Star Citizen Hits $49 Million, Still Needs Crowdfunding Support

Fanghawk

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Star Citizen Hits $49 Million, Still Needs Crowdfunding Support

Star Citizen is just shy of $50 million, but needs additional funds to "sustain this level of development".

Star Citizen is the question of exactly how much money the project needs is a common one. Upon reaching the $49 million mark, Chris Roberts addressed the issue by stating that crowdfunding is essential to Star Citizen's continued development.

"We've had a lot of questions about why we still need to continue crowd funding," Roberts writes. "The answer is that that money is letting Star Citizen tackle longer term features and content sooner than we normally would. To sustain this level of development, we need to keep bringing in additional funds."

To Roberts' credit, Star Citizen's production values are incredibly expensive, <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125488-Star-Citizens-Spaceships-Are-Ridiculously-Expensive>reaching as high as $150,000 per ship. On the other hand, <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/130613-Star-Citizen-Dogfighting-Module-Delayed-to-Early-2014>Star Citizen has already seen delays despite its crowdfunding model, and continued timeliness is far from guaranteed.

Regardless, Roberts' plan is to scale Star Citizen's development team based on crowdfunding, assigning resources to key areas as necessary. "If we need more artists to produce additional ships, we'd like to be able to hire them," he explains. "Or if we need more engineers to get a head start on some longer term technical issue before it blocks other parts of development, we want that option! It's the new players hearing about Star Citizen and Arena Commander for the first time and jumping in as well as sales like the M50 that enable us to continue to chase our shared dream of the BDSSE to the highest fidelity. So thank you for your support."

On that note, Roberts announced that instead of offering new in-game stretch goals, Star Citizen will give donors control over its production schedule. Leading up to the $51 million mark, backers are able to vote on upcoming features that would be given top priority. The current list of features is as follows:

Orgs Drop 2 - Divisions, jobs and the 3D Organizations browser.Orgs Drop 3 - Private forums for each Star Citizen Organization.Galactapedia - Your guide to the Star Citizen universe which ties directly into Star Citizen's persistent universe.Web Scoreboards - Want to see your Arena Commander history on the website, or find out how you stack up against other Citizens?Known Universe Map - An interactive map of Star Citizen's known universe which will expand along with the game.

As of writing, the Known Universe Map is currently in the lead with 54% of the vote.

Source: <a href=https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14055-Letter-From-The-Chairman>Roberts Space Industries

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synobal

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Every time I see a story about Star Citizens crowd funding scheme the song "money for nothing" pops into my head and I google it and enjoy a few minutes listening to a good song. So good job star citizen.
 

Jadak

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For a game launched by a kickstarter originally asking for $500,000... What in the fuck.

I'm still looking forward to the hypothetical game that may one day exist, but damn if this isn't the worst case of scope creep and 'make it up as we go' project management I've ever seen.

It's funny really, the more money this game gets the less hope I seem to have of it ending up as anything more than pretty.
 

Slash2x

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If you have not played the Arena Commander module then I could understand why you would ask why they are taking so much money. The point is they could have been done already. They keep adding more on to the game before it comes out. They are not doing what Elite Dangerous did and just put the Alpha and Beta games out before they add all the content in. The final game is supposed to be HUGE. The irony is that the more money invested the longer the game takes.......
 

Exterminas

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At this point I would be surprised if this turned out to be anything else than a complete disappointment. Just based on the fact that they seem to be expanding the game instead of finishing it.
 

Xan Krieger

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If more money equals faster development then what is Valve doing with Half-life 3, giving them a penny a day? All jokes aside it's amazing what this has become, the more money you give them the more they want to add, the more they want to add the more money they need so it's an endless cycle. At what point will the developer feel that it's enough and any other stuff they want to add can be dlc or expansion packs? Funny this is making me pro-DLC but it seems it's the only way to get it released within our lifetimes.
 

Tortilla the Hun

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I'm convinced that at some point they'll release a statement that will simply be "STOP GIVING US MONEY, WE'VE GOT TOO MUCH" along with a notice that each copy of the game now comes with a stack of dollar bills.
 

Bke

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It sounds like they seriously don't know how to manage their time and organize their development schedule. Usually you want the base game done; have the core experience hashed out as soon as possible with the fiddly extras done later (to put it in very simple terms) that way if there is a sudden need to release its not like to lose any of that core experience. From what I've seen they've still to finish the persistent world which is meant to be the main feature in which the ships will interact... cause MMO.

This just screams of poor design process, plain and simple.
 

Kyr Knightbane

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Really? These people need MORE Money?

The game originally started as a $500,000 Kickstarter.

Now they need MORE MONEY? How about this, how about they stop wasting money on stupid Web Connectivity features and stupid social media nonsense and focus on... gee I dunno.... THE GAME


50 Mil.... Yeah i'm already starting to hate this game.


Seeing as how they already dedicated 150k per in game ship model, they need to hire new modelers. It shouldn't cost that much for a game to render an asset.

Plus what the hell happened to the last update? Where things were going so well they SKIPPED A DEVELOPMENT MODULE?!

What is wrong with people. When things are going good, you push forward, not apply the fucking brakes. If everyone did that, the Indy 500 would last 20 years.

"Oooops, i'm in first, better stop and calm down"

EDIT: Apparently I'm wrong and games cost money. Who knew?
 

Jadak

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Slash2x said:
If you have not played the Arena Commander module then I could understand why you would ask why they are taking so much money. The point is they could have been done already. They keep adding more on to the game before it comes out. They are not doing what Elite Dangerous did and just put the Alpha and Beta games out before they add all the content in. The final game is supposed to be HUGE. The irony is that the more money invested the longer the game takes.......
And that's the problem. It's great from a "hey, that should make for a good game" perspective, but ass backwards from a practical project management standpoint. You set your goals, you complete them, then you expand.

Continually expanding a project without ever completing any one thing is quite often the number one thing people will advise you not do do. It takes longer, it costs more, and you lose the ability to intelligently plan, hence taking forever and costing a fuckton of money.
 

Ishigami

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From my POV this ongoing crowdfunding campaign is simply sketchy.
If I recall it right CR estimated something between 30 and 40 million to realize everything he envision for SC. Now we are close to 50 million and it is still going and of course every penny still counts towards? something?
This is a PC only game and a space sim on top of that so sales probably wouldn?t be that great.
My random guess of the day is that the money collected with crowdfunding greatly surpasses the potential income by regular sales in a normal business model. This thing has become very profitable before it even launched.

Arena Commander for me was a rather sobering experience. Lucky for me with a digital scout pack I?m only in with the lowest pledge that includes a full release version. So if it crashes and burns I won?t be to heart broken.
 

RoonMian

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Kyr Knightbane said:
Really? These people need MORE Money?

The game originally started as a $500,000 Kickstarter.

Now they need MORE MONEY? How about this, how about they stop wasting money on stupid Web Connectivity features and stupid social media nonsense and focus on... gee I dunno.... THE GAME


50 Mil.... Yeah i'm already starting to hate this game.


Seeing as how they already dedicated 150k per in game ship model, they need to hire new modelers. It shouldn't cost that much for a game to render an asset.

Plus what the hell happened to the last update? Where things were going so well they SKIPPED A DEVELOPMENT MODULE?!

