Steam hits 8.5 million concurrent online users

[RhombusHatesYou]

That is why when some developers PR bullshit modding out the window with "Herp Derp Modders cant understandz ze engine" I get quite annoyed.

I get a laugh thinking of all the bedroom coders who've just taken the statement as a challenge.

So which annoyed you more, iD's "our megatextures are just too mega" or DICE's "the production pipeline is too expensive and high tech for modders"?

 

[NPC009]

The PCs biggest strength IMO is modding. Not power, not user friendliness, not cheapness even. It is modding.
That is why when some developers PR bullshit modding out the window with "Herp Derp Modders cant understandz ze engine" I get quite annoyed. Especially if what they have done... is not that technologically impressive.

But modding is only relevant to communities surrounding certain games and perhaps hardcore gamers as a whole, isn't it? The product as published seems to be good enough for most people.

 

[Roxor]

8.5 million concurrent users, huh? Well, that's nice for you, Valve. Now how about you ban the use of third-party accounts and DRM for games sold on Steam so we have fewer headaches, hmm?

 

[Tayh]

Ugh. Can we all at least learn what the actual definition of 'monopoly' is before we start throwing the word around on a whim?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

I mean, really. In a world where Origin, Uplay, GoG, GMG, Impulse, D2D, and dozens to hundreds of other store-fronts and digital distribution platforms exist on the PC, OSX, and Linux environments, what Steam has is anything but a fucking monopoly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Steam_authentication
How about you read the definition, look at this list, and then tell us what it is called when steam is the sole distributer and controller of those games.
Specifically, these definitions seem to fit:

: complete ownership or control of something
: exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action
: exclusive possession or control
: a commodity controlled by one party

steam-key resellers can't be considered viable "competition", which leaves only Origin and GOG - and uPlay to a degree, must admit I've no personal experience with it.
The only exclusive games you can find on Origin are the ones made or owned by EA - which I can't fault them for, and likewise for valve and their own games being steam-exclusives.
GOG is decidedly anti-drm, which is in direct contradiction to valve's policy, which means there's little to no crossover in the games they carry.
Neither Origin or GOG carry games that require steamwork drm, which still leaves no alternative way to legally acquire those games if you don't want to support and install steam.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Neither Origin or GOG carry games that require steamwork drm, which still leaves no alternative way to legally acquire those games if you don't want to support and install steam.

short of its own first party titles, steam doesn't have any type of ownership or say on 99% of games on steam, most publishers just choose to use steam as it is still drm that covers their ass "enough" while also hitting the largest userbase possible short of not having drm, publishers/devs just choose not to put it on other sites (or their own) because they'd have to spend money to rework the game and/or have to spend money to host it themselves.

now if steam was bullying or "persuading" devs/pubs to release their games only on steam, then yeah, you'd absolutely have a point, but that isn't the case.


steam most definitely has a huge chunk of the pc market pie, but a monopoly? they do not.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

That is why when some developers PR bullshit modding out the window with "Herp Derp Modders cant understandz ze engine" I get quite annoyed.

I get a laugh thinking of all the bedroom coders who've just taken the statement as a challenge.

So which annoyed you more, iD's "our megatextures are just too mega" or DICE's "the production pipeline is too expensive and high tech for modders"?

while this is true, and I get a laugh out of it myself, we've hit very little (next to nothing) in terms of mods for DA:I, which compared to origins is a really sad statement in itself. That game could heavily use some mods to trim the fat and deepen the gameplay (point allocation, MAYBE fix that abominable tactical camera, fix party control/command queue).

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Platform wars. Its actually gaming related so...

okay that makes more sense now, would it have hurt to simply say "console vs pc" or something of the sort? that's much more usual when someone is giving context to what they are talking about.

The "laugh" is you just stated something plainly untrue. Handheld versions of games exist, different versions of games across generations exist, and even games that were completely from the ground built up to get on another platform exist.
You talk as its some sort of unbelievable incident... but history proves you wrong.

As for the rest. We're not talking watered down, we're talking non existence... bit different. I'll take an exclusive game over a non existent game thank you very much.

