Stolen Pixels #186: Well Lookie Who We Have Here

Shamus Young

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Stolen Pixels #186: Well Lookie Who We Have Here

What's the point of a sequel that has nothing in common with the original IP?

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johnman

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I like how 2K claim they are staying true to the series roots, when the only thing they are really taking from the originals are the names.
 

Shamus Young

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Indeed, pointless and surely trying to ride on the back of the original IP to make some cash.
 

SquirrelPants

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Well, the names, and presumably the enemies...Other than that, it will probably be completely different.

...Also weapons and such.

I'm not defending it or anything, I saw that and nearly shat a brick. It might actually end up being fun though, you never know with this sort of thing.
 

crotalidian

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Oh wow. I played a teeny bit of X-Com waay back when but I completely forgot about it. would love to fire this up again (or play a game like in modern terms)

but a shooter. I'm getting bored of Shooters only Crysis 2 seems to be grabbing my attention and thats only because the storyline might not have more holes than Jesus' Swiss Cheese Factory
 
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zombie711 said:
it worked for fallout 3
Which is what I'm trying to keep in mind for this. But Fallout 3 actually tried to stick to the overall lore. Vault Dweller, Wasteland, fun. It had those.

But this... I just don't know...
 

Jared

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Irridium said:
zombie711 said:
it worked for fallout 3
Which is what I'm trying to keep in mind for this. But Fallout 3 actually tried to stick to the overall lore. Vault Dweller, Wasteland, fun. It had those.

But this... I just don't know...
Yeah, although they did same thing, they kept with a theme.

This is something totally new...its like opening a successful chicken farm then moving onto cows...totally different workings.

Ill be watching it but...
 

DancePuppets

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Ooh, a Bioshock MMO, set before the fall of Rapture all intrigue and player "companies" trying to outcompete each other as the world slowly goes more and more insane around them. I'd play that! :)
 

Retardinator

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Do they just have IP darts that they throw at a genre dartboard?
Yes. And there are 10 genres marked on the dartboard, 9 of them being FPS and the 10th one being action-adventure.(Which I put for the reason of not being very specific at all)
 

diabloclown

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I'm just hoping they include elements from stuff like Valkyria Chronicles or Rainbow Six. If they're going to make it a shooter, at the very least, have it include team tactics. There's no I in X-Com.
 

domicius

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It's been done before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Enforcer

So, really, it's no shock.

Also, I won't be buying it. I likes tactical squad games, and I wants tactical squad game. That doesn't take 2 hours per random battles. And causes me to have a heart attack every time the aliens launch a psionic takeover of my best units. And kill the rest. Brutally.
 

L4Y Duke

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d319tm said:
Ooh, a Bioshock MMO, set before the fall of Rapture all intrigue and player "companies" trying to outcompete each other as the world slowly goes more and more insane around them. I'd play that! :)
I was thinking the exact same thing.
 

Dogstile

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You know, I don't see why people get all up in a huff about this.
Your ideal game isn't being made because they wanted to do something different in the same universe, big deal. At least they aren't just updating the graphics and calling it a sequel like most company's do nowadays. Get over it XD
 

Hurr Durr Derp

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Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Even if it doesn't suck, it still does away with everything that made the original so great, so why do they need to tie this new game into the existing franchise? If this was called anything but X-COM (or Xcom, or whatever. I haven't a fuck to give), I wouldn't be bothered. Just another generic shooter in an era of generic shooters. But this transplant just makes no sense.

In essence, a genre change doesn't have to be a big deal. Look at Fallout 3: Sure, you might prefer the older games, but what made Fallout so great was the setting and atmosphere, which were translated to the FPS version fairly well. The gameplay of the original Fallout games was ok, but it wasn't what the games were about. People don't play Fallout for the gameplay. Even though not every great element of the older games was perfectly preserved, a significant part that made them what they were was something that could be preserved across genres, which is why I'm perfectly ok with Fallout 3.