What is wrong with people. When things are going good, you push forward, not apply the fucking brakes. If everyone did that, the Indy 500 would last 20 years.

"Oooops, i'm in first, better stop and calm down"
Actually it started as a two million crowdfunder outside of kickstarter to prove to investors having another 10 to 15 millions ready that there is a willing audience.

For the stuff they originally wanted in the game over time they needed all in all about 22 millions. With what they got now they did lots of things (for example established their own mocap studio) and expanded the scope which also requires a bit more time.

And also, have you any idea how detailed and elaborate each individual ship is? My personal profession is automotive engineering, I have an inkling on what development of an actual car costs. Taking away obvious stuff from that real design process since the ships are not real and all but at the same time knowing how elaborate the ships in SC are 150k sound about right to me.
 

Brian Tams

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I'm assuming that the company coke buckets have run dry again, and need to be refilled.

Seriously, at some point they have to competent enough to say "Enough is enough" and stick with a single vision. At this point the game is going to risk spiraling out of control and turning into a mess.
 

William Fleming

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If we give you more money, do promise not to throw it at more stuff your game honestly does not need right now. Seriously, finish up development with everything you have now and release then use profit from sales to fund everything you want to throw in for good measure.

No more feature creep, okay?
 

Shadow-Phoenix

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Wake me up from cryogenic sleep when the game is released, is seen by all as the biggest masterpiece and actually made money from being released other than simply begging for more cash because at this point the game is just piling on more and more promises that still have yet to be fully realised.

Then again if it flops it will be probably the biggest lesson to the games industry as a whole and this time it won't be from the likes of EA, MS or SOny let alone Nintendo, probably a lesson that's needed anyway.
 

lacktheknack

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Dammit, Escapist, I was going to have a Surprise $50M Funded thread, but you've gone and ruined it. :mad:

That said,

Fanghawk said:
On that note, Roberts announced that instead of offering new in-game stretch goals, Star Citizen will give donors control over its production schedule. Leading up to the $51 million mark, backers are able to vote on upcoming features that would be given top priority.
FINALLY! THE INCREASINGLY TERRIFYING SCOPE-CREEP COMES TO AN END. I guess he realized that he was never going to top "Actual learnable language developed by linguists for the three main alien races".

EDIT: More people demanding they stop feature creep? Under the OP that freaking says that they are, and how?

Reading the OP: For chumps.
 

Fanghawk

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Jadak said:
For a game launched by a kickstarter originally asking for $500,000... What in the fuck.
Kyr Knightbane said:
Really? These people need MORE Money?
The game originally started as a $500,000 Kickstarter.
I wish people would stop with that figure. They didn't start on Kickstarter; they had a $2,000,000 minimum funding campaign on their own site.
Kickstarter's popularity was very high around that time though, so users suggested they put the project on there, in addition to their own campaign, for the added exposure. They chose a "low enough" amount that it was "easy enough" to reach and it brought attention both to the project as a whole and their main site. The Kickstarter ended at $2mil and their site campaign "ended" at $6mil.
 

jpoon

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So long as it keeps ALL publishers far the fuck away from this game, I care not. Let them make their own game, no need to complain about them funding themselves when PEOPLE WANT THIS GAME TO HAPPEN. Let it go folks, let the devs dev, and let us all enjoy a good space sim in a couple years.
 

Fanghawk

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jpoon said:
So long as it keeps ALL publishers far the fuck away from this game, I care not. Let them make their own game, no need to complain about them funding themselves when PEOPLE WANT THIS GAME TO HAPPEN. Let it go folks, let the devs dev, and let us all enjoy a good space sim in a couple years.
Or it wont be good, because feature creep causes incredibly poor design quality. If they kept at it, its eventually gonna lose support, and if this games development crashes, then that is plain it for kickstarter models. They'll be dead. Completely dead.
 

Daemascus

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Kyr Knightbane said:
Really? These people need MORE Money?

The game originally started as a $500,000 Kickstarter.

Now they need MORE MONEY? How about this, how about they stop wasting money on stupid Web Connectivity features and stupid social media nonsense and focus on... gee I dunno.... THE GAME


50 Mil.... Yeah i'm already starting to hate this game.


Seeing as how they already dedicated 150k per in game ship model, they need to hire new modelers. It shouldn't cost that much for a game to render an asset.

Plus what the hell happened to the last update? Where things were going so well they SKIPPED A DEVELOPMENT MODULE?!

What is wrong with people. When things are going good, you push forward, not apply the fucking brakes. If everyone did that, the Indy 500 would last 20 years.

"Oooops, i'm in first, better stop and calm down"
The last update was last week, with patch 12.5 which fixed many problems with the multilayer for Arena Commander, and a much larger patch/update in the works for around Gamescom. And its not 150k per each model, that's the average for a game complete ship. A 1000 meter ship like the Bengal Carrier takes a lot more work than the fighters. And its not like they are asking for money, they have had polls about stretch goals and even having the dollar total available to see.
 

Me55enger

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Science should find a way of converting pessimism into fuel. Because then I could power my own bloody Bengal carrier.

But hey! Something is unexpectedly and massively successful! An' I got new wheels on me ol' Ban'wagon!
 

Karadalis

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In the end they wont sell a single copy because everyone who wants the game has allready pledged and will receive their copy when the game finaly launches...

In short they allready saturated most possible customer sales... so there wont be any real "profit" to speak off since they burned it all in development.

Atleast thats my guess with how crazy this whole scenario is.
 

J Tyran

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Jadak said:
For a game launched by a kickstarter originally asking for $500,000... What in the fuck.
This is the problem I have with crowd funding, if they are running out of funds after getting exponentially more than they asked for how would they have made the game for half a million dollars? While the extra money is being spent on production and polishing and expanding the content what would the $500k game have been like?

It was either going to be rubbish from being developed on a shoe string budget or they would never have been able to finish it, like the way that Yoghurt casting game (or whatever it was) collapsed because they ran out of cash.

It seems some of the kickstarters are purposefully underquoting the cost of development to attract more investors as they might think "hey thats not much it should reach that", its a risky strategy and I think we will see a lot more bungled kickstarters because of it.
 

jpoon

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Rainbow_Dashtruction said:
jpoon said:
So long as it keeps ALL publishers far the fuck away from this game, I care not. Let them make their own game, no need to complain about them funding themselves when PEOPLE WANT THIS GAME TO HAPPEN. Let it go folks, let the devs dev, and let us all enjoy a good space sim in a couple years.
Or it wont be good, because feature creep causes incredibly poor design quality. If they kept at it, its eventually gonna lose support, and if this games development crashes, then that is plain it for kickstarter models. They'll be dead. Completely dead.
I don't believe this is the only chance for kickstarter at all, don't kid yourself. There have already been a lot of very successful kickstarters, take Divinity for example. This is just one game so don't act like it would be the end of kickstarter, at the very worst it would be the end of one...single...game.

They've already stopped adding new features to the game, and they have expanded their company to handle it. If Chris has done his work right (and I personally have faith in the guy) there will be enough money and man-power to develop everything and produce something great.