I'm not purposefully trying to backtrack here, and I apologize, but I didn't mean literally all games and that it doesn't happen, closer to what I meant was it is NOT the norm for publishers to release games (within a similar time frame) across multiple platforms that aren't the same game, just ported and ran like shit. Handheld versions of games do exist, and different versions do exist across generations, but they are typically released years later (such as handhelds becoming more powerful to be able to handle the game) or cross generation to hopefully catch the same fanbase plus more of the game with an HD version (it's been proven to be a cheap and effective way to make money, sell an HD version of a game and it'll grab from that same crowd plus more. look at the master chief collection or the final fantasy HD versions.)

the instance I listed with D3 was rare, there are very few games that were built for one platform/strength and then rebuilt to accompany another (as mentioned, in a set time frame, not years later for some HD version.).

Now I'm a bit confused on that last part..what would be non-existent? different platforms? different companies? different games? which game would be non-existent that wouldn't be an exclusive otherwise?

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

No. You're purposefully ignoring or trying to misinterpret what actually constitutes a monopoly.

Is Microsoft a monopoly for having a wealth of titles that can only be obtained and played on the Xbox? Is Nintendo a monopoly for having titles that can only be played on it's systems? Is Sony a monopoly for similar reasons? Is EA?

Unless you want to argue against the existence of games like Minecraft, World of Tanks, Titanfall, Battlefield 4, Torchlight 2, Terraria, Diablo 3, World of Warcraft, and thousands of others that don't use or don't require Steam to purchase and play, then you're argument is invalid.

Hell, here's a list of games on Steam that don't require Steam or any other form of DRM to run - http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

You're just demonstrably wrong.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Fallacious arguments like "Steam is a monopoly!" are the very thing that undermines any meaningful discussions and criticisms of or against Steam. There are plenty of things to criticize Steam over, many of which are in desperate need of addressing (I'm looking at you steamwebhelper.exe >:[ ), but if everyone keeps screaming about "MONOPOLY! MONOPOLY!" the discussion never gets anywhere.

Hyperbole serves no one. And you're being as hyperbolic as they come.

 

[NPC009]

Modding is always relevant. Some of people's favourite games like Team Fortress, Counter Strike, Portal, Left 4 Dead, Killing Floor, Red Orchestra, Day of Defeat and others had their life start as a mod by a community.
Other games like STALKER Call of Pripyat and Company of Heroes 2 were heavily influenced by popular mods at the time.

And my friend, there are mods that rival official DLCs and expansion packs put out right now for many games. Some of the things I have seen are downright amazing works of passion.
Sometimes some mods are VERY different to the core game they were based on. Some of them may be of different genres even. Effectively, free unique content.

"If you only knew where I have been and what I have seen!"

Yeah, like I said, relevant to communities surrounding certain games. The games I play (mostly adventure games, small and quirky indie stuff) don't attract a modding crowd. Or am I doing PC gaming wrong by not really playing many of the PC masterrace's darlings?

Look, I'm not saying modding is useless, it absolutely isn't, but don't overrate it. Especially not in this day and age when people have the tools to create and publish their own semi-professional games.

 

[Bat Vader]

snip

No. You're purposefully ignoring or trying to misinterpret what actually constitutes a monopoly.

Is Microsoft a monopoly for having a wealth of titles that can only be obtained and played on the Xbox? Is Nintendo a monopoly for having titles that can only be played on it's systems? Is Sony a monopoly for similar reasons? Is EA?

Unless you want to argue against the existence of games like Minecraft, World of Tanks, Titanfall, Battlefield 4, Torchlight 2, Terraria, Diablo 3, World of Warcraft, and thousands of others that don't use or don't require Steam to purchase and play, then you're argument is invalid.

Hell, here's a list of games on Steam that don't require Steam or any other form of DRM to run - http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

You're just demonstrably wrong.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Fallacious arguments like "Steam is a monopoly!" are the very thing that undermines any meaningful discussions and criticisms of or against Steam. There are plenty of things to criticize Steam over, many of which are in desperate need of addressing (I'm looking at you steamwebhelper.exe >:[ ), but if everyone keeps screaming about "MONOPOLY! MONOPOLY!" the discussion never gets anywhere.

