my advice is don't try and cheat valve out of money just go somewhere else. Valve is a powerful force you wouldn't like them when their angry.
Its more in the number of people he was doing it with and the frequency at which he was doing it. Anyone could have figured it out that they weren't just gifts. There are clauses in most taxes to account for gifts. But at a certain point they can no longer be considered gifts, and become taxable.Weslebear said:That is kind of ridiculous, I suppose they count it as importing without import tax but Steam should really make it clearer in the ToS because I can imagine a fair amount of people will do this and get banned.
Shudder, the thought of losing access to my Steam games, not cool bro.
Its a grey area, a loop whole, in this time when everything is getting dearer this is a way to legally get something cheaper without waiting for sales. Also all the relivent tax is payed for in the transaction, and you got to admit it is better than downloading the game for free.Trolldor said:Gifting is fine.willsham45 said:He is not doing anything wrong and if there is nothing in the terms and conditions then it should be fine, I would also point the blame on steam for allowing people to gift to other regions.
Subverting tax laws by gifting people and having them pay you the equivalent is not.
And I'll be sure to go there to see their widely diverse video gaming experience composed of adventure games and older adventure games.Sgt. Sykes said:It's also sad/funny that this is a US company screwing up Europeans.
Guess what European companies do? Well, look at gog.com. That's Polish.
Yep, Europe rules.
The way I figure the 'gift' system is thus:Staskala said:VAT also applies to electronical commerce, so I honestly don't get the problem.
In fact, it rises questions about the legitimate way of using the gift system:
When gifting a foreign steam user, does Valve pay the VAT?
The American user pays the American price and a European user gets the game for free, so where does the VAT go?
Unless I'm missing something it has to be paid by the distributor.
If so, the ban is not only legally but also morally justified, since Valve would have to pay for your "generousity".
If that's the case, then why don't they simply ban gifting overseas entirely? It's rather obvious that no tax is being collected on this. It's just them overcharging people overseas.Staskala said:VAT also applies to electronical commerce, so I honestly don't get the problem.
In fact, it rises questions about the legitimate way of using the gift system:
When gifting a foreign steam user, does Valve pay the VAT?
The American user pays the American price and a European user gets the game for free, so where does the VAT go?
Unless I'm missing something it has to be paid by the distributor.
If so, the ban is not only legally but also morally justified, since Valve would have to pay for your "generousity".
Do you pay the VAT when purchasing something in the US and then mailing it to someone in the EU? Didn't think so, you're only paying import fees.Staskala said:VAT also applies to electronical commerce, so I honestly don't get the problem.
In fact, it rises questions about the legitimate way of using the gift system:
When gifting a foreign steam user, does Valve pay the VAT?
The American user pays the American price and a European user gets the game for free, so where does the VAT go?
Unless I'm missing something it has to be paid by the distributor.
If so, the ban is not only legally but also morally justified, since Valve would have to pay for your "generousity".
The difference between your situation and amergift's situation is that your involve gifting and his involves reselling gifts. We can reasonably assume that Value went after amergift due to the fact amergift was receiving payments for his "gifts."Freemon said:this all sounds like crap since I've done this before.
And before doing it i actually contacted Steam support to know if there would be an issue in purchasing games to send to US friends and vice versa. Steam support told me there is no problem in that whatsoever. I've done it countless times and so have friends in the US done it for me and more people in the EU.
I got around 80 games on steam. around 20 were gifts from the same guy in the US and he still has his account.
This story doesn't look very real.
Valve's mantra has for the most part been to avoid punishing legitimate customers based off of the actions of a few self righteous wankers. I bought Magicka for a fellow Escapist member overseas, and I'm glad I did it. It's a fun little game.Chibz said:If that's the case, then why don't they simply ban gifting overseas entirely? It's rather obvious that no tax is being collected on this. It's just them overcharging people overseas.Staskala said:VAT also applies to electronical commerce, so I honestly don't get the problem.
In fact, it rises questions about the legitimate way of using the gift system:
When gifting a foreign steam user, does Valve pay the VAT?
The American user pays the American price and a European user gets the game for free, so where does the VAT go?
Unless I'm missing something it has to be paid by the distributor.
If so, the ban is not only legally but also morally justified, since Valve would have to pay for your "generousity".
It's just like people in canuckistan getting 200 fewer Microsoft Jewgolds per $20. We (often) pay tax on this, too. It's just them ripping us off.
Incorrect. If you transfer goods from one region - whether it be a state in a nation or internationally, and you sell those goods to another entity, you are legally bound to collect the tax appropriate value of the goods and then deliver that money to the government. It doesn't matter whether you are working with physical merchandise or digital licenses. In either case, you would be committing tax evasion.Sgt. Sykes said:If this was with retail copies, or just about any physical merchandise or even services, this would be 100% legal.
But, EULAs, licenses, digital distributions and Steam. There you have it.
No it isn't...at all...Blue_vision said:Not so much "being generous" as deliberately trying to cheat the system. Valve and the publisher may still be making money off of it, but that's like jacking someone's car, but leaving them $10.
From the "Charges to Your Credit Card" section of the Steam Terms of Service:willsham45 said:He is not doing anything wrong and if there is nothing in the terms and conditions then it should be fine, I would also point the blame on steam for allowing people to gift to other regions.
amergift gifted the game, and then received payments for these "gifted" games. He created a system where people could avoid their government's taxes. In doing this, he committed a crime.If your use of Steam is subject to any type of use or sales tax, then Valve may also charge you for any such taxes, in addition to the Subscription or other fees published in the Rules of Use. The European Union VAT ( ?VAT ?) tax amounts collected by Valve reflect VAT due on the value of any Software or Subscription as well as import VAT collected which is to be paid to the tax authorities for the importation of Merchandise.