Steam, banning players for being generous?

[Chibz]

SNIP

In your example I can be upset about it all I'd like. Except I'd have no legal recourse. They aren't breaking the law.

I don`t have experience with laws in other countries, but it`s not safe to assume that
a) there arent any
b) Steam is just dicking around and griefing people
There is probably a good reason why they are doing this, and people tend to settle on the easier to comprehend one.

Like I said, Steam is more just keeping publishers happy. At the cost of consumer rights, of course.

 

[Chibz]

Import taxation, for one. Second, they were circumventing prices, which I'm pretty sure is NOT something you should expect the company to be ok with. If they mark a price for a certain country to be something, they probably did so for a reason and will be pissed when you don't pay the right price.

1. Tariffs. The neat thing about tariffs is that it's highly dependant on the value of the goods. These goods are so low in value as to avoid this hornets nest altogether.

2. Actually... Steam doesn't set the prices. The publisher's do. Read one of my above points: Steam is simply trying to protect themselves from upset publishers. They're wrong, for an understandable reason. But at the end of the day they're still wrong.

Consumer Rights?
It`s not like they are starting some Standard Oil Monopoly, they just have region-specific pricing.

No, but region-specific pricing is highly dubious. There's a reason why most locations have laws against this.

Also, heaven forfend I expect people to raise ... logical points. That might actually give this discussion merit.

 

[GenericAmerican]

SNIP

In your example I can be upset about it all I'd like. Except I'd have no legal recourse. They aren't breaking the law.

I know, that's why I am not taking sides whether the Steam ban was right or wrong.

Legally, this isn't wrong. 'Morally'(don't know if that's the right word for this situation' I don't think it is.

EDIT: You know what? I'm done, I don't want to end up arguing over the interwebs.

 

[Chibz]

I know, that's why I am not taking sides whether the Steam ban was right or wrong.

Legally, this isn't wrong. 'Morally'(don't know if that's the right word for this situation' I don't think it is.

Steam actually can't fall back on the EULA. For reasons brought up... Ages ago in the discussion.

What we have instead is a bunch of rather livid Valve/Steam fans who don't ever want to admit that the corporation has done wrong. I mean valve could have secret facilities where they shoot babies full of heroin and valve fans would defend them for it.

 

[GenericAmerican]

I know, that's why I am not taking sides whether the Steam ban was right or wrong.

Legally, this isn't wrong. 'Morally'(don't know if that's the right word for this situation' I don't think it is.

Steam actually can't fall back on the EULA. For reasons brought up... Ages ago in the discussion.

What we have instead is a bunch of rather livid Valve/Steam fans who don't ever want to admit that the corporation has done wrong. I mean valve could have secret facilities where they shoot babies full of heroin and valve fans would defend them for it.

Not teh babiez!!! Anything but teh babiez!!!!

To sum up my viewpoint. The man did nothing illegal, but I don't think he should have done it in the first place. What else do you think will happen if you try and 'rip off' a company?

Sorry, I have nothing else to contribute to this discussion. But I will say I hate fan boys...especially CoD fan boys. Followed by xbox/ps3 fan boys. Then pc/console fan boys. But most of all I hate all the fighting between the groups.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Chibz]

The irony here is that I`ve never particularly enjoyed Valve games, nor do i use Steam at all.
We are just saying they are within their rights to do what they did, but not nessicarily "in the right".

Hopefully my shitty way of wording things will suffice.

The clause that lets them ban him (the "we reserve the right to ban you for whatever we want" clause) actually has no legal weight. They've gone so far out of their jurisdiction that they'd almost need binoculars to see it again.

Not teh babiez!!! Anything but teh babiez!!!!

To sum up my viewpoint. The man did nothing illegal, but I don't think he should have done it in the first place. What else do you think will happen if you try and 'rip off' a company?

Sorry, I have nothing else to contribute to this discussion. But I will say I hate fan boys...especially CoD fan boys. Followed by xbox/ps3 fan boys. Then pc/console fan boys. But most of all I hate all the fighting between the groups.

Can't we all just get along?

