Spider-Man 2 - Does whatever a spider can do

immortalfrieza

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I just got through what I assume to be the entirety of Peter's symbiote phase, and I can't say it was too riviting. It really just goes through the motions without any real controversy; Peter gets the suit, initially appreciates the new power it gives him, then it goes to his head, his friends warn him that it might be dangerous and that he's changing for the worse, then he resents them for it, feeding his growing rage, it all comes to a head and he finally realizes he should be rid of it.

I guess considering the developers can't stray too far from the source material without losing the arc fans want to see I shouldn't be too surprised, but the way it's implemented within the game/story structure it just plays it far too safe. You'd think an unhinged Peter who's no longer interested in being the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man would result in some actual moments within the gameplay that emphasize this, but beyond louder, cracking punches and Peter talking scarier during combat you're really just doing the same thing you were already doing.

Instead of doing the regular missions and crime-stopping, but with more 'grrrr', it would've been interesting if the nature of your missions and the crimes got warped to reflect Peter's shift in morality. Instead of simply stopping a speeding vehicle, you'd grab it and chuck it into the river, for example. I was totally expecting Peter to maybe pay J.Jonah Jameson a visit and take him on a scare web swinging trip. That totally could've been a good mission, showing Peter indulging in something he might've imagined but never would've actually done, until now.

It's not willing to really cross the line with Peter and hurt the audience, so the whole arc just comes across as very cooky-cutter.
The issue is the 90s Spider-Man animated series. That series established the Symbiote as a corrupting influence. Which has been used as a blatant metaphor for drug addiction and has colored all depictions of the same arc since. The comics ran with this because the reason that Peter originally got rid of the Venom Symbiote, because it would go out and fight crime while he was asleep and Peter was exhausted as a result, just made Peter look like an asshole and made it's grudge against Peter look a lot more justified.

I liked the original way the Venom Symbiote was depicted because for one, it made Peter look less squeaky clean, and for allowed for the Symbiotes as a whole to have more potential for depth as characters. After the 90s animated show however, the Venom Symbiote in particular has almost always been portrayed as just evil incarnate and has zero depth as a result.

One of the reasons I liked the Venom movies was that it presented the Symbiote as an actual character. Twisted in it's own way, but not irredeemable, which I had hoped would reverse the trend in Spider-Man stories and at least give the thing a better reason for it's evil actions than "I'm evil because I'm eeeeeevvviiiillll!"
 
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The issue is the 90s Spider-Man animated series. That series established the Symbiote as a corrupting influence. Which has been used as a blatant metaphor for drug addiction and has colored all depictions of the same arc since.
Regardless of the change, still my favorite version of Venom.

The comics ran with this because the reason that Peter originally got rid of the Venom Symbiote, because it would go out and fight crime while he was asleep and Peter was exhausted as a result, just made Peter look like an asshole and made it's grudge against Peter look a lot more justified.
While slightly a gray area, I couldn't blame Peter for trying to get rid of it. I wouldn't want something take me out at night with little choice in the matter and fight crime when I've already fought crime that same day, evening, or night. Superpowers or not, the body can only take so much before it gets tired.

One of the reasons I liked the Venom movies was that it presented the Symbiote as an actual character. Twisted in it's own way, but not irredeemable, which I had hoped would reverse the trend in Spider-Man stories and at least give the thing a better reason for it's evil actions than "I'm evil because I'm eeeeeevvviiiillll!"
Agreed. I remember there were and are critics that still complain that Venom became a "generic tough guy" with "no personality" in both of his solo movies. Did these dumb asses even watch the same movie?
 
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sXeth

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While slightly a gray area, I couldn't blame Peter for trying to get rid of it. I wouldn't want something take me out at night with little choice in the matter and fight crime when I've already fought crime that same day, evening, or night. Superpowers or not, the body can only take so much before it gets tired.


Agreed. I remember there were and are critics that still complain that Venom became a "generic tough guy" with "no personality" in both of his solo movies. Did these dumb asses even watch the same movie?
It kind of more fell into that it was trying to be helpful (like a partner or sidekick) but it had to have a host body (at the time) so he got pulled along with it. Then Peter found it was alive and was all "ick get it off", tbf the symbiote did sneak back onto him covertly after that again and then the bell tower bit happens, but the symbiote actually seems to grow from the experience, saves him, and leaves him alone (until Eddie finds it and corrupts with his rage mongering).

Granted, Peter and Reed Richards didn't have a reliable way to communicate with it, but they didn't really put much effort into what was evidently something that had some level of sentience either.

Venom in the Venom movies is probably closer to the original Peter Parker arc in a lot of ways then it is to the actual Venom/Eddie characters, all in all.
 

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It kind of more fell into that it was trying to be helpful (like a partner or sidekick) but it had to have a host body (at the time) so he got pulled along with it. Then Peter found it was alive and was all "ick get it off", tbf the symbiote did sneak back onto him covertly after that again and then the bell tower bit happens, but the symbiote actually seems to grow from the experience, saves him, and leaves him alone (until Eddie finds it and corrupts with his rage mongering).