Hyperbole serves no one. And you're being as hyperbolic as they come.

One thing I hate about Steam, Origin, and U-Play is how most disc based PC games I buy these days are tied to their services. I feel that if I buy a disc based PC game I should not have it tied to a digital distribution platform.

 

[Bat Vader]

To all you idiots who think consoles are worthless and PC gaming is the only way. Your not really gamers just overly entitled jackasses.


The true master race are those who love games regardless of platform and want to fully enjoy the artform.

OT: I got a ton of good games this year from steam sale that I been wanting. And my B day coming up and me getting a Wii U for myself I'm going to be super busy with games in coming months with all the exclusives coming out.

That's kinda rude isn't it. What about console gamers who think that PC gaming is worthless. Surely everything you said should apply to them too.

 

[Rozalia1]

We were already through the old "It can be ported to everythingz!" thing, were we not?
There is a limit, where a game turns into something else. Not a port, a different game. And we are talking about porting, so its not what you want.
Also, please, stop the wrestling lingo! Normal English. You are a native, are you not? I've had less problems with A2 level speakers then you.

We'll see what the response is shall we.
Used none in this thread from what I remember.

okay that makes more sense now, would it have hurt to simply say "console vs pc" or something of the sort? that's much more usual when someone is giving context to what they are talking about.

A bit more unwieldy to string all that out. Besides identification really isn't needed here, no doubt everyone knows who the guys referred to belong to. Many are proud to be warriors as their platform is just so grand after all...

I'm not purposefully trying to backtrack here, and I apologize, but I didn't mean literally all games and that it doesn't happen, closer to what I meant was it is NOT the norm for publishers to release games (within a similar time frame) across multiple platforms that aren't the same game, just ported and ran like shit. Handheld versions of games do exist, and different versions do exist across generations, but they are typically released years later (such as handhelds becoming more powerful to be able to handle the game) or cross generation to hopefully catch the same fanbase plus more of the game with an HD version (it's been proven to be a cheap and effective way to make money, sell an HD version of a game and it'll grab from that same crowd plus more. look at the master chief collection or the final fantasy HD versions.)

the instance I listed with D3 was rare, there are very few games that were built for one platform/strength and then rebuilt to accompany another (as mentioned, in a set time frame, not years later for some HD version.).

Now I'm a bit confused on that last part..what would be non-existent? different platforms? different companies? different games? which game would be non-existent that wouldn't be an exclusive otherwise?

Well actually currently the norm is to make sure you have a PS360 version ready to go with your next gen/PC version, though they sometimes release the month after (PC included) to drive up sales of the next gen. Though I see what you mean and I'll not push it.

That's kinda rude isn't it. What about console gamers who think that PC gaming is worthless. Surely everything you said should apply to them too.

It isn't hard to surmise friend, though I have had that line thrown at me so I'll answer. We don't hate PC, we game on PCs... we hate platform wars as by owning all that we do we know them to be pointless (well people should just know to begin with but lets be nice)... now which one camp of warriors do you see on this site, while the others are pretty much non-existent? Its the Xbox guys right?

 

[Bat Vader]

We were already through the old "It can be ported to everythingz!" thing, were we not?
There is a limit, where a game turns into something else. Not a port, a different game. And we are talking about porting, so its not what you want.
Also, please, stop the wrestling lingo! Normal English. You are a native, are you not? I've had less problems with A2 level speakers then you.

We'll see what the response is shall we.
Used none in this thread from what I remember.

okay that makes more sense now, would it have hurt to simply say "console vs pc" or something of the sort? that's much more usual when someone is giving context to what they are talking about.

A bit more unwieldy to string all that out. Besides identification really isn't needed here, no doubt everyone knows who the guys referred to belong to. Many are proud to be warriors as their platform is just so grand after all...

