SquareEnix ditch IO Interactive after "extrodinary loss"=

Here Comes Tomorrow

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So according to this:
http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/20170511_01en.pdf

Hitman 2017 lost SE 4898 million yen. Which according to Google is a loss of about 4.2 million Americabux. As such, Squenix has decided to cut IO loose.

So is Hitman dead now? Season 2 never? How much of it is Square Enix's fault for that idiotic episodic release? How long before a disgruntled IO employee spills the beans?
 

Saelune

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I hope they land on their feet, and make a new Hitman game that is actually finished, so I can buy it...finished. None of this piecemeal bullshit.

Personally, this is good news to me.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Here Comes Tomorrow said:
How much of it is Square Enix's fault for that idiotic episodic release?
Absolutely all of it. Hitman would have sold well if they treated it with the kind of respect that it deserves. Not only did they fuck up by making it into an episodic game, they also made it online only. And until they remove the always online component from it completely I'm not going to buy it. And I'm not the only one.

This was so obvious. Most gamers knew that turning a beloved franchise into an episodic game was a bad idea. Most critics knew. Makes you wonder what kind of incompetent people are running that company.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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I really feel Absolution was the bigger mistake on Square Enix's part, most of the levels didn't even have "hits" and were poorly designed Point A to B stealth levels. I really doubt Absolution was where IO wanted to take the series. Absolution probably accomplished losing actual Hitman fans while not gaining any new ones either. Whereas the new Hitman is what Hitman is supposed to be, at least from what I've seen on it because I haven't gotten around to playing it myself. The episodic nature actually makes sense for Hitman as argued by Super Bunnyhop in his review, the levels are in themselves pretty separate from each other and they are made to be played at least a few times through. Sure, the online BS was totally Square and a mistake no doubt.
 

Saelune

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Phoenixmgs said:
I really feel Absolution was the bigger mistake on Square Enix's part, most of the levels didn't even have "hits" and were poorly designed Point A to B stealth levels. I really doubt Absolution was where IO wanted to take the series. Absolution probably accomplished losing actual Hitman fans while not gaining any new ones either. Whereas the new Hitman is what Hitman is supposed to be, at least from what I've seen on it because I haven't gotten around to playing it myself. The episodic nature actually makes sense for Hitman as argued by Super Bunnyhop in his review, the levels are in themselves pretty separate from each other and they are made to be played at least a few times through. Sure, the online BS was totally Square and a mistake no doubt.
I think Absolution was all IO's failings. But...when the latest Hitman game was announced, they basically flat out said the linear level design was well, shit, and that the next installment would be more like Blood Money. It seems they delivered on that, but the episodic thing is stupid, and very obviously Square's doing.

I have not and will not buy it because of it. And I was so looking forward to it initially too...
 

B-Cell_v1legacy

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Hitman is second best game of this gen after Doom. i hope someone other than square enix will get Hitman.
 

stroopwafel

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Hitman was never a blockbuster title so maybe Squeenix expectations were just a little too high. I played all the games(except the first one) and Hitman 2016 was a definite return to form. The kind of game that don't get made anymore. I enjoyed Absolution but this leaned more towards a stealth-shooter style rather than the meticulous, clockwork planning of classic Hitman.

Regardless of what you think of the game it's just not a really good sign when companies are giving any title that sells below 5 million copies the axe. Like EA and Activision that only regurgitate the same crap over and over. But anyways first Deus ex and now Hitman. *sigh*
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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stroopwafel said:
Hitman was never a blockbuster title so maybe Squeenix expectations were just a little too high.
Yes, but this game didn't even turn a profit. They have the right to expect a return on their investment. If this game was such a loss for them despite the fact that Hitman has received very positive reviews from both critics and players, that means that there was something wrong from the start. The fault cannot possibly lie with the developer.

Square-Enix usually expects more than is realistically possible. A LOT MORE. I see that you remember that they were disappointed when Tomb Raider reboot sold only 3.4 million copies instead of their 5 million expectation. How the fuck did they expect to sell 5 million copies? Even gamers that aren't in their line of work know how difficult that is. They don't understand basic numbers. 3.4 million copies for a reboot of an old series is AMAZING.

And they're not even satisfied when they make money. It's not just profit that they're after. It's unrealistic and unattainable levels of profit. They did the same thing with Sleeping Dogs and Deus Ex Mankind Divided. They simply have no idea how to sell games. I'm amazed at their continued existence to be honest.
 

pookie101

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Adam Jensen said:
stroopwafel said:
Hitman was never a blockbuster title so maybe Squeenix expectations were just a little too high.
Yes, but this game didn't even turn a profit. They have the right to expect a return on their investment. If this game was such a loss for them despite the fact that Hitman has received very positive reviews from both critics and players, that means that there was something wrong from the start. The fault cannot possibly lie with the developer.

Square-Enix usually expects more than is realistically possible. A LOT MORE. I see that you remember that they were disappointed when Tomb Raider reboot sold only 3.4 million copies instead of their 5 million expectation. How the fuck did they expect to sell 5 million copies? Even gamers that aren't in their line of work know how difficult that is. They don't understand basic numbers. 3.4 million copies for a reboot of an old series is AMAZING.