Too many people have the patience of a 10 year old it seems.
Patience...
 

gamegod25

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A man matching Roberts profile was later seen with a fake beard and trench coat, boarding a plane to the Bahamas with an overstuffed suitcase with bills poking out under his arm....
 

Fanghawk

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It sounds legit to me. As funding for a project increases, so does the workload and scope of the game, there's nothing mysterious or greedy about that. Anyone who's seen their videos know that this is a labor of love that the people want to do the right way.
From there on out, you either trust that they can do it or you don't.

Also, keep in mind that the amount of money spent doesn't magically make it a better game or some sort of miracle. I would expect the same thing of the title, regardless of whether they had 2 million or 500 million dollars to get it done, the difference being the level of fidelity and attention to small detail.
I get the feeling that people are expecting the saviour of games incarnate, but that's a terrible and naive way to think about it.

Facts:
1. It's a spacesim. You'll be piloting various ships designed for combat or trade.
2. There will be a single player campaign.
3. They aim to make a true MMU (massively multiplayer universe) that's persistent and modifiable with a player driven economy.

That means that at best, we might get a multiplayer game with emergent gameplay (that isn't EVE Online) and get to witness gaming history of epic proportions, which requires player effort more than development if they're smart about it.
At worst, we'll still get a spacesim that gives you the option of private servers that allow you to use user generated modded content, which is still pretty damn terrific.

Is the money managed in a mature and sensible way? Questionable at best, people with a vision tend not to have the greatest concerns for these "minor" details.
The way I see it, the only way to make sure that this somewhat succeeds, is to throw more money at it.

The worst thing that can happen, is sites that try to spin a negative on this in order to get more hits. If there was any actual negative implications or consequences, then by all means, it should be reported, but the article above just gives you speculation.
If I sound defensive, it's because I'm smelling clickbait rather than cogent journalism and it spreads pessimism, to the detriment of all of us.

Gamefront (the linked article) ask some great questions in regards to the delays and the strain that the bigger scope of the game puts on the developers, but there's a bit too much doom and gloom that's fueled by pure speculation.
The fact is that this is a huge unknown and that scares people. We've never seen a kickstarter of these proportions, we don't know if Cloud Imperium Games can be trusted with handling the money and when we'll have an actual product in our hands. We also don't have evidence of any negative consequences.

All I can say, is that this project needs more articles that speculate on what gaming can be, rather than the limitations we impose on it. It shouldn't be wide-eyed naive upbeat pieces or hypefests, just intelligent articles that spark the imagination and encourage discussion.
 

ExtraDebit

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I hope this wouldn't be another duke nukem forever.

Needing $150,000 for an in game ship is dubious at best, you can get a whole house or even a whole city in game that doesn't require that much money. I think whoever actually believe it cost that much for an in game ship is just gullible and if they DO actually requires that much then they are doing a very very inefficient job and are wasting your money.
 

lassiie

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If I was the developers of this game I would spend every day in fear of this game releasing, as if it is anything other than a fucking masterpiece of epic proportions...they will all be facing hordes of angry disappointed backers....
 

lacktheknack

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Karadalis said:
In the end they wont sell a single copy because everyone who wants the game has allready pledged and will receive their copy when the game finaly launches...

In short they allready saturated most possible customer sales... so there wont be any real "profit" to speak off since they burned it all in development.

Atleast thats my guess with how crazy this whole scenario is.
Nope. I, and many, many other people, aren't showing them a dime (they don't need it at this point) until the game is out and has good buzz.

J Tyran said:
This is the problem I have with crowd funding, if they are running out of funds after getting exponentially more than they asked for how would they have made the game for half a million dollars? While the extra money is being spent on production and polishing and expanding the content what would the $500k game have been like?
It was originally going to be $18M or so. The Kickstarter and external crowdfunding campaign's original goal was $2M, to attract investors.

There was even a big celebration when they hit $22M in funding, if I remember right, because the game was "Officially Completely Indie". Everything up to that point had been accounted for in the original budget.

They've only 2.5xd their budget, not 100xd it. So what are they planning to do now that they weren't planning before? <link=https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals>Making feature-complete, learnable alien languages, that's what.
 

Karadalis

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lacktheknack said:
Nope. I, and many, many other people, aren't showing them a dime (they don't need it at this point) until the game is out and has good buzz.
They allready wont get 50 million in sales.. how much more market can there be left for such a niche game project?

We are talking about a PC only title after all that is also a space fighter simulator.. its not exactly the next GTA despite its aparrant high quality. So the entire fratboy demographic wont touch it.

So i doubt that there is a big profit left to be made by this game.
 

MercyMike

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Specially the 150k dollars for a ship design is complete bogus, we are talking designing the outside and maybe a few rooms for inside the ship, a virtual ship not something real, in a 3D program. After ship number 1 a lot of details, textures and other assets will be reused in other designs. Lets do some quick calculations as many dont seem to even think about such a number as 150k.

If you hire a full time 3d artist , their salary is 60,000 US dollar a year and that is already on the high side. That means 1 ship in SC will have had 2.5 years of 1 person's time to draw. 2 and a half years ! Which of course is just not true. Even a lazy artist with a complex design would be done in 3 months with a minimum of supervision, making the design of the first ship to cost 15k dollars, not a tenfold of that..

The second ship would take a lot shorter because of being able to reuse elements of the fist one.

Roberts needs those bogus high numbers to justify even more money to his fans, nothing else there is no truth behind it.
 

Strazdas

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Bke said:
It sounds like they seriously don't know how to manage their time and organize their development schedule. Usually you want the base game done; have the core experience hashed out as soon as possible with the fiddly extras done later (to put it in very simple terms) that way if there is a sudden need to release its not like to lose any of that core experience. From what I've seen they've still to finish the persistent world which is meant to be the main feature in which the ships will interact... cause MMO.

This just screams of poor design process, plain and simple.
when your making oneoff game - yes. whne your making MMO the best thing you can do is make your core able to take massive changes without brekaing. it may not seem important now, but 5 years down the lifecycle you will hit a deadwall that you coded in 5 years ago before thinking something is possible that you want to implement now. having "fiddly extras" done at launch however expands the possibilities for later change significantly.

MercyMike said:
If you hire a full time 3d artist , their salary is 60,000 US dollar a year and that is already on the high side. That means 1 ship in SC will have had 2.5 years of 1 person's time to draw. 2 and a half years ! Which of course is just not true. Even a lazy artist with a complex design would be done in 3 months with a minimum of supervision, making the design of the first ship to cost 15k dollars, not a tenfold of that..

The second ship would take a lot shorter because of being able to reuse elements of the fist one.
thats not how it works. you hire artists to do ships, as in, you pay them per ship. and how much they ask depends on polycount. supposedly, the poly count in this game is through the roof.

and yeah, you dont know space games if you think reusing ship assets is a thing.

Not that im saying they arent making thing up, just that your calculating it wrong to begin with.


Karadalis said:
We are talking about a PC only title after all that is also a space fighter simulator.. its not exactly the next GTA despite its aparrant high quality. So the entire fratboy demographic wont touch it.

So i doubt that there is a big profit left to be made by this game.
so released on most profitable platform, where the space fighter userbase mainly resides. they know which market to pick, the question is only how big is that market.
 