However, the same just isn't true for X-COM. Just as people don't play Fallout for the gameplay, people don't play X-COM for the setting or the story. "Aliens invade Earth and you need to fight them off" is pretty much as generic as it gets. The tense atmosphere that the game could take on is also something that a huge number of games strive to achieve in one way or another, and is certainly nothing you'd need to use the franchise for. The only thing that makes X-COM fans X-COM fans is the gameplay. Any significant change to the core gameplay means that X-COM isn't X-COM anymore.

X-COM Enforcer was an earlier attempt at an X-COM shooter, and it failed miserably. Why build on that legacy in stead of starting something fresh and new? Even if this new game turns out to be the best shooter in the history of videogames, it still won't be what the fans expect out of the franchise, and the name means absolutely nothing to non-fans. So why would they even want to use the franchise?
 

mbourgon

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To be fair, if there's somebody who could get it right, it's the guys who did Freedom Force (and Thief, and System Shock 2, and...)
 

Kollega

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Really, i agree with that. Why would someone take an existing franchise to build in if it's so generic? They're not going to get any profit from old fans, and that name does not mean anything to people now.

d319tm said:
Ooh, a Bioshock MMO, set before the fall of Rapture all intrigue and player "companies" trying to outcompete each other as the world slowly goes more and more insane around them. I'd play that! :)
L4Y Duke said:
I was thinking the exact same thing.
There's a rumor it's in the works, just so you know.

mbourgon said:
To be fair, if there's somebody who could get it right, it's the guys who did Freedom Force (and Thief, and System Shock 2, and...)
It's the Bioshock 2 guys. Only wait, that's not even them - that's some secondary studio. Lolwut?
 

Warlockofaus

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I'm tempted to post a 'automatic game remaker' involving two 2d6 rolls. The Star Control 2 Shooter! The Syndicate JRPG! The Planescape:Torment Tower Defence!
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

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zombie711 said:
it worked for fallout 3
Fallout 3 was still an RPG. Not to mention that the first games were pretty combat heavy (if you so desired) so the FPS nature of it was more of an evolution and there was still "VATS" for the turn based slow-mo loving crowd.

Now we go from turn based overhead strategy game to real time FPS.

I have high hopes for this, because games like Rainbow Six (NOT vegas), and SWAT 4 have pulled this off, or at least something close.
 

Callate

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domicius said:
It's been done before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Enforcer

So, really, it's no shock.

Also, I won't be buying it. I likes tactical squad games, and I wants tactical squad game. That doesn't take 2 hours per random battles. And causes me to have a heart attack every time the aliens launch a psionic takeover of my best units. And kill the rest. Brutally.
Aw, but stun-rodding your own units is so good for slapstick fun.

Just incidentally, "X-Com: Enforcer" was apparently third-person rather than first, so not quite the same thing. 'Twas also apparently mindless dreck... We'll see how similarly this one falls out.

My thought is that if the anticipated game is effectively a prequel to the events of the turn-based tactical game, that might not be so bad. Being in the midst of a psionic attack from the first person perspective could be really creepy if it was done right, for example.

But it may indeed be a "mine a recognizable IP for nostalgia value" move and nothing more. We'll see.
 

Shamus Young

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Hurr Durr Derp said:
However, the same just isn't true for X-COM. Just as people don't play Fallout for the gameplay, people don't play X-COM for the setting or the story. "Aliens invade Earth and you need to fight them off" is pretty much as generic as it gets. The tense atmosphere that the game could take on is also something that a huge number of games strive to achieve in one way or another, and is certainly nothing you'd need to use the franchise for. The only thing that makes X-COM fans X-COM fans is the gameplay. Any significant change to the core gameplay means that X-COM isn't X-COM anymore.
That's bullshit quite frankly. To say that X-com is just gameplay is to say that there's nothing more to it. I didn't play X-Com just for the gameplay, I played it for the story and the atmosphere just as much. Jagged Alliance is just like X-com, but it's not sci fi, and lacks the atmosphere, so I didn't like it nearly as much.

If people want to run with Xcom for an FPS then go for it. I'll give it a go. If I want some newer Xcom games I'll play the UFO trilogy sitting on my shelf. If that doesn't cut the mustard I'll play TFTD from Steam.