I'm not purposefully trying to backtrack here, and I apologize, but I didn't mean literally all games and that it doesn't happen, closer to what I meant was it is NOT the norm for publishers to release games (within a similar time frame) across multiple platforms that aren't the same game, just ported and ran like shit. Handheld versions of games do exist, and different versions do exist across generations, but they are typically released years later (such as handhelds becoming more powerful to be able to handle the game) or cross generation to hopefully catch the same fanbase plus more of the game with an HD version (it's been proven to be a cheap and effective way to make money, sell an HD version of a game and it'll grab from that same crowd plus more. look at the master chief collection or the final fantasy HD versions.)

the instance I listed with D3 was rare, there are very few games that were built for one platform/strength and then rebuilt to accompany another (as mentioned, in a set time frame, not years later for some HD version.).

Now I'm a bit confused on that last part..what would be non-existent? different platforms? different companies? different games? which game would be non-existent that wouldn't be an exclusive otherwise?

Well actually currently the norm is to make sure you have a PS360 version ready to go with your next gen/PC version, though they sometimes release the month after (PC included) to drive up sales of the next gen. Though I see what you mean and I'll not push it.

That's kinda rude isn't it. What about console gamers who think that PC gaming is worthless. Surely everything you said should apply to them too.

It isn't hard to surmise friend, though I have had that line thrown at me so I'll answer. We don't hate PC, we game on PCs... we hate platform wars as by owning all that we do we know them to be pointless (well people should just know to begin with but lets be nice)... now which one camp of warriors do you see on this site, while the others are pretty much non-existent? Its the Xbox guys right?

I'm talking about console elitists. They are the same as PC elitists but the other way around. I don't hate on any. I have a great PC gaming rig, PS4, X-Box One, PS3, PS2, X-Box 360, PSX, and an X-Box Original.

 

[Rozalia1]

I'm talking about console elitists. They are the same as PC elitists but the other way around. I don't hate on any. I have a great PC gaming rig, PS4, X-Box One, PS3, PS2, X-Box 360, PSX, and an X-Box Original.

So you think the guy should have added in a line about a group (Console elitists as you put) that isn't even represented on this site? If someone is against platform wars and is ragging on PC guys due to them you know, being the only guys who indulge themselves in that on here... what you want is implied and doesn't need to be said.

Saying one group is wrong/bad doesn't mean you find all the rest right/good. That is platform wars thinking my friend.

 

[Bat Vader]

I'm talking about console elitists. They are the same as PC elitists but the other way around. I don't hate on any. I have a great PC gaming rig, PS4, X-Box One, PS3, PS2, X-Box 360, PSX, and an X-Box Original.

So you think the guy should have added in a line about a group (Console elitists as you put) that isn't even represented on this site? If someone is against platform wars and is ragging on PC guys due to them you know, being the only guys who indulge themselves in that on here... what you want is implied and doesn't need to be said.

Saying one group is wrong/bad doesn't mean you find all the rest right/good. That is platform wars thinking my friend.

I'm not talking about just on here. I'm talking about console elitists in general on every gaming website. PC elitists and Console elitists are both equally wrong in their viewpoints and both need to equally wake-up and realize their platforms aren't superior or inferior to any others.

People can't just fucking play games anymore instead people have to argue and complain about which platform they like more and feel offended when their purchasing decisions are attacked. I'm sick of it. It's all a bunch of senseless fighting and it needs to stop.

 

[Veldel]

To all you idiots who think consoles are worthless and PC gaming is the only way. Your not really gamers just overly entitled jackasses.


The true master race are those who love games regardless of platform and want to fully enjoy the artform.

OT: I got a ton of good games this year from steam sale that I been wanting. And my B day coming up and me getting a Wii U for myself I'm going to be super busy with games in coming months with all the exclusives coming out.

That's kinda rude isn't it. What about console gamers who think that PC gaming is worthless. Surely everything you said should apply to them too.

Yeah they are terrible and let's add any console fanboy who think one console is best and all other ones are garbage.

Which I'm having to deal with as my step bro has been brainwashed into thinking xbox is king of everything.

 

[NPC009]

"Look, I'm not saying modding is useless, it absolutely isn't, but don't overrate it. Especially not in this day and age when people have the tools to create and publish their own semi-professional games."