Granted, Peter and Reed Richards didn't have a reliable way to communicate with it, but they didn't really put much effort into what was evidently something that had some level of sentience either.

Venom in the Venom movies is probably closer to the original Peter Parker arc in a lot of ways then it is to the actual Venom/Eddie characters, all in all.
Well, that was Peter’s mistake. He went to Reed Richards. That man would overthink making a pot of coffee and end up doing something stupid when he made it. Should probably have gone to the X-Men.
 
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It kind of more fell into that it was trying to be helpful (like a partner or sidekick) but it had to have a host body (at the time) so he got pulled along with it. Then Peter found it was alive and was all "ick get it off", tbf the symbiote did sneak back onto him covertly after that again and then the bell tower bit happens, but the symbiote actually seems to grow from the experience, saves him, and leaves him alone (until Eddie finds it and corrupts with his rage mongering).

Granted, Peter and Reed Richards didn't have a reliable way to communicate with it, but they didn't really put much effort into what was evidently something that had some level of sentience either.
Good to know.

Venom in the Venom movies is probably closer to the original Peter Parker arc in a lot of ways then it is to the actual Venom/Eddie characters, all in all.
Ironic, because negative Ned/Nancy critics felt the opposite or said the movies weren't accurate enough to the comics. Which goes to show how little they actually know or think they know, but don't.
 

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Well, that was Peter’s mistake. He went to Reed Richards. That man would overthink making a pot of coffee and end up doing something stupid when he made it.
The 90s Animated Series solved that issue with Peter going to Dr. Connors instead. Connors warned Pete the dangers of the suit at least.

Should probably have gone to the X-Men.
I don't know the original comic book continuity of the time, but I highly doubt Peter had them on speed dial. Though you, @sXeth, and @immortalfrieza, know more than me when it comes to this stuff. Feel free add anything I'm possibly missing.
 

sXeth

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Good to know.


Ironic, because negative Ned/Nancy critics felt the opposite or said the movies weren't accurate enough to the comics. Which goes to show how little they actually know or think they know, but don't.
I mean, for Eddie Brock/Venom it is definitely skipping a bunch of pre-Venom backstory and Eddie's effectively a completely different pre-Venom person. And it basically skips his whole villain arc to get to the anti-hero phase.

The fact that it relatively aligns with OG Black Suit Peter just kind of exposes the transparent attempt of them trying to boot up the Spider Man universe without using Spiderman and how silly that seems.

(I don't mind either one really, but I've never been madcap to comic canon, because I know enough comic canon to know how ludicrous/impossible that would actually be)
 
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Dreiko

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So I've been seeing footage and this game seems pretty cool. How in touch with the recent stuff do you need to be to get the plot? Cause I've not followed it at all for decades, since that one good cartoon from the 90s. Is it just rehashing classics? Cause in one of the trailers it seemed like Craven was being talked about as if they didn't know of him. Is this like a different timeline where they haven't met him yet? Cause he's one of my fav villains as a dinosaur-loving kid haha.


Also why are they two spidermen? Is one of them the symbiote kinda becoming its own version of him like Carnage or something, but good this time?
 

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So I've been seeing footage and this game seems pretty cool. How in touch with the recent stuff do you need to be to get the plot? Cause I've not followed it at all for decades, since that one good cartoon from the 90s. Is it just rehashing classics? Cause in one of the trailers it seemed like Craven was being talked about as if they didn't know of him. Is this like a different timeline where they haven't met him yet? Cause he's one of my fav villains as a dinosaur-loving kid haha.
Marvel's Spider-Man (2018) takes place in its own continuity. It has nothing to do with the 90s cartoons nor any other cartoon adaption. MSPDM does briefly show up in Across The Spider-Verse (2023) though.

Also why are they two spidermen? Is one of them the symbiote kinda becoming its own version of him like Carnage or something, but good this time?
  1. The second Spider-Man is Miles Morales. He gets his Spider powers at the end of the first game. You will also have to play some of the game's DLC to understand some of the side characters that show up in Spider-Man 2 (2023).
  2. Play Miles Morales, so you can see his story. It takes place after the first game, but before the second game.
  3. No. Peter gets the Symbiote Suit for a while in the story. Then it goes to Harry Osborn instead of Eddie Brock this time. Miles never gets the Venom suit, and Carnage doesn't show up yet (as far as I know). Miles never wears the Symbiote Suit.
 

Dreiko

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Marvel's Spider-Man (2018) takes place in its own continuity. It has nothing to do with the 90s cartoons nor any other cartoon adaption. MSPDM does briefly show up in Across The Spider-Verse (2023) though.



  1. The second Spider-Man is Miles Morales. He gets his Spider powers at the end of the first game. You will also have to play some of the game's DLC to understand some of the side characters that show up in Spider-Man 2 (2023).
  2. Play Miles Morales, so you can see his story. It takes place after the first game, but before the second game.
  3. No. Peter gets the Symbiote Suit for a while in the story. Then it goes to Harry Osborn instead of Eddie Brock this time. Miles never gets the Venom suit, and Carnage doesn't show up yet (as far as I know). Miles never wears the Symbiote Suit.
Ahh I see I see, thanks! I guess I might as well play the first game too then since they are so connected. This sounds like a good jumping in point for people like me who haven't followed the IP in forever.