If they made a new xcom in the vein of the original game the closest you'd probably get is some DoW2 knockoff quite frankly. RTS with a squad of guys. Turn based strategy is a hard sell these days, especially something as involving as Xcom.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Rebelstar Tactical Command is a kick ass GBA game that reminded me a lot of X-Com.

Yes, I will mention this in every X-Com thread.
 

Shamus Young

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Actually You said A bioshock MMO would be weird....
But I can definetly see it working

Although like in world of warcraft the scale of the player base compared to the story would be to large (Take as an example just normal humans in Rapture next to the "near extinct" blood elves in WoW) As in WoW there are perhaps 2 million blood elf characters compared to the full player base of +12 million that's a lot for an near extinct race same with the Death knights :p

so yeah tha could actually work tho it would ruin the atmosphere the normal game had but all mmo's do that
 

Tiamat666

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I can imagine a tactical FPS X-Com. It's been done before here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Hulk:_Vengeance_of_the_Blood_Angels and here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Hulk_%28video_game%29
Both games are alot of fun.

Also, something along the VATS system in Fallout comes close to being tactical FPS.

Actually, I had the thought of how awesome an FPS X-Com could be, the first time I swam underwater in Crysis. The... water... is... so ... pretty...

And yes, I prefer Terror from the Deep to the original X-Com.
 

Kevvers

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Well.... actually I'd quite like to play a shooter in the X-COM universe as that universe had quite a lot of interesting stuff that you read about in the ufopedia but never really got to see. The world of X-Com is mind-bendingly terrifying after all -- having to shoot down waves of psionically controlled civilians, super-soldier mutons and of course the crysallids... Imagine as an FBI agent having to decide whether to shoot down civilians or let them get impregnated... or opening a door to be confronted with a muton shouting the alien equivalent of "Guten Tag!" and opening up on you with a plasma cannon in manner resembling the end of that first episode of Wolfenstein. That would be pretty awesome.
 

Dev Null

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crotalidian said:
Oh wow. I played a teeny bit of X-Com waay back when but I completely forgot about it. would love to fire this up again (or play a game like in modern terms)
Try UFO: Aftershock. Made quite a few years later, so it updates the graphics and adds some fairly decent new game mechanics without - I thought - spoiling the originals. _Don't_ start with UFO: Aftermath, which is a prototype in a box.

What always gets me about moves like this is that I can't even understand them if I assume the publishers are just greedy bastards and look at it from their point-of-view. As Shamus points out, there are probably only half-a-dozen of us X-Com fans out here, and we're all sort of offended by the idea; we'll probably end up checking the game out, but it will be in _spite_ of the fact that they've used the IP, not because of it. And noone else will even get the reference, so no extra sales there either. My best guess is that the developer is one of us secret fans with dusty memories of all-night UFO sessions, but they couldn't sell the idea of a proper remake to a publisher, so they're hoping to just do a bit of homage with their latest bangbang clone. Which would actually bode well for this "reboot"... except that I'm not sure there's enough left to make a homage out of, by the time you rip out all the things they've stripped from the original.
 

TheEggplant

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Doesn't anyone remember Alliance?
I was really up for this game when it was announced and very down when it and everything Microprose was canned. I'm not too happy about 2K being the ones responsible but this has a lot of potential.
 

Otterpoet

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If they're smart, they'll make the game just like Battlezone (an under-appreciated RTS/Shooter). I miss the original X-Com. From the frantic firefights at the random landing sights to the balls-out butchery of base attacks, it was just too cool for school.
 

Shamus Young

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Just get the original X-COM off Steam for five bucks, like I did. I wonder if anyone recalls X-COM: Enforcer, which was an early attempt to pull bullshit like this off, and it sucked real bad.


EDIT: Ah, I see that some do remember this tomfoolery.
 
