Star Wars: This Is How You Defend The Ridiculous Crossguard Lightsaber

Something Amyss

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CaptainMarvelous said:
That is true! In fact, thinking about it, we could have done a lot worse than a Cross Guard

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I'm 90% sure this isn't just fan art.
You had Gungan Jedi AND Sith, so even if that is fan art, there really were EU equivalents.

You know, back when the WotC Star Wars RPG came out, I played a Gungan Jedi as a joke. I should have known it would have ended up happening.
 

Dying_Jester

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So I'm kind of wondering if anyone has taken a look at the old Star Wars posters? Take a look at the Lightsaber on that poster, it's like whoever was put in charge of the design for the crossguard Lightsaber knew nothing of Star Wars but that poster.
 

Azuaron

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Infernai said:
Azuaron said:
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One thing that's always kinda boggled me is why nobodies used the lightsabers main aspect mid-fight: The on/off button.

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Another possible move is simple: Turn off your opponents saber mid clash. Aka. While clashing, just reach a hand forwards to your enemies blades hilt and hit the off switch.

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The problem will be you're fighting a jedi/sith, and they're force sensitive. A lot of people complained about how choreographed the prequel fights looked, but it always made sense to me: they already know what their opponent is going to do. This makes a lightsaber battle more like acrobatic chess than a conventional sword fight.

As for turning off your opponent's lightsaber... I want you to, first of all, think hard about getting your hand all the way to the hilt of your opponent's weapon without losing it. Then, I want you to forget about that because you've got the force and who needs hands anyway? I imagine there's a tiny force battle going on during every lightsaber battle where each person is trying to deactivate their opponent's 'saber with the force, while preventing their own 'saber from being deactivated. I bet the on/off switch is specifically designed to be easier to hold on than turn off for this very reason...
 

CaptainMarvelous

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Zachary Amaranth said:
CaptainMarvelous said:
That is true! In fact, thinking about it, we could have done a lot worse than a Cross Guard

...
I'm 90% sure this isn't just fan art.
You had Gungan Jedi AND Sith, so even if that is fan art, there really were EU equivalents.

You know, back when the WotC Star Wars RPG came out, I played a Gungan Jedi as a joke. I should have known it would have ended up happening.
HA! Awesome.

Real question now: Are we sure that guy with the Cross-Guard Saber is a human? I'm holding out for a Wookie Sith Lord
 

Kahani

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Verlander said:
What it ultimately boils down to, is that if it needs defending, it's bad design. People accepted lightsabers off the bat, whether they were right to do so or not.
Very much this. People were fine when lightsabres were first shown. Quite a bit more than fine, in fact. People were fine when we got silly double-ended ones, accepting that however impractical it might look, it at least looked cool. People were fine with people playing around with two, and sometimes even more, lightsabres. People have been fine when it was decided they could cut through bulkheads, be thrown around, block lightning, and all kinds of other things that were never shown originally.

So when you show a brand new lightsabre and the overwhelming reaction is "Hang on, that looks really stupid", there's a problem. It doesn't matter what arguments you might try to make in its defence, whether based on real sword fighting, obscure lore that Disney has already officially thrown out, or whatever else, the mere fact that such arguments are needed in the first place is the problem. It doesn't matter how well you might be able to defend it, the simple fact is that until now lightsabres have never needed defending at all.

Kenjitsuka said:
As an avid fan of all blades for decades I cannot accept the Jedi or Sith wielding those things and not immediately pushing down/forward on blocking and slicing off the enemies hand/fingers.
There's a reason the Jedi Knight series is colloquially known as the Hand Amputation Simulator series.

Radoh said:
this is not a weapon that's going to lead to a dumb choreographed 'swing the blade all around you as you cartwheel through the air' nonsense like the prequels.
I admire your optimism.
 

Something Amyss

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CaptainMarvelous said:
HA! Awesome.

Real question now: Are we sure that guy with the Cross-Guard Saber is a human? I'm holding out for a Wookie Sith Lord
Chewbacca's epic heel turn.
 

Baresark

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I just think the design choice is ugly and just as impractical as any lightsaber. People arguing for "reasons" that it's no good... well they are just being obtuse.
 

Senare

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I think the problem is not with having a crossguard as such, but with the base of the crossguard being vulnerable to cuts.

Competent swordsmen are unlikely to hit themselves with their own crossguard, as explained here:
 

Johnny Novgorod

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These articles are so pointless. The only reason there's a new lightsaber is to launch a new line of toys, and that's the only explanation you need.
 

Dollabillyall

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The greatest criticism besides that it looks retarded is not that you will kill yourself with it. It is that a lightsaber would slice through the T frame of the crossguard, rather than being stopped by the plasma part. In no case whatsoever does that design have any chance of succeeding in its intentional purpose of guarding the hands.

Also, I think it's imperative to note that very many people are expecting the sequel trilogy to be horrible, find JJ Abrams to be a complete hack and have zero intention of considering 7,8,9 to be canon or worthy of being considered "real" star wars movies. That idea might be strengthened by the random little changes to iconic parts of the series like the saber crossguard that will just be dismissed as crap regardless of any substantial debate.
 

Not Lord Atkin

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No! Bad scientist! you don't defend a position by discrediting the entire argument. You didn't say a single word in defense of the two side-blades. The fact that disbelief is being suspended for lightsabers as a concept does not mean it has to be suspended for everything surrounding them. Suspension of disbelief is not a constant. It has a limit and it's fairly clear why the weird cross blade thing brings quite a few people closer to that limit than lightsabers themselves would. Don't diminish the value of the discussion by declaring that the entire premise is bollocks and therefore you're right. It's an interesting intellectual exercise if nothing else. Just like attempting to apply evolutionary principles to large fire-breathing reptiles would be. It's also fun.

Argue your point properly next time or you'll get slapped with a rolled up newspaper.

Also, there is nothing preventing lightsaber users form making the emitter heavier than the rest of the hilt, thus simulating the weight balance distribution of a sword. To see what I mean, grab a mallet or a hammer just underneath the heavy bit and swing it around a bit while trying not to point the top part at your face. it's much easier than doing the same thing with a flashlight, isn't it? Plus, don't discount the large amount of fighting styles developed within the star wars universe specifically for use with lightsabers. To give you an example of real world weapons that seem incredibly dangerous and impractical to an inexperienced user, look at urumi, the long, whip-like blade used by kalaripayattu practitioners. Not so impractical if you've sunk enough training into it.
 

V4Viewtiful

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You guys are forgetting a key part of Jedi lore, Jedi and Sith (traditionally) construct their own light sabers as well, They could be weighted or shaped in all sorts of ways to be comfortable or suit their preference.

During the first Star Wars, Luke could be strong enough with the force to naturally handle the weapon which he did. We know since the second trilogy the kids didn't move that much when training with lightsabers because they where relying on the force. Plus don't lightsabers turn off when the weilder is disarmed? That's a cool safety feature.

Also are lightsabers weightless (the blade I mean), plasma has weight and I've read with the right power source it could work
the idea that only those that use the force can handle a lightsaber safely is absolutely fine because otherwise anyone could use them and stops them being iconic.

So I have to ask why isn't "the force" a good enough answer?

actually if the hilt had one blade I think it wouldn't be soo bad. :)
 

Fdzzaigl

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Yes you can always explain everything away in fiction. But no this is not a cool design, because it's not necessary to add more "cool" stuff to make a weapon like the lightsaber "cooler". It's a laser blade that cuts through almost everything, it doesn't need to be cooler.

Furthermore, no this is not an improvement to defence. It doesn't even look defensive in a "suspension of disbelief" kind of way. Because the metal "emitters" of the blade actually protrude from the main hilt. Which is pointless as your opponent can still slice through the metal part easily and you've now got arcs of superheated plasma pointing towards you.
 

RJ Dalton

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Thunderous Cacophony said:
RJ Dalton said:
snip about trailer shots
Well, they did finish principal photography about a month ago; it's possible that things look off because they rushed the various layers of editing and minute correction in order to have the trailer out this early.
It could very well be that. And I hope it is. Despite what some people think, my philosophy isn't "hate everything on principle," it's more "hope for the best, expect the worst." And as much as I love Star Wars, I would like it if a new Star Wars movie came out that I liked, but I don't expect it.

You know what the Sith scene reminds me of? Where he walks in and then shows off his "look at how cool it has three blades OMG!!!"? It reminds me of that scene in Ghost Rider where you see the bad guy for the first time. Where he just walks up to the camera and goes "RAWR! I'M SCARY!!!" That's what really bothers me about that scene in the trailer. I can't imagine any other context in a movie for a scene like that because of how the scene is shot and framed.

And, to be honest, I'll bet most of the objections to the three blades at this point are really just because we've all become jaded with fancy lightsabers because of how George Lucas overused them to the point that they lost that feeling of being unique and interesting. If the prequels had never happened (or been good), the light-claymore probably wouldn't have made such a bad impact on audiences. You'd still get a few people arguing against the functionality of it, but they'd probably be far more in the minority.

And, honestly, that's kind of a valid argument from the personal perspective. It may not be objective, but with how much the enjoyment of a movie comes down to personal emotional response, I do think it is kind of a bad idea to be doing that now. The movie really ought to play back the lightsaber stuff, because Star Wars now needs to do a lot of work to restore the lightsaber's mystique. And the first step to that is not shoving it in our faces all the time.
 

the7ofswords

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CrystalShadow said:
I don't really understand the reasoning of the 'lightsaber blades are weightless' group.

Sure, an attempt to guess at how they might work in reality would imply it, but EVERYTHING shown onscreen (and many things stated in background material) show otherwise.

Lightsaber blades have quite a bit of momentum. They are hard to swing. If anything, they are blade-heavy, given how they behave in a fight...

So arguing that they are hilt-heavy contradicts every piece of visual evidence we have of their use.

How then is this argument so common? Is it based on some reasoning from real-world physics?

OK, sure. But remember there is basically no practical way using real known physics to even create a weapon that behaves like a light-saber in even it's basic operation.

Sorry. But a flashlight is NOT a good analogy for the weight and balance of a light-saber. Look at any fight scene and this should be immediately obvious.

Yet it is still the goto argument of anyone that feels the need to discuss the combat implications of the weapon...

Surely, in the absence of any actual real-world reference point for the technology, the best place to start is with their observed behaviour, and work backwards from there?

After all, you don't do science by choosing a model, then, when that model conflicts with the available evidence, declaring the model correct, while throwing out all the contradicting evidence.

And the evidence, suggests a large amount of momentum involved in swinging a light-saber around... Which is the complete opposite of the argument being used.
I absolutely agree!

Initially, lightsabers were supposed to be heavy. If you watch the OT, notice how it is always wielded two-handed. George Lucas insisted on this, because he said a lightsaber was supposed to have a lot of weight to it. (Compare it to a hand-and-a-half or bastard sword, not a big two-handed 15th century Highland Claymore or a light-weight rapier.)

He clearly threw that concept out the window, though, when making the prequels. At that point, he went for a more flashy, "Errol Flynn" style of combat.

Personally, I like the idea of the blade being made of some sort of plasma held in a heavy magnetic field. It may not make a lot of scientific sense as we understand it, but Star Wars isn't really science fiction, anyway. It's really more like fantasy set in space.

As for light quillons, why not? Clearly these are meant to be used in at least a partially-offensive way. If your only concern was protection of the hand, why not just use one of the many force-fields that have been proven throughout the series to be resistant to lightsaber blades?

And finally, I like how everyone's assuming the figure holding the "tri-saber" in the teaser must be a Sith Lord of some sort. What if he or she isn't? What if this person just happened to pick up a red lightsaber? (I suspect it's an early prototype saber from the distant past,) And, if we're guessing s/he must be Sith due to the black cloak, well ... does anyone remember Luke's outfit in Return of the Jedi?
 

Kyr Knightbane

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Johnny Novgorod said:
These articles are so pointless. The only reason there's a new lightsaber is to launch a new line of toys, and that's the only explanation you need.

Precisely. Star Wars is less about the lore and more about "Hey, how many action figures can we make?!


+2 to you good sir for summing up my thoughts
 

Ark of the Covetor

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Rhykker said:
Star Wars: This Is How You Defend The Ridiculous Crossguard Lightsaber

To anyone saying that the crossguard lightsaber from the Star Wars: The Force Awakens trailer is impractical, this is my response.

Read Full Article
Here is my response to your response; realism != internal consistency.

Argument debunked, good day.
 

Xenominim

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People whining about the logic are silly. There's no logic in anything in Star Wars, it's fantasy, not hard sci-fi. Most of the series tech make no practical sense, Star Destroyers with big glaring bridges as weakpoints and shield generators on the outside, massive Death Star filled with more people than you would ever need to employ against a single target, droid armies wiped out when a single ship falls, stormtroopers beaten by teddy bears with rocks, colossal, slow, only forward firing useless AT-AT walkers from Empire Strikes Back that can be beaten with some rope. The series is full of stuff like this and we love and accept it because it looks cool. That's all it's supposed to do and it does that well enough.