Like I said, I know it's not entirely Valve/Steam's fault for doing this. The publisher's are, ultimately, the ones who we should be burning at the stake. They set the prices, and they'd no-doubt push for Steam to do something about this whether or not Steam is in the right to do so.

I looked into it, by the way, he DID use a throw-away account. Which probably made the punishment far less severe. I mean he can just get ANOTHER throw-away account.

 

[Chibz]

I feel the same way about the RIAA.....

Things like the RIAA show that we not only have lost the key to the chains, but the captive is now the captive-taker. We are losing control of capitalism.

It's like wearing a nose-ring but forgetting that we put it there when we're being tugged around.

 

[GenericAmerican]

The clause that lets them ban him (the "we reserve the right to ban you for whatever we want" clause) actually has no legal weight. They've gone so far out of their jurisdiction that they'd almost need binoculars to see it again.



Like I said, I know it's not entirely Valve/Steam's fault for doing this. The publisher's are, ultimately, the ones who we should be burning at the stake. They set the prices, and they'd no-doubt push for Steam to do something about this whether or not Steam is in the right to do so.

I looked into it, by the way, he DID use a throw-away account. Which probably made the punishment far less severe. I mean he can just get ANOTHER throw-away account.

A throw away account...well at least he did the smart thing. If I'm going to rob a store, I wouldn't use my car as the getaway vehicle.

Soooo since this is a throwaway account, why does any of this matter? He could make another and do the same thing over again right? Unless Steam said eff you and banned his real account. Or his IP or something if they can do things like that.

I really have no qualms with steam since I don't download from them, I buy physical copies only. And not having to have the disk in the drive is a life saver(figuratively, I hope gaming doesn't kill me one day.) since my dvd-drive has gone too hell. (again figuratively...unless there is an electronics hell...full of water, dust, and error codes)

 

[Hargrimm]

Regarding the often mentioned, circumvented import tax:
(btw, It's in german, I couldn't find anything else)

Ich möchte Software in den USA bestellen. Muss ich dafür Zoll zahlen?

Bei der Einfuhr von Software kommt es darauf an, wie die Lieferung erfolgt.
Es ist nur dann ein Fall für den Zoll, wenn ein Gegenstand körperlich über die Außengrenze der Europäischen Gemeinschaft bewegt wird. Das heißt, wenn Programme aus dem Internet heruntergeladen werden, ist die Zollverwaltung nicht zuständig, da keine Waren sondern "nur" Daten bewegt werden. Anders verhält es sich, wenn die Software z.B. auf einer CD gespeichert ist und die CD eingeführt wird. In diesem Fall gelten die zollrechtlichen Vorschriften.

source: http://www.zoll.de/faq/postverkehr/postverkehr/index.html#post6

For all non-german speakers:
It basically says, that you have to pay taxes only when the data is on an imported storage device, such as a dvd, cd, usb etc.
If you download it, you don't pay taxes!

Hope that clears it up.

(Sorry, if the question about import tax has been anwsered already, I only read to page 4)

 

[GenericAmerican]

To sum up my viewpoint. The man did nothing illegal, but I don't think he should have done it in the first place. What else do you think will happen if you try and 'rip off' a company?

What gets me is that capitalism is essentially companies trying to rip off people. But if people try to rip off companies, oh noes, horrible.

I mean, let's be quite honest, when I rip off a corperation in any way, I consider it a victory, because I know they exist to get as much money out of me as possible. And before some Valve fanboy jumps in to tell me about how Valve aren't all for the money, have you seen TF2 lately?

No I haven't...I have only read about it and heard about it....I don't think I want to go back too it.

It uninstalled itself somehow about half a year back...and I never had the time to re-download it;; don't think I would want to either. I miss the first days...one set of weapons for each class, no hats...not all this stuff.

Oh and I have been playing since the game came out, minus this last year, and I still don't have one god d#%@%^ m(#&@# f&#*@( hat!

 

[GenericAmerican]

I sympathise. I didn't play for at least two years... then my friend got it and asked me to play with her, so I redownloaded.