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domicius said:
It's been done before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Enforcer
What he said. It was meh.
Obligatory Linkage [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/5379-Review-X-Com-Revival-Package]

But then Shamus, you've countered your own argument with Half Life. At least let the demo come out before you slate it. :)

(At least you won't be collecting Alien Pies :) )
 

lynxus

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If I recall right they already made a first person shooter as an X-com game and it sucked. Give me Terror from the deep again. Heck, I've played it several times over the years. It still rocks.

Edit: I was too lazy to read the comments before. Enforcer was the name... :)
 

Sir Kemper

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zombie711 said:
it worked for fallout 3
Irridium said:
zombie711 said:
it worked for fallout 3
Which is what I'm trying to keep in mind for this. But Fallout 3 actually tried to stick to the overall lore. Vault Dweller, Wasteland, fun. It had those.

But this... I just don't know...
Too true, however, if you look about the internet you'll find alot of "WTF FALLOUT 3 ****** CRAP" from alot of the more hardcore fans, but i digress.

Anyway OT:

Alway's leave it to Gordon Freeman to occasionaly be the voice of reason...
 

maddawg IAJI

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I did not know about this remake or of the orginal. I do know that you made me laugh considering that is the reaction I get out of most of my gamer friends when I mention a shooter.
 

veloper

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just another shooter then

what a waste of the IP
what are the odds a new shooter will stand out of the crowd nowadays?
 

SnootyEnglishman

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A game company leeching off a mildly successful franchise based on name alone eh? Seems that this is common practice now a days.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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That Gordon. He's such a persuasive speaker.

...I guess.

Anyway. Wouldn't releasing a top-down, turn-based strategy game actually stand out amongst the crowds these days? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love FPS games (and suck at strategy games) but you can't swing a dead baby cat euphemism around without hitting a newly-released FPS game. And as others have stated, it's not like the X-Com franchise has really kept its legs over the years. Have we really gotten that low in the intellectual-property barrel, that they're dredging this game up? They might as well redesign PO'ed [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PO'ed] as a gritty near-future third-person stealth game.

...though, honestly, THAT I might buy.
 

CD-R

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I already made a post about why a new version of X-com could work as a tactical FPS (provided you kept the other stuff in).

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.188299-New-X-Com-Shooter-Coming-From-BioShock-2-Studio?page=2#5799533

To sum it up FLYING POWER ARMOR !!!!!!!!

I suppose this game could work if they make it like a prequel. In this game you discover the alien threat and it ends with X-Com being formed. Then the next game is a proper X-Com game with base building, research etc.

If this games is going to work as an FPS it really needs some ground breaking new feature like randomly generated destructible environments or something. A next gen version of X-Com could definitely be an amazing game. You would need to merge a lot of different game genres to pull it off, flight sim, tactical shooters, management sims, rpgs etc. I just don't know if any game company has the tech or resources to make something like that.

I will say this though. Alien autopsy and interrogations could make for some pretty fun mini games. You could even add Natal support if it's on the 360.
 

Aptspire

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X-Com... ooooh glee -_-
seriously...
also, yeah, HL2 stand pretty much on its own :p
 

samsonguy920

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I guess 2K forgot or doesn't even know of Westwood's little thing they did with their RTS into a FPS. I bet everybody here does remember and knows what I am talking about. And how it failed.

A flight simulator for Animal Crossing might actually be cool. Flying over all those cutesy towns and farms...
 

Toothache of Sauron

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Though even having X-COM Enforcer, I will quote Darth Vader (you know, Annakin Skywalker after he turned to good) with some better acting: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

X-COM Terror from the deep should have been an expansion from Enemy Unknown. That said, X-COM: Enemy Unknown (aka UFO Defense aka Terran something) is the best game there's ever been along the X-Wing and TIE Fighter games. Strategy, need to think tactics and strategy to get the missions done.

Also, Real Strategy Is Turn Based.

Also, for some, the mildly successful game called X-COM was voted best videogame at year 2000.
 

Vitor Goncalves

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Well blizzard turned the best RTS series in the world into a MMORPG, so why not? Since then anything is possible. I would pay insane amounts of money to see farmville become a survivol horror. Your crops became alien transgenic, your machinery is possessed by evil spirits, your kitties and rabbits got rabids, your cows became carnivorous and your chickens and ducks turned into zombies.
 