MercyMike

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Strazdas said:
thats not how it works. you hire artists to do ships, as in, you pay them per ship. and how much they ask depends on polycount. supposedly, the poly count in this game is through the roof.

and yeah, you dont know space games if you think reusing ship assets is a thing.

Not that im saying they arent making thing up, just that your calculating it wrong to begin with.
Polygon count can be easily upped to impressive numbers by any 3d package without actually adding workload, to make curves smoother for example. And like in any game, space games too , assets are reused. Think about things like textures, external weapons, little ship details, windows, tailgates, exhausts. After designing a few ship you will end up with a nice part bin that makes building each next ship less and less time intensive.

Ok so they don't use full time hired designers but pay per project, that will reduce the costs even more because you can fish in a larger pool and save on things like medical plans, pensions plans and so on. My calculations might be wrong but they are a lot closer to the truth than the 150,000 dollars per ship quote from Roberts.
 

pearcinator

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Ok so I only just looked up this game and it piqued my interest.

However, there is one thing I don't quite understand...in what way do you actually purchase the game? It looks like there are different packages to purchase (from $40 US up to a mega-fucking-whopping-omgwtfbbq $15000 US! Seriously!). So does actually buying a particular package limit you to how much of the game is available to you? I am confused.

To me it sounds like buying the $40 package gets you 1 shitty ship to fly around in while those who spend the $15K are the only ones who actually own the full game? Or are they just 'paying to win' and by spending $15k they are basically given the end-game? If so, then WTF so confusing! Why would you even play the game if you have unlocked everything straight away with your fat wallet?
 

RedDeadFred

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The more I hear about this game, the more I have a feeling that people are getting screwed over...

I don't care how much you've added, going from needing 500 thousand to over 49 million is ridiculous and I don't understand how they're still getting money. Then again, I would never fund ANY kickstarter, let alone one that's already made a ludicrous amount of money.
 

lacktheknack

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RedDeadFred said:
The more I hear about this game, the more I have a feeling that people are getting screwed over...

I don't care how much you've added, going from needing 500 thousand to over 49 million is ridiculous and I don't understand how they're still getting money. Then again, I would never fund ANY kickstarter, let alone one that's already made a ludicrous amount of money.
~$20M original budget*

They've doubled their budget, not multiplied it by a hundred. They just don't need investors anymore. The Kickstarter was one quarter of their original fundraiser (run from their website), which was mostly meant to attract investors/publishers, but the response was so great that they're going indie instead.
 

Nereus77

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I follow the development of this game very closely. I admire the passion of the developers. I haven't backed yet, but I should by the end of the year.

Star Citizen is going to be the Best Damn Space Sim Ever!
 

Saulkar

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And here I am, patching the game, waiting to see how hard I can break this game after the latest patches (whenever those were, hrmm). XD
 

Talaris

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The main downside is more funds will push back the final release date. I'm a backer since the kickstarter in 2012, and whilst I'm enjoying the Arena Commander module now most of the bugs have been removed, I'm also wishing I had backed Elite Dangerous back in 2012 too as that's on schedule to release in a few months.

There are people in my guild who paid $1000 for an Idris corvette, which to be honest I think is way too much of a risk to invest if they end up disliking the game, I mean all that gives you is one big ship to pilot.
 

Karadalis

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Strazdas said:
so released on most profitable platform, where the space fighter userbase mainly resides. they know which market to pick, the question is only how big is that market.
Yup.. thats the big question. Star citizen is filling up a niche that has been left empty for a while and it could become something akin to the WoW of space sims.. but i wonder how many sales are left out there. How many of the people interested in the game havent allready invested into it?

I cant imagine that the market for space sims is that huge or else the big publishers would jump onto the oportunity.. And it is fact that they will be "missing" out of 50 mil in sales.. that money was allready paid.

Personally i dont believe that there are many sales left... "many" in sales numbers mind you, it could still reach 600k - 1 mil+ sales after release.
 

Rawbeard

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STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!

You do not have the audience, you will never have the audience, to make that work. all you do is kill your industry. *sigh*
 
Apr 5, 2008
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jpoon said:
So long as it keeps ALL publishers far the fuck away from this game, I care not. Let them make their own game, no need to complain about them funding themselves when PEOPLE WANT THIS GAME TO HAPPEN. Let it go folks, let the devs dev, and let us all enjoy a good space sim in a couple years.
I could not agree more. This game is everything I could personally hope for. A genre I like but which other publishers don't care about. The dev completely owns the IP and everything associated with the game. A PC exclusive designed to make full use of the cutting edge graphics, PC UI and controls, AAA budget, a thorough single player experience but with the option of multiplayer. I'm very excited about SC and am a proud backer. One of my perks is a lifetime-insured ship (albeit presumably a low-level one) so I have a nice safety net to look forward to. Maybe some suicide ganking....*evil grin*

I can't for the life of me understand why they would still need yet more money however. Surely what they have is enough to get the game finished, whether it is released in a year or two.
 

RoonMian

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pearcinator said:
Ok so I only just looked up this game and it piqued my interest.

However, there is one thing I don't quite understand...in what way do you actually purchase the game? It looks like there are different packages to purchase (from $40 US up to a mega-fucking-whopping-omgwtfbbq $15000 US! Seriously!). So does actually buying a particular package limit you to how much of the game is available to you? I am confused.

To me it sounds like buying the $40 package gets you 1 shitty ship to fly around in while those who spend the $15K are the only ones who actually own the full game? Or are they just 'paying to win' and by spending $15k they are basically given the end-game? If so, then WTF so confusing! Why would you even play the game if you have unlocked everything straight away with your fat wallet?
All you need is a package with the game included. One of these.

To play in the current module Arena Commander you're also gonna need this.

That is all you need to start playing. If you wanna spend more to help the development you can also pledge more and get more ships but this is not pay2win because everything you can pledge for right now will be available in the game for ingame money as well. the 15.000US package just has all the ships they have revealed thus far for you to start the game with, it is by no means necessary. Those who bought that package did so to support the game, not pay2win.
 

lacktheknack

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Rawbeard said:
STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!

You do not have the audience, you will never have the audience, to make that work. all you do is kill your industry. *sigh*
"You don't have the audience"

Do you even know what "crowdfunding" is?
 

Excludos

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The amount of Dunning-Kruger effect in this thread is staggering. People who have no idea of how to develop a game or why they need money to do it. "ooh, but the original asked for 500 000, and now they want more? lol fail!". No. For $500 000, you can make a $500 000 game (ignoring the fact that 500 000 was never the goal to begin with as they had investors lined up). Now they have $50 million, and guess what? Now they're making a $50 mill game. Stop commenting on shit you clearly don't have an inkling of understanding... meh, who am I kidding? This is the internet, where everyone are experts in all fields.

(not directed at one individual in particular, but a large amount of commenters in this thread)
 

drakonz

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Strazdas said:
MercyMike said:
If you hire a full time 3d artist , their salary is 60,000 US dollar a year and that is already on the high side. That means 1 ship in SC will have had 2.5 years of 1 person's time to draw. 2 and a half years ! Which of course is just not true. Even a lazy artist with a complex design would be done in 3 months with a minimum of supervision, making the design of the first ship to cost 15k dollars, not a tenfold of that..