Good Lord.

Microtransactions for hats? Are these people crazy? I only have one hat But damn I miss the old, simple days. Also Payload sucks.

I guess they have to make money since they keep breaking/unbalancing/updating the game...but paying money for a hat? An intangible item.

You know what? I don't hate Valve, or condemn them, because they are making money off it.

They found a way to make money of something that probably took an hour to throw together and doesn't psychically exist.

I applaud them, capitalism at work...also human stupidity at work. In fifty years someone will look back and go, "Wow I really paid money for a hat in a video game. *goes and cries*"

 

[GenericAmerican]

Oh, I'm not trying to demonise them. Hell, it's clearly working, good for them, and it's obvious it's only people with insanely disposible incomes giving their money away. But Valve aren't a philanthropic organisation, and we need to stop acting like they're updating our games ouut of the kindness of their hearts. And I swear to God that people will defend them in this thread just for being Valve. That's just sad.

I'm not saying you're demonizing them; If it seems like I think you are I apologize. And even if you were I wouldn't care. I love their games...but I am not what would be considered a fanboy.

I wonder why exactly people will jump in to defend a company, movie, or game? I have seen it with Valve, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo...those godawful Twilight movies, Call of Duty is a big one.

Do these people really feel the need to argue over the interwebs? About some company that doesn't even know you exist?

I don't like Call of Duty! I am indifferent about Xbox/Playstation, though I prefer Xbox. Pc over anything else. Medal of Honor wasn't great but it wasn't bad like everyone said it was. I hate twilight with a Passion, I liked Avatar even if it ripped off the script of dances with wolves.

If I said that anywhere else I would probably get flamed to all hell.

But if someone says something bad about anything I like, I usually don't start a typing war over the internet. I might say something, but usually I just go 'to each his own' and leave it be.

 

[Dys]

Not so much "being generous" as deliberately trying to cheat the system. Valve and the publisher may still be making money off of it, but that's like jacking someone's car, but leaving them $10.

What?

It's like someone offering to sell me their car for $80, and offering to sell it to someone else for $60, then the person takes up the $60 offer and buys it as a gift for the first person. It's not cheating anything and it's most certainly not tantamount to theft. All it is, is valve having a cry because their greedy price hike has been (both legally and morally) circumvented.

 

[GenericAmerican]

It's weird, aye? Fanboys are a strange creature. Also, Medal of Honor really was that bad It was terrible. Man, I want my two hours back (awesome campaign length too). I never watched Avatar because I know I won't like it. What gets me is people who watch things they know they want like, why do that? Crazy.

I guess it's self-validation. Just a really sad form of it.

It probably is just self validation. AND MEDLE O HONUR WER GOODZ!!!! ARRRGHHHHH...jk. It is one series I am a big fan of. Even MoH airborne...Games are too damn short these days.

I think fanboys go like this.

I spent $50 bucks on this, it's not great but I don't want to look like an idiot so I will pretend to like it.
Or

Everyone else likes it, so I have to also so I can fit in.

or

SOMEONE HAS DIFFERENT VIEWS/TASTES/AND OPINIONS THAN ME!! DOES NOT COMPUTE!!! FLAMEFLAMEFLAMEFLAMEARGUEFLAMEFLAME

^I think that is why there are fanboys.

I was suckered into buying Black Ops by a friend turned game stop employee. From day one I regretted buying it, and my friend flamed me for speaking ill of the game.

I think the thread is getting off topic

 

[RowdyRodimus]

If it didn't cost Gabe a few extra Double Big Mac Extra Value Meals for his mid-morning snack he wouldn't have gotten banned. It's all about money, no matter how much people like to pretend Valve is a not for profit charity organization.

Someone outsmarted them and it pissed them off, end of story.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

Taxes are levied even against private individuals. This is in law. Whether the government actually exercises this law is another thing; usually its cost-prohibitive to do so.

Chibz, I appreciate that you obviously have an emotional attachment to this issue for whatever reason, but I'd submit that your argument would be received more favourably if you did not make an ad hominen attack in every second sentence.