The Great JT

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Gordon got to be such a good listener by ignoring whatever people say to him.

Hey, I blundered my way to the end of Half-Life 2: Episode 2 that way.
 

Shamus Young

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Why not just re-make X-Com?

Surely a turn-based tactical game with today's fantastic graphics/engines could be a real winner? And it wasn't just the tactical side of this classic that made it fun, but all the other stuff you had to do - researching tech/xenos, upgrading your base(s), ships and teams etc.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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zombie711 said:
it worked for fallout 3
It didn't work for Fallout 3. Fallout 3 was just Oblivion with a post nuke skin and guns instead of spells. Because it was meant for the FPS crowd there were very few situations where you could stealth or talk your way out of fights. In Fallout 1/2 you could play a character without any combat skills and rely on stealth or your companions. Like most games with a morality system the choices were limited to lawful stupid white knight and chaotic retard homicidal maniac.

The VATS system was somewhat innovative but also broken. If you maxed VATS perks/stats you were unstoppable, if you didn't then you could barely make progress, there wasn't really a happy medium.
 

Mullahgrrl

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d319tm said:
Ooh, a Bioshock MMO, set before the fall of Rapture all intrigue and player "companies" trying to outcompete each other as the world slowly goes more and more insane around them. I'd play that! :)
Man, I've been dreaming about that game since about halfway through Bioshock 1!

And an Sonic rts, man would that rule!?

But only if they based it on the SATam.


MARGARINE!
 

Shamus Young

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Sir Kemper said:
Too true, however, if you look about the internet you'll find alot of "WTF FALLOUT 3 ****** CRAP" from alot of the more hardcore fans, but i digress.

Anyway OT:

Alway's leave it to Gordon Freeman to occasionaly be the voice of reason...
Yep, I hated Fallout 3. It wasn't even my fault, it just happened. And yes, it had a lot to do with it straying from the sense of humour of the previous two.

And as for X-com, or Xcom, or whatever, they have a big problem. Assuming they only take the thematic elements, that is, that there are aliens and what those aliens look like, they are already in trouble because, let's face it, the aliens on the original games were little grey men in flying saucers. It's not like art design was their big contribution to the gaming industry at all.

Now, they've said that they are taking the team building and tech researching elements as well, which could be interesting in a shooter, but that's still missing the point. The great moments in X-com were about being attacked in the base you laid out yourself and finding that your own design was playing against you, or the sense of dread when being down to the last heroic soldier after a well placed alien grenade wiped out your entire team. I'm sure they can put together a competent, atmospheric shooter, but I'll be genuinely surprised if it feels like X-com in the slightest.
 

zombie711

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rembrandtqeinstein said:
zombie711 said:
it worked for fallout 3
It didn't work for Fallout 3. Fallout 3 was just Oblivion with a post nuke skin and guns instead of spells. Because it was meant for the FPS crowd there were very few situations where you could stealth or talk your way out of fights. In Fallout 1/2 you could play a character without any combat skills and rely on stealth or your companions. Like most games with a morality system the choices were limited to lawful stupid white knight and chaotic retard homicidal maniac.

The VATS system was somewhat innovative but also broken. If you maxed VATS perks/stats you were unstoppable, if you didn't then you could barely make progress, there wasn't really a happy medium.
you seem to forget that bioshock and borderlands were both RPGs that play like an fps. I think these 2 titles show that 2K knows what their doing.
 

GodKlown

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Reminds me of the crap that happened with Shadowrun when they decided to bring that game back. Nothing like the version on the SNES, and I was highly disappointed with them turning it into what it became.
 

Allan Foe

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Shamus Young said:
Sonic the Hedgehog! Mass Effect tower defense! A Metal Gear dating sim! Cooking Mama brawler. Animal Crossing: The Flight Simulator. A BioShock MMO.
You actually KNEW about THIS?!