And they're not even satisfied when they make money. It's not just profit that they're after. It's unrealistic and unattainable levels of profit. They did the same thing with Sleeping Dogs and Deus Ex Mankind Divided. They simply have no idea how to sell games. I'm amazed at their continued existence to be honest.
ironically they sheepishly admitted 2 years later tomb raider had sold 8.5M and was the best selling game in the franchise.. they just werent willing to wait
 

stroopwafel

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Adam Jensen said:
And they're not even satisfied when they make money. It's not just profit that they're after. It's unrealistic and unattainable levels of profit. They did the same thing with Sleeping Dogs and Deus Ex Mankind Divided. They simply have no idea how to sell games. I'm amazed at their continued existence to be honest.
Yeah, yet they funded, co-developed and published Nier Automata knowing full well it's going to be a niche title with modest sales figures(that they were actually happy with). Maybe Squeenix has different metrics for it's international publishing branche but it still doesn't make much sense. Also you can't help but wonder why they sabotage their own titles by either putting microtransactions in them(like MD) or releasing them episodically with mandatory online. For me it didn't detract from enjoying an otherwise great game but I don't think it did cumulative sales any favors(of which no reliable numbers can be found).

Tomb Raider seems to be the only international title they still have an interest in. They pretty much eliminated any other IP from Eidos and now they also try to sell off IO Interactive. To be honest I think it's just going to be Tomb Raider, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy and mobile games from here on out.
 

Benpasko

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It's a shame that they went episodic with Hitman, I'd really be interested to know what kind of sales episodic hits get compared to normal AAA releases. Has ANY episodic game ever sold 3 million copies or whatever Squeenix's unrealistic goal was?
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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I remember reading the main reason they did episodic release is because they weren't doing well, and that Hitman wouldn't have even been released at all if they had to finish the full game up front. Wonder how much differently it would've really sold though if they bit the bullet and went all in.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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The episodic nature was totally fine for Hitman because each level is huge, replayable and completely self-contained. Based on this thread it's a very unpopular way to release a AAA game though and we all know online-only functionality in single player games is deeply unpopular amongst the core gaming demographic. I'd probably have bought each episode as it came out if it weren't for that. The same thing stopped me from buying Steep on sale. The fucking servers were down for the free weekend in that case I mean, I know that's Ubisoft but fucking hell.

But yeah, it's a real shame. The new Hitman was one of the series' best :( Fingers crossed the devs all get new and better jobs.
 

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Adam Jensen said:
Here Comes Tomorrow said:
How much of it is Square Enix's fault for that idiotic episodic release?
Absolutely all of it. Hitman would have sold well if they treated it with the kind of respect that it deserves. Not only did they fuck up by making it into an episodic game, they also made it online only. And until they remove the always online component from it completely I'm not going to buy it. And I'm not the only one.

This was so obvious. Most gamers knew that turning a beloved franchise into an episodic game was a bad idea. Most critics knew. Makes you wonder what kind of incompetent people are running that company.
What makes even less sense is that Hitman 2017 is a single-player game; there was no reason to do online online. Squeenix have no one to blame, but themselves. It's like when Eidos fired CORE for TB: Angel of Darkness, when it was the former's fault for not giving a full year to develop a game. These publishers really don't want to take responsibility for their own mishaps. When will these companies learn that not everybody has great or no internet at all?
 

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stroopwafel said:
Tomb Raider seems to be the only international title they still have an interest in. They pretty much eliminated any other IP from Eidos and now they also try to sell off IO Interactive. To be honest I think it's just going to be Tomb Raider, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy and mobile games from here on out.
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Then again, aside from Nier: Automata, I have not touched anything from them since FF:XIII......

I miss Parasite Eve so much. Thanks for killing off a franchise and adding a bunch of plot twists nobody wanted, while selling it on a dead portable console.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Saelune said:
I think Absolution was all IO's failings. But...when the latest Hitman game was announced, they basically flat out said the linear level design was well, shit, and that the next installment would be more like Blood Money. It seems they delivered on that, but the episodic thing is stupid, and very obviously Square's doing.

I have not and will not buy it because of it. And I was so looking forward to it initially too...
I'm not sure where the structural idea came from with Absolution. Square obviously wanted Hitman to become a bigger franchise so maybe that influenced IO to go bad places with the series or maybe IO came to Square with the idea. The game opened decently strong with the transitional levels but their quality petered quite quickly. And, oh god, that disguise system was the worst, that was all IO there for sure, I don't know how they thought it was a good idea.
 

Shadow-Phoenix

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Selling Hitman in pieces and any other game through the same model, probably wasn't the best idea. I know I didn't buy the new Hitman because they chose that model.
 

pookie101

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i was reading on another site season 2 is half done and should be released regardless
 

Zhukov

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I didn't see anything wrong the episodic format. I don't know if it was a good business decision but it didn't make the game any worse.

The always-online is shit though. I wouldn't have bought it if I had known it was in there.
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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Zhukov said:
I didn't see anything wrong the episodic format. I don't know if it was a good business decision but it didn't make the game any worse.

The always-online is shit though. I wouldn't have bought it if I had known it was in there.
You can add me to another in the list of people that didn't buy it due to the episodic thing. I was waiting for everything to be released and the game to be done before buying it because I wouldn't bother playing any additional content because I'd be tired of the game by then.

I've still never finished the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim. Barely even left the first area.