I am not overrating it. It is AS important as games. It IS games. In fact, I am underrating modding. You are underrating it even more it seems.
The second sentence is strange though. I dont get what it has to do with modding, except that some of those games started as mods. The good ones...


"Yeah, like I said, relevant to communities surrounding certain games."

Seems like it is directly or indirectly relevant to all of gaming.

"The games I play (mostly adventure games, small and quirky indie stuff) don't attract a modding crowd."

And that is fine mate. We all have tastes.

"Or am I doing PC gaming wrong by not really playing many of the PC masterrace's darlings?"

No mate, you are not doing wrong. You are playing the master race's darlings (if what you said before is true). You are just not knowledgeable on modding, you havent experienced its incredible power and potential. That is fine

I've seen what mods can do and its great that people have the freedom to do these things (usually, anyway), but looking at the games I play it's about as relevant as Shigeru Miyamoto liking gardening, which, no wait, that's actually totally relevant to my interests because Pikmin. What I'm trying to say is that's it's perfectly possible to game on your PC and have a great time doing to without ever trying some mods.

BTW I think you have to give console gamers some credit, too. While they aren't released often, there are games that encourage users to get creative. Little Big Planet would be a great modern example.

 

[Vigormortis]

One thing I hate about Steam, Origin, and U-Play is how most disc based PC games I buy these days are tied to their services. I feel that if I buy a disc based PC game I should not have it tied to a digital distribution platform.

While I appreciate that sentiment, and share it to a degree, there are a LOT of mitigating circumstances today in regards to game software distribution that make the situation far more complex than one might think.

Platforms like Steam, et al, provide more than just a digital store front and varied levels of DRM. They also provide a wealth of services to developers and the end-users that, under other circumstances, might be logistically or financially unfeasible for the developers and publishers to accomplish on their own. Automated updating, content hosting, matchmaking, social networking, server hosting, international distribution, etc.

The games themselves being limited to one platform or another is more often than not a choice of the developer or publisher of a game rather than because of the demands of the platform owner.

What I'm saying is, when it comes to a developer wanting to include certain features and services (ones that believe the end-user may expect) into their game, it makes more sense, financially, to utilize a platform that has these feature-sets and services built into it.

So, again, I appreciate and share your sentiment, but the situation is complicated.

 

[Bat Vader]

To all you idiots who think consoles are worthless and PC gaming is the only way. Your not really gamers just overly entitled jackasses.


The true master race are those who love games regardless of platform and want to fully enjoy the artform.

OT: I got a ton of good games this year from steam sale that I been wanting. And my B day coming up and me getting a Wii U for myself I'm going to be super busy with games in coming months with all the exclusives coming out.

That's kinda rude isn't it. What about console gamers who think that PC gaming is worthless. Surely everything you said should apply to them too.

Yeah they are terrible and let's add any console fanboy who think one console is best and all other ones are garbage.

Which I'm having to deal with as my step bro has been brainwashed into thinking xbox is king of everything.

I hate that too. I can understand not wanting a different console but thinking one is king of everything is just plain silly.

 

[Veldel]

To all you idiots who think consoles are worthless and PC gaming is the only way. Your not really gamers just overly entitled jackasses.


The true master race are those who love games regardless of platform and want to fully enjoy the artform.

OT: I got a ton of good games this year from steam sale that I been wanting. And my B day coming up and me getting a Wii U for myself I'm going to be super busy with games in coming months with all the exclusives coming out.

That's kinda rude isn't it. What about console gamers who think that PC gaming is worthless. Surely everything you said should apply to them too.

Yeah they are terrible and let's add any console fanboy who think one console is best and all other ones are garbage.

Which I'm having to deal with as my step bro has been brainwashed into thinking xbox is king of everything.

I hate that too. I can understand not wanting a different console but thinking one is king of everything is just plain silly.

he's at the annoying teen age and based on what I've heard from his friends there the main cause of it. It duesnt help he plays nothing but skyrim or minecraft and refuses to try and play them without using glitches and exploits due to difficulty.

it's gotten to the point that I don't even care because I'm tired of helping him when he refuses to try and learn and get better and if you say anything its oh well I don't fucking care attitude.