That can't be just a coincidence!
[http://img708.imageshack.us/i/tokimekimetalgear2.jpg/]
 

Giftmacher

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TheEggplant said:
Doesn't anyone remember Alliance?
I was really up for this game when it was announced and very down when it and everything Microprose was canned. I'm not too happy about 2K being the ones responsible but this has a lot of potential.
Yup, I remember it and I was looking forward to it: Alliance [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Alliance]. I was pretty unhappy to see the project get canned. Anyway, it's nothing new as everyone citing the 3rd person Enforcer has already pointed out. Personally I'll reserve judgement, done right it could be a pretty decent game.

At any rate it'd have to try hard to disappoint me more than the UFO series. I really could not get on with those games, the bugs certainly didn't help, pretty they may have been but somehow the gameplay was no where near as enjoyable. And who knows, if the FPS does well maybe it'll prompt them to make a strategy X-Com... I can dream can't I?

Gift.
 

Giftmacher

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samsonguy920 said:
I guess 2K forgot or doesn't even know of Westwood's little thing they did with their RTS into a FPS. I bet everybody here does remember and knows what I am talking about. And how it failed.
Well yes, but I think part of that was just taking too long to get Renegade out of the door. At any rate, when I finally got my hands on the game years later I was fairly pleasantly surprised. It's not the best FPS I've laid hands on, but I don't think it deserved much of the bad press it got either.

Gift.
 

samsonguy920

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Giftmacher said:
samsonguy920 said:
I guess 2K forgot or doesn't even know of Westwood's little thing they did with their RTS into a FPS. I bet everybody here does remember and knows what I am talking about. And how it failed.
Well yes, but I think part of that was just taking too long to get Renegade out of the door. At any rate, when I finally got my hands on the game years later I was fairly pleasantly surprised. It's not the best FPS I've laid hands on, but I don't think it deserved much of the bad press it got either.

Gift.
Well I didn't have high hopes for Dark Forces, and yet that game turned into a winner. And no old age jokes, please.
 

RelexCryo

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Shamus Young said:
Stolen Pixels #186: Well Lookie Who We Have Here

What's the point of a sequel that has nothing in common with the original IP?

Read Full Article
On the one hand, I loved the game BECAUSE of it's "spreadsheet" attention to detail- you really felt like you were a base commander researching technologies, building stuff, and fighting aliens.

On the other hand, I sucked at the game something fierce. I will probably be better at this FPS. I hope they at least include some base building elements in the game.
 

Giftmacher

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samsonguy920 said:
Giftmacher said:
samsonguy920 said:
I guess 2K forgot or doesn't even know of Westwood's little thing they did with their RTS into a FPS. I bet everybody here does remember and knows what I am talking about. And how it failed.
Well yes, but I think part of that was just taking too long to get Renegade out of the door. At any rate, when I finally got my hands on the game years later I was fairly pleasantly surprised. It's not the best FPS I've laid hands on, but I don't think it deserved much of the bad press it got either.

Gift.
Well I didn't have high hopes for Dark Forces, and yet that game turned into a winner. And no old age jokes, please.
Old age jokes? Not likely, if I laugh too hard I fall over my Zimmer frame and wet myself. ;) You're right though DF was a decent game, the lack of lightsabre put me off to begin with but it's actually pretty enjoyable.

Gift.
 

Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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To all the people saying "It worked for Fallout 3!" - What worked? All FO3 really did was switch from third-person to first person. The actual stuff you did in the game was pretty much the same - You explored a post-apocalyptic near future inspired by the Cold War era, rummaged through ruins, sifted through junk, explored an open world with a larger main plot always in the background.

On the other hand, this is a complete genre shift and I've yet to see anything linking this new "X-Com" game to the original ones. "Aliens attack Earth" is far too vague and until more details are released, I'll go ahead and assume the worst. That isn't to say it couldn't work, but it would have to at least retain the setting and the visual design, as well as many other elements.

The whole "FBI agent" thing doesn't bother me as much, since the game could be dealing with the pre-X-COM era, or the forming of X-Com when the Aliens were first discovered. You might start the game as an FBI agent, only to end up as an X-COM Commando.