Also I like how they sidestep the lame sidekick trope by having the new bro also be Spiderman too. No Robin lameness here haha.
 

Gordon_4

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Ahh I see I see, thanks! I guess I might as well play the first game too then since they are so connected. This sounds like a good jumping in point for people like me who haven't followed the IP in forever.


Also I like how they sidestep the lame sidekick trope by having the new bro also be Spiderman too. No Robin lameness here haha.
Robin isn’t lame, you’re lame :p
 
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Dreiko

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Robin isn’t lame, you’re lame :p
Nah the only things I liked him in were ones that had him as a main char in the Teen Titans cartoon or when he was Nightwing or something. Whenever you stick him next to batman he's instantly the little bro.
 

Gordon_4

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Nah the only things I liked him in were ones that had him as a main char in the Teen Titans cartoon or when he was Nightwing or something. Whenever you stick him next to batman he's instantly the little bro.
I find it depends. Dick Grayson will probably be always known as Robin in pop culture, but I feel confident that among comic and animation aficionados he's better liked as Nightwing. Jason Todd has a complicated fandom and history from what I understand. I'm pretty sure both Tim Drake and Stephanie Brown were both popular as Robins, but have either moved on or been retired.

To my knowledge, the current Robin - Damian Wayne - works really great because he's actually Bruce's son with Talia al Ghul. And he is an arrogant little sprog, cos he was raised by Talia and Ras in the League of Assassins and trained since birth. So he can back up like 90% of his bluster.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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However, the way this ends up in practice means you're no longer really thinking what abilities to use during combat, and instead just unleashing whatever ability is available. Same with the gadgets which function similarly, and are now as easy to access during combat as your abilties. Enemies are also susceptible to pretty much every ability and gadget you have, without any being more vulnerable to certain abilities are gadgets, so it really doesn't matter - just press the button to the corresponding ability or gadget available and enemies will get hurt. It also means that once you've used an ability then that's it - you have to wait for that ability to recharge. You can no longer pit out of a universal energy pool to fuel your abilties and decide which one to use based on the focus you have available. The decision making during combat is partially removed, with your abilties relegated to 'can you use it, then use it'.
Ok cool I was thinking about this exact thing because I actually did not remember the details of the previous two games to this degree. I mean I just remember it's basically the same Arkham style counter everything against 100 dudes but I don't remember if I was being more strategic about the abilities. But yeah I do find myself just smashing L1 or R1 and face buttons and hoping stuff happens that lets me win. Since the animations and responsiveness are so smooth and everything looks cool I'm enjoying it. But honestly I'm not hear for some deep combat mechanics, I'm here for the spectacle and power fantasy and it's delivering on that. But I can see that it could have been a bit more involved and they probably made decisions that focus on accessibility over richness.

Anyway I played a bunch more and I'm well into the second half of the story I think, and I already did all of the side stuff available which is most of it according to the map so I'll be wrapping up this weekend. Some thoughts:

- Mary Jane looks fine. The internet needs to shut the f*** up, it's so hilariously and pathetically cringe. It really is like "ew you like GIRLS you're teh ghey" type of attitude coming off.

- I like the Mary Jane missions. It's like little Last of Us sections. Oh wait, I forgot it's cool to hate that game too (or not, I can't keep track of which backlash cycles we're in with all this stuff). I just did a big main story sequence that had me switching between Peter, Miles and MJ and it was exhilarating. It was like, what if the Avengers were actual human beings (or maybe what Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was going for), this whole idea of a Spider Team.

Because here's how I see it- when you have a game like this that is intended for mass appeal and straight-forward mechanics and power fantasy, you can either just have the game be the same stuff the whole time or throw in some simple different things to change things up. It's obvious that the minigame puzzles and MJ sequences are there just to break up the monotony of "swing to place, watch cut scene, fight some dudes." And I'd rather have the variety than the monotony.

- Black suit Spiderman fight animations are just the best. So deliciously squishy. Before I got up to the black suit I was genuinely enjoying the Miles stuff more because I just think as a younger character who I'm less familiar with (because I stopped paying attention to comic book stuff before he was introduced) he offers more discovery for me. But then I got the black suit and it's like, hey, everybody else shut up, lemme tentacle punch everything. So cool.
 
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Ok cool I was thinking about this exact thing because I actually did not remember the details of the previous two games to this degree. I mean I just remember it's basically the same Arkham style counter everything against 100 dudes but I don't remember if I was being more strategic about the abilities. But yeah I do find myself just smashing L1 or R1 and face buttons and hoping stuff happens that lets me win. Since the animations and responsiveness are so smooth and everything looks cool I'm enjoying it. But honestly I'm not hear for some deep combat mechanics, I'm here for the spectacle and power fantasy and it's delivering on that. But I can see that it could have been a bit more involved and they probably made decisions that focus on accessibility over richness.
The problem (for me anyway) is that you never really enter that flow like you did in the previous games (or the Arkham games), because your attention is always partially focused on whether the Ability or Gadget icons are lit up.