The second ship would take a lot shorter because of being able to reuse elements of the fist one.
thats not how it works. you hire artists to do ships, as in, you pay them per ship. and how much they ask depends on polycount. supposedly, the poly count in this game is through the roof.

and yeah, you dont know space games if you think reusing ship assets is a thing.

Not that im saying they arent making thing up, just that your calculating it wrong to begin with.
im sorry but 150k dollars for single ship (unless its suposed to be map size of skyrim with similar atention to detail) dosent make any sense regardess of how you calculate it. Grand Palais turned into 3d model costs 3500 dollars its fully mapped and got 3,4 million polygons and 3.9 million vertices. there is limit how many polygons game can have on screen before it stats slowing down computer so going for insane numbers of polygons on single objects simply makes no sense (+ for this kind of project you hire artist itself and do contract work only on smaller things. simply because hiring artist and paying monthly salary ends up being cheaper) and every single game including space games reuse assets because it makes no sense to remake assets for everything just to make them look sligly different (not to forget you usualy just edit aready done assets most of the time instead of making compledly new ones expelialy for smaller objects)
 

Fanghawk

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Star Citizen is just shy of $50 million, but needs additional funds to "sustain this level of development".

Upon reaching the $49 million mark, Chris Roberts addressed the issue by stating that crowdfunding is essential to Star Citizen's continued development.

"To sustain this level of development, we need to keep bringing in additional funds."
These statements should concern the ever-loving shit out of the current backers. They should be asking, "Forget stretch goals. Is there enough left in the bank to even finish this thing?" Because if the "continued development" of Star Citizen is dependent upon additional and continuous crowdfunding, then this thing is doomed to fail once that funding source dries up.

And it will dry up.
 

briankoontz

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Excludos said:
The amount of Dunning-Kruger effect in this thread is staggering. People who have no idea of how to develop a game or why they need money to do it. "ooh, but the original asked for 500 000, and now they want more? lol fail!". No. For $500 000, you can make a $500 000 game (ignoring the fact that 500 000 was never the goal to begin with as they had investors lined up). Now they have $50 million, and guess what? Now they're making a $50 mill game. Stop commenting on shit you clearly don't have an inkling of understanding... meh, who am I kidding? This is the internet, where everyone are experts in all fields.

(not directed at one individual in particular, but a large amount of commenters in this thread)
Wow - your faith in the sustained quality of a game which is constantly changing aspects of it's design to accommodate an ever-increasing budget is remarkable.

In what other artform is this a good idea? Should Picasso have worked by this model? So he has a vision for a $1,000 painting and if he gets $10,000 then he has another vision for what that means? What if he gets $100,000 - he then imports rare paint?

How about the closest comparison - film. So during the production of a film that film gets an ever increasing budget. What a clusterfuck that would result in. Actors could be swapped out for more expensive ones, additional editors could be hired, more expensive shooting locations could be used, etc. While this in some cases makes the film better, it's terribly inefficient at best and deeply artistically corrupting at worst. Artists have a *single* vision for the outcome of their art - it's insane to expect them to have multiple visions depending on their funding level.

We should be asking whether taking Star Citizen from $20 Million to $50 Million makes it $30 Million BETTER.

Just because there's no single thing to blame as in the case of big publishers doesn't mean this situation is good. Chris Roberts and all the developers along with all the recent funders share the responsibility for this.

Instead of Spider-man's recommendation of "With great power comes great responsibility" this game is operating more on "with endless money comes endless ambition".

Art needs constraints, and it needs to understand what those constraints are. Star Citizen is laboring under the terrible situation of not knowing the parameters for it's own creation.
 

Rawbeard

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lacktheknack said:
Rawbeard said:
STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!

You do not have the audience, you will never have the audience, to make that work. all you do is kill your industry. *sigh*
"You don't have the audience"

Do you even know what "crowdfunding" is?
Did you even read the part where the crowdfunded money is not enough?
 

Glaice

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49 mil and you still NEED more? What are you burning all that cash on?
 

lacktheknack

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Rawbeard said:
lacktheknack said:
Rawbeard said:
STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!

You do not have the audience, you will never have the audience, to make that work. all you do is kill your industry. *sigh*
"You don't have the audience"

Do you even know what "crowdfunding" is?
Did you even read the part where the crowdfunded money is not enough?
Yeah, but they're still pulling in a million every month (over $3M in June) and there's no reason to believe it's going to stop right away.
 

Apostheum

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Excludos said:
The amount of Dunning-Kruger effect in this thread is staggering. People who have no idea of how to develop a game or why they need money to do it. "ooh, but the original asked for 500 000, and now they want more? lol fail!". No. For $500 000, you can make a $500 000 game (ignoring the fact that 500 000 was never the goal to begin with as they had investors lined up). Now they have $50 million, and guess what? Now they're making a $50 mill game. Stop commenting on shit you clearly don't have an inkling of understanding... meh, who am I kidding? This is the internet, where everyone are experts in all fields.

(not directed at one individual in particular, but a large amount of commenters in this thread)
Yes. It's staggering how you embody it so perfectly with your post.
 

pearcinator

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RoonMian said:
All you need is a package with the game included. One of these.

To play in the current module Arena Commander you're also gonna need this.

That is all you need to start playing. If you wanna spend more to help the development you can also pledge more and get more ships but this is not pay2win because everything you can pledge for right now will be available in the game for ingame money as well. the 15.000US package just has all the ships they have revealed thus far for you to start the game with, it is by no means necessary. Those who bought that package did so to support the game, not pay2win.
Right ok. I don't really buy into the whole alpha/beta phase of games. Is there a release date for it yet? Will there be physical copies of the game sold in retailers or will it be on Steam (or some other online distributor)? Is it an MMO-like game? What does the 'insurance' mean on the package plans (are they like subscription fees?). Is there a story/goal of the game or do you just explore space/raid shit etc. (i.e. is it like a sci-fi space-sim version of DayZ? Or is there an RPG-like story behind it all?)

I have too many questions about this game...it looks really cool but I don't fully understand what the game is like.
 

RedDeadFred

Illusions, Michael!
May 13, 2009
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lacktheknack said:
RedDeadFred said:
The more I hear about this game, the more I have a feeling that people are getting screwed over...

I don't care how much you've added, going from needing 500 thousand to over 49 million is ridiculous and I don't understand how they're still getting money. Then again, I would never fund ANY kickstarter, let alone one that's already made a ludicrous amount of money.
~$20M original budget*

They've doubled their budget, not multiplied it by a hundred. They just don't need investors anymore. The Kickstarter was one quarter of their original fundraiser (run from their website), which was mostly meant to attract investors/publishers, but the response was so great that they're going indie instead.
Really? I didn't actually look it up but people earlier in the thread were saying it was 500K. It's not nearly as bad the way you're putting it.
 

lacktheknack

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RedDeadFred said:
lacktheknack said:
RedDeadFred said:
The more I hear about this game, the more I have a feeling that people are getting screwed over...