What DOES bother me is that while the genre change might be acceptable, the change in the game's underlying paradigm will strip it of any semblance of X-Com soul. I'll elaborate:

The original X-Com games were pretty much Sandbox. There were almost no scripted events, you were given the World and some Cash and told to organize the defense of the planet. How you went about this was entirely up to you. Where you built your bases? How many? How specialized? Which research did you prioritize? Which weapons you used? Did you use tanks or loaded more infantry? Each game could develop differently as you acquire key items in a different order.

Now move this into the FPS genre. Go ahead, I dare you. And even if you succeed, ask yourself if such a game could be made, especially by a minor dev studio.

In the end, this will likely be a standard linear FPS game with maybe some X-Com enemies thrown into the mix. It might not suck, but it won't be an X-Com game...
 

JEBWrench

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Jandau said:
What DOES bother me is that while the genre change might be acceptable, the change in the game's underlying paradigm will strip it of any semblance of X-Com soul. I'll elaborate:
Retail products don't have souls. FPS sells more than TBT.

Anyways, there is absolutely nothing preventing the elements of resource management and defense organization from working in a first-person game. Also, calling 2K Marin a minor dev studio? Wha? They did two hugely successful big-budget games.
 

Jandau

Smug Platypus
Dec 19, 2008
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JEBWrench said:
Jandau said:
What DOES bother me is that while the genre change might be acceptable, the change in the game's underlying paradigm will strip it of any semblance of X-Com soul. I'll elaborate:
Retail products don't have souls. FPS sells more than TBT.

Anyways, there is absolutely nothing preventing the elements of resource management and defense organization from working in a first-person game. Also, calling 2K Marin a minor dev studio? Wha? They did two hugely successful big-budget games.
Oh I know FPS games sell better than TBTs, but does that mean every game should be an FPS? Or that I should be happy about it? And I disagree with you about the soul part. A game can have soul in the same way a book or a movie can have it. But if you choose to see the world only from a cold profit-centered capitalistic perspective, then yes, products don't have souls and we should only make that which sells best. Thankfully, not everyone thinks that way.

2K Marin isn't a minor studio. However, the game isn't being made by 2K Marin. It's being made by 2K Australia, which recently got a name change into 2K Marin. So currently there are two "2K Marin" studios, one that did Bioshock and the other smaller one that kinda helped them a little and is now in charge of the X-Com game.

Also, I'm not saying that it can't be done (read my post). I'm just saying it would be very hard and I doubt the studio in charge of it would have the needed resources to do anything beyond a bog-standard linear FPS with some inventory management...
 

samsonguy920

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Giftmacher said:
samsonguy920 said:
Giftmacher said:
samsonguy920 said:
I guess 2K forgot or doesn't even know of Westwood's little thing they did with their RTS into a FPS. I bet everybody here does remember and knows what I am talking about. And how it failed.
Well yes, but I think part of that was just taking too long to get Renegade out of the door. At any rate, when I finally got my hands on the game years later I was fairly pleasantly surprised. It's not the best FPS I've laid hands on, but I don't think it deserved much of the bad press it got either.

Gift.
Well I didn't have high hopes for Dark Forces, and yet that game turned into a winner. And no old age jokes, please.
Old age jokes? Not likely, if I laugh too hard I fall over my Zimmer frame and wet myself. ;) You're right though DF was a decent game, the lack of lightsabre put me off to begin with but it's actually pretty enjoyable.

Gift.
There is more to life in the galaxy than swinging a lightsaber around. One gets plenty done with a trusty blaster at your side. :p
 

starlight2098

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Jul 19, 2008
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You know, when I heard that they were going to remake X-Com (or UFO: Enemy Unknown as I knew it in my part of the world) I was genuinely excited. I was hopeful that this was going to be one of those remakes where they just slap better graphics on an existing game and call it a day. That would have been lazy, but great. A full-3D sexed-up version of the game would have been effing bueno.

