomer08 said:
As long as your having fun playing a game, what else matters?
My good man, don't bring good, sound logic into this. This is the internet, which means one must be wrong and the other must be right with opinions also being declared as fact. XP
 

Techno Squidgy

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008Zulu said:
Revnak said:
SirBryghtside said:
Neronium said:
cookyt said:
He is obviously playing the game outside of the intended spirit of it. But maybe you are all right. While we are at it, lets give back the medals to everyone who ever juiced at the Olympics.

Exploiting bugs/glitches is cheating. If he wants to set a legitimate record, have him go through the game properly.
CriticKitten said:
008Zulu said:
I don't recognize his achievement. Exploiting glitches to beat a game should invalidate the entire effort.
I'm gonna disagree with the massive panel of people bashing this post and say that you're absolutely right, and they're not.

It's not a legit run if the guy has to cheat to finish it. Period. Don't really care how people want to defend it, they don't call them "exploits" because they're so hardcore MLG legit, dawgs. They call them "exploits" because they abuse broken mechanics in the game to win, i.e., they cheat and violate the spirit of the game.
You know there's a category for speedruns where you don't use any glitches at all, right?
This isn't one of those, this is a speedrun where the goal is to get from the first moment you have control to the last moment you have control in the absolute shortest time possible within the limitations of the game, no external tools. It takes an incredible amount of dedication, you have to know how and where to break the game, you have to take the optimal path whenever you move anywhere and you have to be incredibly focussed to do it all right. It's bloody impressive.

Now, regarding your Olympics analogy, lets make it a better analogy. In this version of the olympics, you'd have 3 versions of the 100m sprint. You'd have natural humans, chemically enhanced, and cyborgs. This guy just won the chemically enhanced version (and got the world record), while others hold the records for natural and cyborgs.

But a better question. How does the way he chooses to play the game affect you in any way at all, or anyone else for that matter? The only people who will be affected by this run, is the guy that held the previous record for an any% speedrun of OoT.
 

Roxas1359

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CriticKitten said:
Neronium said:
Doomer08 said:
As long as your having fun playing a game, what else matters?
My good man, don't bring good, sound logic into this. This is the internet, which means one must be wrong and the other must be right with opinions also being declared as fact. XP
Except that this discussion has never been a question of "fun", but rather what constitutes "beating the game". And that discussion does have a right and a wrong answer. So yeah.

If he has fun playing the game this way, that's fine. He's still not "beating the game".
It does? Strange seeing as there are many interpretations of what constitutes "beating a game" and it is an argument of semantics at this point. I consider it that he beat the game, as he beat the final boss and got to the credits. You consider that he didn't and have been arguing all through this thread that all those who believe he beat the game are wrong. Well I think you need to remember that these speed runs, and games in general, are for fun and have no right or wrong way to play them in the end. If they did, then everyone one would experience the same things the exact way same way whenever anyone plays a game, and that doesn't happen. There are unique experiences that everyone has in a game.

Now reply to this and say how I'm wrong, I don't care. Because in the end Cosmos did something amazing that took a lot of work to do and whether he "beat the game" or not is just an argument of semantics. Honestly I'm just reminded of this comic at this point when it comes to this thread: