StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty Will Contain Protoss "Mini-Campaign"

[John Funk]

Ah, well that makes me want it even less actually, since the mechanics of the original Starcraft were bloody archaic even at the time of release and I only ever played it for the story. I would certainly hope Blizzard has at least made some concessions to modern RTS design principles in the sequel, but then they didn't do that with Warcraft III either so I have a suspicion my hopes will be dashed on the jagged rocks of reality once again.

As for the expansion pack question, you do realize the original Starcraft already has two expansions, right? In fact it has three: Insurrection, Retribution, and Brood War. Anyways, Brood War was essentially an entire new game's worth of campaign content for all three factions, in addition to the three campaigns present in the main game.

So no, it's not like that at all, it's like they divided the original Starcraft into three pieces and sold the second and third campaigns to us as expansion packs and Brood War was never even developed, let alone the other two. Expansion packs are supposed to be things you get in addition to the core game, but Blizzard already flat out stated that these 'expansions' were just "Starcraft II" until they decided to chop the game up into pieces and sell it to us three times.

And to that, I quite rightly cry foul.

Does a game have to reinvent the wheel to be good? I enjoyed Company of Heroes and Dawn of War (II) as much as the next guy, and I appreciate what Relic is trying to do, but SC2 has a fluidity of play that those games can only dream of. It's incredibly intuitive for an RTS, and plays like StarCraft - but with more stuff there, and yes it has concessions to modern RTS design principles, MBS and all that.

WC3 wasn't particularly innovative, but it was a great game. SC2 won't be innovative, it's just really, really, really, really good.

And I'm not counting the tiny little bonus campaigns that the other guys worked on, I'm talking about a full-blown expansion pack.

StarCraft had 30 missions. Brood War had... I don't think it was a full 30, was it? It's been a while.

Wings of Liberty will have 30 missions. Heart of the Swarm will have 30 missions. Legacy of the Void will have 30 missions. Each of them will be their own self-contained story.

From talking to members of the team that's working on SC2, here's how it went down: Over years of development, the team had a lot they wanted to do with SC2. Unfortunately, they started realizing that there was a lot on their plate, but it was all stuff they really wanted to do. So their options were:

1.) Do everything they wanted, but at the cost of having a massive, massive game that wouldn't be done for years and years and years. They wanted to ship some time before 2014, after all.

2.) Cut what they wanted to keep in, resulting in a final product that wouldn't be everything they hoped it would be.

3.) Include everything, but spread it out so that the game could still come out on a reasonable time, and put the rest of the content in expansion packs, but price them accordingly.

If you look at it like that, it's really a no-brainer. I'm sorry, but you're not "quite rightly" calling foul. If each game were just going to have the 10 campaigns, then you'd certainly be right. But when each game is going to have a game's worth of content, I don't see the problem.

 

[Aunel]

These news are old. Like, half a year old, if not more. I heard about this "mini-campaign" very long ago.

And i don't give a shit anyway.

what's Protoss?
no seriously what are they?

Space elves. Somewhat like Eldar, maybe a bit less grimdark.

that's cool,
Eldar are awesome

 

[Callex]

I dont care too much for the campaign or the competetive multiplayer. It's the editor that will make this game. No other rts can compare when it comes to the power of the world editor.

 

[Asehujiko]

Only in the sense that both Protoss and the Eldar use psionics, follow a strict system of mental conditioning designed to protect from the dangers of said psionics, and have a darker sub-race that rejects those controls.

You mean like every single space/fantasy warrior order in history? Because 40k does cliches too it doesn't mean 40k owns it.

 

[Sebenko]

I would likewise be happy about that, but the bit where they made us wait over 10 years for a sequel and then decided to split it into 3 pieces has pretty much killed any remaining interest I have for anything Blizzard does these days. You had your chance Blizzard! My RTS needs are ably met by Relic's awesome Dawn of War games now, and I'm never going back!

If I buy Starcraft II at all it will be when it hits bargain-bin price levels.

Your loss, mate.

I thoroughly enjoyed Dawn of War 2 - I really, really did. Relic is a very talented developer, and they do RTSes well.