I don't care how much you've added, going from needing 500 thousand to over 49 million is ridiculous and I don't understand how they're still getting money. Then again, I would never fund ANY kickstarter, let alone one that's already made a ludicrous amount of money.
~$20M original budget*

They've doubled their budget, not multiplied it by a hundred. They just don't need investors anymore. The Kickstarter was one quarter of their original fundraiser (run from their website), which was mostly meant to attract investors/publishers, but the response was so great that they're going indie instead.
Really? I didn't actually look it up but people earlier in the thread were saying it was 500K. It's not nearly as bad the way you're putting it.
They saw the $500k Kickstarter, and incorrectly assume it was literally the only funding the game had at the time.

In reality, they had about $18M-$20M worth of investors lined up, and were running a $2M crowdfunding campaign outside of Kickstarter (Kickstarter was a backer idea, actually) just to prove that the investment was sound, to avoid investors getting cold feet at the last second.

It worked too well. So well that they ended up dumping the investors. :p
 

RedDeadFred

Illusions, Michael!
May 13, 2009
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lacktheknack said:
RedDeadFred said:
lacktheknack said:
RedDeadFred said:
The more I hear about this game, the more I have a feeling that people are getting screwed over...

I don't care how much you've added, going from needing 500 thousand to over 49 million is ridiculous and I don't understand how they're still getting money. Then again, I would never fund ANY kickstarter, let alone one that's already made a ludicrous amount of money.
~$20M original budget*

They've doubled their budget, not multiplied it by a hundred. They just don't need investors anymore. The Kickstarter was one quarter of their original fundraiser (run from their website), which was mostly meant to attract investors/publishers, but the response was so great that they're going indie instead.
Really? I didn't actually look it up but people earlier in the thread were saying it was 500K. It's not nearly as bad the way you're putting it.
They saw the $500k Kickstarter, and incorrectly assume it was literally the only funding the game had at the time.

In reality, they had about $18M-$20M worth of investors lined up, and were running a $2M crowdfunding campaign outside of Kickstarter (Kickstarter was a backer idea, actually) just to prove that the investment was sound, to avoid investors getting cold feet at the last second.

It worked too well. So well that they ended up dumping the investors. :p
Ah well that's much better. This sounds a great deal more promising than I had originally thought. Thanks for the clarification!
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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RedDeadFred said:
lacktheknack said:
RedDeadFred said:
lacktheknack said:
RedDeadFred said:
The more I hear about this game, the more I have a feeling that people are getting screwed over...

I don't care how much you've added, going from needing 500 thousand to over 49 million is ridiculous and I don't understand how they're still getting money. Then again, I would never fund ANY kickstarter, let alone one that's already made a ludicrous amount of money.
~$20M original budget*

They've doubled their budget, not multiplied it by a hundred. They just don't need investors anymore. The Kickstarter was one quarter of their original fundraiser (run from their website), which was mostly meant to attract investors/publishers, but the response was so great that they're going indie instead.
Really? I didn't actually look it up but people earlier in the thread were saying it was 500K. It's not nearly as bad the way you're putting it.
They saw the $500k Kickstarter, and incorrectly assume it was literally the only funding the game had at the time.

In reality, they had about $18M-$20M worth of investors lined up, and were running a $2M crowdfunding campaign outside of Kickstarter (Kickstarter was a backer idea, actually) just to prove that the investment was sound, to avoid investors getting cold feet at the last second.

It worked too well. So well that they ended up dumping the investors. :p
Ah well that's much better. This sounds a great deal more promising than I had originally thought. Thanks for the clarification!
Articles like this are made for viewcounts, not informing the readership xD.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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MercyMike said:
Polygon count can be easily upped to impressive numbers by any 3d package without actually adding workload, to make curves smoother for example. And like in any game, space games too , assets are reused. Think about things like textures, external weapons, little ship details, windows, tailgates, exhausts. After designing a few ship you will end up with a nice part bin that makes building each next ship less and less time intensive.

Ok so they don't use full time hired designers but pay per project, that will reduce the costs even more because you can fish in a larger pool and save on things like medical plans, pensions plans and so on. My calculations might be wrong but they are a lot closer to the truth than the 150,000 dollars per ship quote from Roberts.
Of course it can, but thats not real modeling, rather just using smoothing algorythms and they dont even come close to actual handcrafted polygons. yep, some companies cut corners doing that and the models end up looking bad. they however are making it the right way.

Some assets are reused, sure, but ship designs vary grealty. cant just take a unit and reskin it.

pearcinator said:
in what way do you actually purchase the game? It looks like there are different packages to purchase (from $40 US up to a mega-fucking-whopping-omgwtfbbq $15000 US! Seriously!). So does actually buying a particular package limit you to how much of the game is available to you? I am confused.
you dont.... yet. its not released yet. this is a kickstarted-like funding project and the game is still in developement. there is a small demo for large pledges but thats it.

ALso if you pledge enough to get the game copy on release you get full game. the extras are tacked on acessories that do not affect your gameplay at all.

the 15000 donations and the like mostly come from famouse people/companies that support ir rather than regular individuals. For example i believe Notch pledged a huge sum.

Karadalis said:
Yup.. thats the big question. Star citizen is filling up a niche that has been left empty for a while and it could become something akin to the WoW of space sims.. but i wonder how many sales are left out there. How many of the people interested in the game havent allready invested into it?

I cant imagine that the market for space sims is that huge or else the big publishers would jump onto the oportunity.. And it is fact that they will be "missing" out of 50 mil in sales.. that money was allready paid.

Personally i dont believe that there are many sales left... "many" in sales numbers mind you, it could still reach 600k - 1 mil+ sales after release.
cant answer you how many, obviuosly. i know im not one of them. i prefer my flying eve style - telling the ship where to go - rather than SC style - piloting on your own and i dont plan to play this game. still it is interesting to see how the market i like (space sims) gets reignited with such passion.

ech, big publishers were blind before. just look how square enix was "surprised" by a game in abandoned market selling millions of copies, even though the fans were saying it will sell for years but bigt publishers just didnt want to try it. just look how they abandoned horror genre - one of the most profitable right now. big publishers arent always right.

thing is, it does not matter if there are sales left. since the budget was crowdunded, even if they sell exactly 0 copies they still broke even. they dont have to repay loans or investors. So i wouldnt be too worried about that. and games like these, especially ones oriented into still looking good a few years down the line, tend to pick up steady pace later in thier lifestyle.

Rawbeard said:
STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!

You do not have the audience, you will never have the audience, to make that work. all you do is kill your industry. *sigh*
except that this game is 100% audience funded so they do have the audience.

drakonz said:
im sorry but 150k dollars for single ship (unless its suposed to be map size of skyrim with similar atention to detail) dosent make any sense regardess of how you calculate it. Grand Palais turned into 3d model costs 3500 dollars its fully mapped and got 3,4 million polygons and 3.9 million vertices. there is limit how many polygons game can have on screen before it stats slowing down computer so going for insane numbers of polygons on single objects simply makes no sense (+ for this kind of project you hire artist itself and do contract work only on smaller things. simply because hiring artist and paying monthly salary ends up being cheaper) and every single game including space games reuse assets because it makes no sense to remake assets for everything just to make them look sligly different (not to forget you usualy just edit aready done assets most of the time instead of making compledly new ones expelialy for smaller objects)
first of all, what Robert said was:
"That cost includes the time used to make the model as well as to model realistic functions; it includes a number of moving parts and animated dashboards."