To hear that this is yet another Intellectual Property sacrificed updon the FPS alter, well, that's just plain disappointing. As has been said, for this and many other bastardised classics, why did they feel the need to hijack an existing IP? Did they think that all of us disabused turn-based strategy base-building types would THANK them for turning one of our beloved games into another shooter for the slack-jawed and impatient? Did they think the attention-span-less instant gratification types would actually give a s**t about the X-Com IP? I think they have their markets mixed up.

Ah well, I still pick up UFO every couple of years. I'm not going to bother buying this though. I got bored of FPS with the original Half-Life.

I did play Fallout 3 and I did enjoy it (it had just enough stat and inventory fiddling to keep me entertained) though not as much as the first two, but this is quite simply a different case. Fallout could be adapted because the story and gameplay did focus on a single character (and friends.) X-Com cannot because it was never about the characters. Not your anonymous base commander, not the red-shirt plasma-fodder troops (just TRY getting emotionally attached to them) and certainly not the dozens of faceless Scientists and Engineers you employed.

The current games industry needs to get its head around the fact that some of us couldn't give two craps about characters or dialogue a lot of the time. Some of us just want to build bases and control interceptors and toy soldiers. The less we hear of voice actors the better.

Additionally, I did play UFO: Aftermath. I did enjoy that, the realtime tactical "stopwatch" combat was actually pretty well done, but unfortunately I felt the game stripped out too much of the base-building and UFO-interception gameplay. It oversimplified the UFO/X-Com concept to the point where the world-map was little better than a mission select screen. In Enemy Unknown, for me, the core of the gameplay was building and managing my bases and interceptors, whilst the inevitable ground missions were at times just a periodic annoyance.

It just bugs me that the games industry at the moment seems to shun 'impersonal' games, trying to give us all "compelling and engaging cinematic experiences" or rather; Showing off their latest motion capture bollocks and torturing our ears and minds with irritating voice actors and poorly conceived characters acting out terribly written stories.

Some of us couldn't care less about these mewling morons. Some of us are more interested in the big picture. A picture hopefully big enough that you get a good overview and can't make out any faces or voices.
 

Ryokai

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Apr 4, 2010
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I dunno, a Bioshock MMO sounds TIGHT. So long as it still had the original style shooter gameplay and plasmid systems.
 

LWS666

[Speech: 100]
Nov 5, 2009
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Ryokai said:
I dunno, a Bioshock MMO sounds TIGHT. So long as it still had the original style shooter gameplay and plasmid systems.
i just think WoW with a quick reskin and re-naming stuff.

although it could be sweet if you rolled either a big daddy or a human, then the out side could be the big daddy area.

actaully, it could work. but make it a prequel, so that parts have turned to turmoil with people fighting (the PvP areas) and parts are relativly unchanged so far (the places to buy/sell stuff).
 

Ryokai

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Apr 4, 2010
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LWS666 said:
Ryokai said:
I dunno, a Bioshock MMO sounds TIGHT. So long as it still had the original style shooter gameplay and plasmid systems.
i just think WoW with a quick reskin and re-naming stuff.

although it could be sweet if you rolled either a big daddy or a human, then the out side could be the big daddy area.

actaully, it could work. but make it a prequel, so that parts have turned to turmoil with people fighting (the PvP areas) and parts are relativly unchanged so far (the places to buy/sell stuff).
Ugh, not like WoW at all. Make it Bioshock just like the games, but add in massive multiplayer. No grinding or shit like that (though keep plasmid and gene tonic upgrade system).

A prequel idea sounds nice, which is what they did with the Bioshock 2 multiplayer. Though a lot of Bioshocks appeal was the ruined great city feel.
 

The Arbitor

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May 27, 2010
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A real time strategy Sonic the Hedgehog!: Would not play

Mass Effect tower defense!: Would open it up ... then get distracted by something else

A Metal Gear dating sim!: Would play religiously for 6 mounths and occashionaly go back at darker moments in the years to come

Cooking Mama brawler.: I dont understand what that could be

Animal Crossing: The Flight Simulator. Absolute must buy

A BioShock MMO.: Would get the 12 day free trial 1 year after relese, proabably play it for less time that it took to download

X-com shooter? : na I've got a life