And then I played StarCraft II at BlizzCon, and it really knocked my socks off. By far the most fun I've had with an RTS since, well... the original StarCraft, I guess. Besides, the whole "three pieces" argument has really lost a bit of its impact, I feel - it's the same as if the original SC had two expansion packs instead of just one.

Yeah, but those boss fights sucked more than me on a drunken weekend.

 

[Nouw]

I'd love to comment more of my culutural side of playing SCII but that would be breaking the rules.

OT: StarCraft 2. Hype will sell it. I bet South Korea is going to be able to buy it pretty soon. They will be crazy about it. I can't wait to see the look on everyone's faces when they realise the cost of each game.

More on topic though, yipee. Protoss in Terran Game probably links to the Terran Campaign.

 

[Amnestic]

StarCraft had 30 missions. Brood War had... I don't think it was a full 30, was it? It's been a while.

As I recall, Brood War had 26 missions (8, 8 and 10 for the three campaigns) plus the secret 27th mission with Zeratul and Duran.

I can't wait to see the look on everyone's faces when they realise the cost of each game.

...the same as any other full game?

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

Only in the sense that both Protoss and the Eldar use psionics, follow a strict system of mental conditioning designed to protect from the dangers of said psionics, and have a darker sub-race that rejects those controls.

You mean like every single space/fantasy warrior order in history? Because 40k does cliches too it doesn't mean 40k owns it.

No, not really, and arguing that Starcraft wasn't heavily inspired by 40K is an argument you will not win on this here interweb. The parallels between the Protoss backstory and that of the Eldar go far beyond a simple smattering of tropes they have 'coincidentally' share, and don't even get me started on the Zerg (Tyranid) aspect.

Blizzard did interesting things with them to differentiate their new universe, but it takes willful myopia not to see the extremely obvious source of their original inspiration.

 

[korika]

The first Warcraft game was originally intended to be a warhammer fantasy game, thats why the orcs in warcraft and the orcs in fantasy are so similar.

 

[Rack]

I'm not going to cry foul over Starcraft II, but at the same time I'm probably not going to get it. 30 missions is a fine amount of content for an RTS, but 30 Terran missions seems a lot like going into a restaurant and being given a colossal starter, but no main course or dessert. Given that this is Blizzards first game in 8 years and WC3 wasn't exactly stellar I don't anticipate the quality being high enough to excuse the lack of variety.

 

[MrSnugglesworth]

I'm not going to cry foul over Starcraft II, but at the same time I'm probably not going to get it. 30 missions is a fine amount of content for an RTS, but 30 Terran missions seems a lot like going into a restaurant and being given a colossal starter, but no main course or dessert. Given that this is Blizzards first game in 8 years and WC3 wasn't exactly stellar I don't anticipate the quality being high enough to excuse the lack of variety.

I think WoW counts as a game.


Just saying.


OT: I am excited. I did not get the first Starcraft, but god damn was it fun at my friends house. I am looking forward to this and will get it unless they give a release date on Diablo 3 before it comes out.

 

[GothmogII]

Only in the sense that both Protoss and the Eldar use psionics, follow a strict system of mental conditioning designed to protect from the dangers of said psionics, and have a darker sub-race that rejects those controls.

You mean like every single space/fantasy warrior order in history? Because 40k does cliches too it doesn't mean 40k owns it.

No, not really, and arguing that Starcraft wasn't heavily inspired by 40K is an argument you will not win on this here interweb. The parallels between the Protoss backstory and that of the Eldar go far beyond a simple smattering of tropes they have 'coincidentally' share, and don't even get me started on the Zerg (Tyranid) aspect.

Blizzard did interesting things with them to differentiate their new universe, but it takes willful myopia not to see the extremely obvious source of their original inspiration.

See: Aliens. (Or Heinlein's Starship Troopers if you're more inclined for something older).

As for the Eldar...ELVES IN SPAAAAAACE!

Personally, I always figured the 40k universe took a lot of inspiration from 2000AD. You know, Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog and Rogue Trooper for example. But, then everything really just felt like they just took regular Warhammer and jazzed it up with some hard sci-fi.

As for -where- Blizzard got their inspiration from, well, you're probably right. But...that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing as the tone of a lot the 'Blizzard ripped off Warhammer!!' posts seem to imply.