So its more than 3D model. Its basically getting the ship ready to be playable.

Secondly, a carrier/drednaught class ships ARE the size of skyrim. the smallest ship in thge game - fighter, will have 300,000 polygons. the large ones have 10 or more times that.

And yes, large polycount requires more graphic power, hence the high system requirements for the game. also why the game will have low quality settings for people with older GPUs/CPUs.

MinionJoe said:
These statements should concern the ever-loving shit out of the current backers. They should be asking, "Forget stretch goals. Is there enough left in the bank to even finish this thing?" Because if the "continued development" of Star Citizen is dependent upon additional and continuous crowdfunding, then this thing is doomed to fail once that funding source dries up.

And it will dry up.
The base game is not even on the table now. the base game+stretch goals is the question. they want to release with all the extra features at once since they got the money they didnt expect and was planning to put these features later after sales.

Also the game IS A MMO. all MMOs do continuous developement, which costs money.

briankoontz said:
In what other artform is this a good idea? Should Picasso have worked by this model? So he has a vision for a $1,000 painting and if he gets $10,000 then he has another vision for what that means? What if he gets $100,000 - he then imports rare paint?

How about the closest comparison - film. So during the production of a film that film gets an ever increasing budget. What a clusterfuck that would result in. Actors could be swapped out for more expensive ones, additional editors could be hired, more expensive shooting locations could be used, etc. While this in some cases makes the film better, it's terribly inefficient at best and deeply artistically corrupting at worst. Artists have a *single* vision for the outcome of their art - it's insane to expect them to have multiple visions depending on their funding level.

Art needs constraints, and it needs to understand what those constraints are. Star Citizen is laboring under the terrible situation of not knowing the parameters for it's own creation.
you answered your own question - importing better paint is a good example for painter. for the film - making better props and buying better CGI is a good example - both has been done by the way. and it didnt result in clusterfuck, for example the second hobbit film wasnt a clusterfuck (at least in my opinion).

movies get re-edited ALL THE TIME. thats why you have cinema cut, directors cut, ect.

Btw, AVGN movie did afford mroe expensive shooting locations and changed a lot of CGI into practica effects only after it got over-funded too.

this model WORKS in other industries.

No, the LAST thing art needs is constraints.

pearcinator said:
Right ok. I don't really buy into the whole alpha/beta phase of games. Is there a release date for it yet? Will there be physical copies of the game sold in retailers or will it be on Steam (or some other online distributor)? Is it an MMO-like game? What does the 'insurance' mean on the package plans (are they like subscription fees?). Is there a story/goal of the game or do you just explore space/raid shit etc. (i.e. is it like a sci-fi space-sim version of DayZ? Or is there an RPG-like story behind it all?)

I have too many questions about this game...it looks really cool but I don't fully understand what the game is like.
I dont do beta either so i can understand perfectly. No release date is set as far as i know. Not sure about physical distribution. It is a MMO-like game, however they claim there will be singleplayer mode and you could host your own servers, meaning you could run your own server and be the only player too or just invite a few friends. Sorry, i cannot answer the rest, hopefully somone with more info will.
 

Rozalia1

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I can only assume they can wrap up the game up and push it out at anytime and are just using this to milk some more money from the marks. I didn't actually know their were that many marks who'd fall for his cheap pops/heat, but some people just have "it" I suppose.

This is actually something that may well come in handy in the future so I look forward to reading on how this ends.
 

Excludos

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Apostheum said:
Excludos said:
The amount of Dunning-Kruger effect in this thread is staggering. People who have no idea of how to develop a game or why they need money to do it. "ooh, but the original asked for 500 000, and now they want more? lol fail!". No. For $500 000, you can make a $500 000 game (ignoring the fact that 500 000 was never the goal to begin with as they had investors lined up). Now they have $50 million, and guess what? Now they're making a $50 mill game. Stop commenting on shit you clearly don't have an inkling of understanding... meh, who am I kidding? This is the internet, where everyone are experts in all fields.

(not directed at one individual in particular, but a large amount of commenters in this thread)
Yes. It's staggering how you embody it so perfectly with your post.
Says the guy who's too lazy to even bother arguing his opinion.

I didn't mention anything about their development cycle or internal decisionmaking, because I have no fucking clue. All I said was that the reason they might want more money while at more than twice their initial target is because they are now making a game thats worth more than twice as much. They're not failing to produce the game they promised for $500 000. They're working on a game that's worth ten times as much.
 

weirdee

Swamp Weather Balloon Gas
Apr 11, 2011
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i don't think anybody's ever going to be able to comprehend the dollar value of each pixel they are staring at on the ship to be worth more than any other pixel they've seen before
 

Ishigami

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Sep 1, 2011
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Strazdas said:
Rawbeard said:
STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!

You do not have the audience, you will never have the audience, to make that work. all you do is kill your industry. *sigh*
except that this game is 100% audience funded so they do have the audience.
Actually no they don't.
These funds are reached by increasing the purchase cost of the average buyer. The average pledge lies at something of around 100$.
That is about twice as much as an ordinary person would pay for a video game on PC these days.
This game would never sell as many copies under normal circumstances to recoup such a budget.
It sends out wrong signals in all sorts of directions.
 

SecondPrize

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Looks like someone should have put actual work into budgeting instead of pulling numbers out of their ass. There is no excuse for this. People treating kickstarter like they're not just as accountable as if they had a contract with a developer will go a long way to fucking crowdsourcing up for everyone.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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0
Ishigami said:
Strazdas said:
Rawbeard said:
STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!

You do not have the audience, you will never have the audience, to make that work. all you do is kill your industry. *sigh*
except that this game is 100% audience funded so they do have the audience.
Actually no they don't.
These funds are reached by increasing the purchase cost of the average buyer. The average pledge lies at something of around 100$.
That is about twice as much as an ordinary person would pay for a video game on PC these days.
This game would never sell as many copies under normal circumstances to recoup such a budget.
It sends out wrong signals in all sorts of directions.
only if you take pure average. This is because there is a couple very large donations that brings the average up. the median donation is i think something around 40 dollars. and thats cheaper than most AAA titles at launch. Also even at 100 dollars, they have 49 million, which would mean 490.000 players willing to pay in advance to play. Thats quite an audience id say. Yes, its not the tomb raider 4 million sales, but for a crowdunded niche genre game thats quite a lot.
 

Ishigami

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Strazdas said:
Ishigami said:
Strazdas said:
Rawbeard said:
STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!