 

[John Funk]

Only in the sense that both Protoss and the Eldar use psionics, follow a strict system of mental conditioning designed to protect from the dangers of said psionics, and have a darker sub-race that rejects those controls.

You mean like every single space/fantasy warrior order in history? Because 40k does cliches too it doesn't mean 40k owns it.

No, not really, and arguing that Starcraft wasn't heavily inspired by 40K is an argument you will not win on this here interweb. The parallels between the Protoss backstory and that of the Eldar go far beyond a simple smattering of tropes they have 'coincidentally' share, and don't even get me started on the Zerg (Tyranid) aspect.

Blizzard did interesting things with them to differentiate their new universe, but it takes willful myopia not to see the extremely obvious source of their original inspiration.

See: Aliens. (Or Heinlein's Starship Troopers if you're more inclined for something older).

As for the Eldar...ELVES IN SPAAAAAACE!

Personally, I always figured the 40k universe took a lot of inspiration from 2000AD. You know, Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog and Rogue Trooper for example. But, then everything really just felt like they just took regular Warhammer and jazzed it up with some hard sci-fi.

As for -where- Blizzard got their inspiration from, well, you're probably right. But...that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing as the tone of a lot the 'Blizzard ripped off Warhammer!!' posts seem to imply.

I think you mean soft sci-fi. 40k's as soft as they come.

AND THEN EVERYONE FOUGHT EVERYWHERE FOREVER

 

[Zer_]

Only in the sense that both Protoss and the Eldar use psionics, follow a strict system of mental conditioning designed to protect from the dangers of said psionics, and have a darker sub-race that rejects those controls.

You mean like every single space/fantasy warrior order in history? Because 40k does cliches too it doesn't mean 40k owns it.

No, not really, and arguing that Starcraft wasn't heavily inspired by 40K is an argument you will not win on this here interweb. The parallels between the Protoss backstory and that of the Eldar go far beyond a simple smattering of tropes they have 'coincidentally' share, and don't even get me started on the Zerg (Tyranid) aspect.

Blizzard did interesting things with them to differentiate their new universe, but it takes willful myopia not to see the extremely obvious source of their original inspiration.

Yeah? And the 40k universe took inspiration from even older sci-fi. Big whoop. Blizzard was originally developing a Warhammer game, but games workshop dropped the contract, and Blizzard thus renamed it to WarCraft. They then made WC2, and eventually SC. They basically made a 40K game better then any actual 40K game that came out. To me that's just Blizzard sticking it to those who ditched them.

 

[GothmogII]

Only in the sense that both Protoss and the Eldar use psionics, follow a strict system of mental conditioning designed to protect from the dangers of said psionics, and have a darker sub-race that rejects those controls.

You mean like every single space/fantasy warrior order in history? Because 40k does cliches too it doesn't mean 40k owns it.

No, not really, and arguing that Starcraft wasn't heavily inspired by 40K is an argument you will not win on this here interweb. The parallels between the Protoss backstory and that of the Eldar go far beyond a simple smattering of tropes they have 'coincidentally' share, and don't even get me started on the Zerg (Tyranid) aspect.

Blizzard did interesting things with them to differentiate their new universe, but it takes willful myopia not to see the extremely obvious source of their original inspiration.

See: Aliens. (Or Heinlein's Starship Troopers if you're more inclined for something older).

As for the Eldar...ELVES IN SPAAAAAACE!

Personally, I always figured the 40k universe took a lot of inspiration from 2000AD. You know, Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog and Rogue Trooper for example. But, then everything really just felt like they just took regular Warhammer and jazzed it up with some hard sci-fi.

As for -where- Blizzard got their inspiration from, well, you're probably right. But...that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing as the tone of a lot the 'Blizzard ripped off Warhammer!!' posts seem to imply.

I think you mean soft sci-fi. 40k's as soft as they come.

AND THEN EVERYONE FOUGHT EVERYWHERE FOREVER

x3 Thank you for that my good Lord Cake. Yes, maybe it would be more correct to say 'gritty' rather than hard. Gritty as in the hard bits you find in your porridge. Still, I like me Orks, a little bit of joyous anarchy in an often overly grimdark world.

 

[Gylukios]

Only in the sense that both Protoss and the Eldar use psionics, follow a strict system of mental conditioning designed to protect from the dangers of said psionics, and have a darker sub-race that rejects those controls.

You mean like every single space/fantasy warrior order in history? Because 40k does cliches too it doesn't mean 40k owns it.

No, not really, and arguing that Starcraft wasn't heavily inspired by 40K is an argument you will not win on this here interweb. The parallels between the Protoss backstory and that of the Eldar go far beyond a simple smattering of tropes they have 'coincidentally' share, and don't even get me started on the Zerg (Tyranid) aspect.

Blizzard did interesting things with them to differentiate their new universe, but it takes willful myopia not to see the extremely obvious source of their original inspiration.

See: Aliens. (Or Heinlein's Starship Troopers if you're more inclined for something older).

As for the Eldar...ELVES IN SPAAAAAACE!

Personally, I always figured the 40k universe took a lot of inspiration from 2000AD. You know, Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog and Rogue Trooper for example. But, then everything really just felt like they just took regular Warhammer and jazzed it up with some hard sci-fi.

As for -where- Blizzard got their inspiration from, well, you're probably right. But...that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing as the tone of a lot the 'Blizzard ripped off Warhammer!!' posts seem to imply.

I think you mean soft sci-fi. 40k's as soft as they come.

AND THEN EVERYONE FOUGHT EVERYWHERE FOREVER

I think people are confusing 'dark' sci-fi with 'hard' sci-fi again.

 

[Asehujiko]

No, not really, and arguing that Starcraft wasn't heavily inspired by 40K is an argument you will not win on this here interweb. The parallels between the Protoss backstory and that of the Eldar go far beyond a simple smattering of tropes they have 'coincidentally' share, and don't even get me started on the Zerg (Tyranid) aspect.

Both of which are inspired by starship troopers. Once again, 40k did not invent it's cliches.

 

[Rack]

I think WoW counts as a game.


Just saying.

Really? I don't see the resemblance to be honest. Sure it's a social space that a game could exist in but it's more of a colossal chat room than anything else, there's not really anything in it that could constitute gameplay and nothing I could see that would be transferable experience in making a game.

 

[Eldarion]

I would likewise be happy about that, but the bit where they made us wait over 10 years for a sequel and then decided to split it into 3 pieces has pretty much killed any remaining interest I have for anything Blizzard does these days. You had your chance Blizzard! My RTS needs are ably met by Relic's awesome Dawn of War games now, and I'm never going back!

If I buy Starcraft II at all it will be when it hits bargain-bin price levels.

Your loss, mate.

I thoroughly enjoyed Dawn of War 2 - I really, really did. Relic is a very talented developer, and they do RTSes well.

And then I played StarCraft II at BlizzCon, and it really knocked my socks off. By far the most fun I've had with an RTS since, well... the original StarCraft, I guess. Besides, the whole "three pieces" argument has really lost a bit of its impact, I feel - it's the same as if the original SC had two expansion packs instead of just one.

If you get the human campaign, can you play multiplayer as the other 2 races or are me and my friends gonna have to pay for 3 games EACH in order to play all 3 factions?

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

As for -where- Blizzard got their inspiration from, well, you're probably right. But...that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing as the tone of a lot the 'Blizzard ripped off Warhammer!!' posts seem to imply.

Never claimed it was, was just suggesting there was no need to get all defensive over the comparative originality of the Protoss. Being rather heavily inspired by the Eldar doesn't stop them from being completely badass after all.

Yeah? And the 40k universe took inspiration from even older sci-fi. Big whoop. Blizzard was originally developing a Warhammer game, but games workshop dropped the contract, and Blizzard thus renamed it to WarCraft. They then made WC2, and eventually SC. They basically made a 40K game better then any actual 40K game that came out. To me that's just Blizzard sticking it to those who ditched them.

Was I championing Warhammer 40,000 as a shining bastion of complete and total originality, arriving from on high? No? Well then you don't really need to tell me 40K was inspired by other stuff - everything is inspired by something, somewhere down the line - there are no truly original ideas, just new ways to tackle old ones.