You do not have the audience, you will never have the audience, to make that work. all you do is kill your industry. *sigh*
except that this game is 100% audience funded so they do have the audience.
Actually no they don't.
These funds are reached by increasing the purchase cost of the average buyer. The average pledge lies at something of around 100$.
That is about twice as much as an ordinary person would pay for a video game on PC these days.
This game would never sell as many copies under normal circumstances to recoup such a budget.
It sends out wrong signals in all sorts of directions.
only if you take pure average. This is because there is a couple very large donations that brings the average up. the median donation is i think something around 40 dollars. and thats cheaper than most AAA titles at launch. Also even at 100 dollars, they have 49 million, which would mean 490.000 players willing to pay in advance to play. Thats quite an audience id say. Yes, its not the tomb raider 4 million sales, but for a crowdunded niche genre game thats quite a lot.
A couple of is a nice way to ignore the issue. If you read the boards then you know that there are thousands of people which are in for roughly about 300$.
The average pledge is a nice way to illustrate that CR managed to increase the game price for the consumer in general without being called out for by concealing it cleverly as pledges which the consumer purchases "on their own will".
Yes you only need to pay 30$ to actually get access but case and point is many don't stay at that reasonable entry level as they are persuaded by exploitive business practices to spend more and more.
Want to know which other games use similar practices to exploit their players? - F2P MMOs.
Under normal circumstances (CIG raising the funds and producing the game on their own BEFORE selling it) SC would not be viable with the budget it has as chances are pretty slim that it would be able to recoup it and make a profit.
I have nothing against crowdfunding in general as it makes "games unattractive for regular publishers" possible. But there is something wrong when a game reaches more than it estimated, more than it ever hopped for and still keeps collecting "pledges to secure the funds".
People are so blind they want CIG to keep the shop after release selling stuff and currency at the current rate... yea fuck those rippoff 5$ DLC crap planes by Bandi/Namco for Ace Combat but please give me the option to shell 125$ for a Honret in SC!!!!

... yea... no!
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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Ishigami said:
A couple of is a nice way to ignore the issue. If you read the boards then you know that there are thousands of people which are in for roughly about 300$.
The average pledge is a nice way to illustrate that CR managed to increase the game price for the consumer in general without being called out for by concealing it cleverly as pledges which the consumer purchases "on their own will".
Yes you only need to pay 30$ to actually get access but case and point is many don't stay at that reasonable entry level as they are persuaded by exploitive business practices to spend more and more.
Want to know which other games use similar practices to exploit their players? - F2P MMOs.
Under normal circumstances (CIG raising the funds and producing the game on their own BEFORE selling it) SC would not be viable with the budget it has as chances are pretty slim that it would be able to recoup it and make a profit.
I have nothing against crowdfunding in general as it makes "games unattractive for regular publishers" possible. But there is something wrong when a game reaches more than it estimated, more than it ever hopped for and still keeps collecting "pledges to secure the funds".
People are so blind they want CIG to keep the shop after release selling stuff and currency at the current rate... yea fuck those rippoff 5$ DLC crap planes by Bandi/Namco for Ace Combat but please give me the option to shell 125$ for a Honret in SC!!!!

... yea... no!
Just because somone takes and dumps a million into a project does not mean that all other pledgers are dumping 100 dolalrs each. when calcualting averages such extremities should be ruled out or your just making poor statistics. Of course often this requires human decision thus most automated systems dont, like the kickstarter one.

majority of pledges DOES stay at the bellow regualr game at lauch price range. its just that there are a few that did more thna just buy a game but rather went to fund the project with large dumps, which brought the average up.

i never felt persuaded to buy anyone from star citizen, so im not sure what you mean here.

This is not normal circumstances. the costs are already recouped by crowdfunding. so there already is an audience there and theres nothing left to prove here - SC already proved it would ahve had a huge audience.

I do agree that the ship shop is a P2W tactics here though.
 

Augustine

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Rawbeard said:
STOP MAKING GAMES THAT NEED HIGHER BUDGET THAN BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES!
We are not making a game, we are building a dream. Dream shared by the backers of the project. The rest can leave.

This dream already has an audience. And it will not damage gaming at large because it is completely separate from it. Even if not a single person will buy SC after the release, it will still be more or less alright.
 

Vikingr

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These articles about the funding of Star Citizen is always making lots of people jump to false conclusions because they don't have the facts straight. And that is the Escapist's fault in this case.

For instance, I read comments about "They asked for $500,000 at Kickstarter and now they have $49M and still need more?" - which clearly shows people have no idea what they're talking about. Maybe that'd be clearer if Escapist tell people that the original Kickstarter goal was only to convince CIG's investors to invest, and now that CIG has gotten more than they asked for they've decided not to use their investors after all?

Another false statement is the "feature creep" slander. Uninformed people make that statement all the time, even people who have pledged and are visiting the RSI site daily. It's not hard to google what CR says about this, for those who are interested.
 

RoonMian

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pearcinator said:
RoonMian said:
All you need is a package with the game included. One of these.

To play in the current module Arena Commander you're also gonna need this.

That is all you need to start playing. If you wanna spend more to help the development you can also pledge more and get more ships but this is not pay2win because everything you can pledge for right now will be available in the game for ingame money as well. the 15.000US package just has all the ships they have revealed thus far for you to start the game with, it is by no means necessary. Those who bought that package did so to support the game, not pay2win.
Right ok. I don't really buy into the whole alpha/beta phase of games. Is there a release date for it yet? Will there be physical copies of the game sold in retailers or will it be on Steam (or some other online distributor)? Is it an MMO-like game? What does the 'insurance' mean on the package plans (are they like subscription fees?). Is there a story/goal of the game or do you just explore space/raid shit etc. (i.e. is it like a sci-fi space-sim version of DayZ? Or is there an RPG-like story behind it all?)

I have too many questions about this game...it looks really cool but I don't fully understand what the game is like.
There is not a release date, yet. The release is modular, the devs give us each bit of the game as soon as it (more or less) works. Nobody has ever done a game release like this. We get stuff other companies would never release in such an early state. For example, just last weekend there was a big CIG event in Cologne, Germany, where among other things the racing module was unveiled. After each race the server crashed, it didn't work with the Warthog, it still has a lot of trouble. Still the racing module will be on backer PCs in about two weeks. If you'd rather wait for the finished game, that's is totally okay. Official release with everything they want at launch finished will be late 2015, early 2016.

Until now I haven't read anything about Steam. That might happen, I don't know. Same with physical copies. Sorry, can't tell you any details here.

It's a three-pronged game. First there is a branching single player campaign called Squadron 42. It's gonna have drop-in/drop-out multi player a bit like dark souls. Then there is the persistent universe, that will be an MMO, a little bit like EvE online with parts of the game world highly policed and other parts with free for all PvP. And lastly the devs are gonna release pretty much a complete array of mod tools. People can build their own campaigns, their own ships, their own galaxies, everything. I'm pretty sure there will be a star trek server, a star wars server, a battlestar galactica server, a babylon 5 server etc.

Insurance is an ingame thing. You insure your ship with a bit of ingame money and when it gets blown up you get back the ship hull with the basic gear you bought it with. Under certain conditions you can also insure equipment and cargo. Right now when you pledge for a ship you get insurance for the duration indicated. The first backers up until a year ago got an unlimited insurance for their pledged ships. Insurance is just a minor gameplay feature, though. It has nothing to do with subscription fees, SC won't have those.

Last question: There is a story-based single player campaign. The persistent universe is all about the emergent gameplay though I am sure the devs are gonna hold some events now and then to keep us entertained. :D

Edit: On the latest 10 for the chairman Chris Roberts said the single player story would have elements of Gladiator and Heart of Darkness. In space.

Edit Edit: Oh and by the way, if you wonder what they need the 50 million for... They need it to fly a hairdresser back and forth between Los Angeles and Manchester obviously because Chris and Erin Roberts have exactly the same astroboy hairstyle.