Stop Complaining and Make Your Own Game

machineiv

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Oct 15, 2009
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Stop Complaining and Make Your Own Game

You think you can build a better tabletop game than what's already out there? It's group workshop time, everybody!

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machineiv

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You're absolutely correct.

What I've done here is given a basic outline for putting down a design document, which for most video game companies is the heart of the process. It's not dissimilar at all.

(That's not a coincidence, most game designers seem to have a background in tabletop gaming.)
 

machineiv

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I love me some Pathfinder.

However, I can see an argument against buying 50$ houserules for 3.5. I got the book, and it's awesome, but I am a firm advocate of trying new things.
 

PedroSteckecilo

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Feb 7, 2008
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Simriel said:
Or: To the fourth ed complainers, Buy Pathfinder.
Except for those of us who wanted 4th Ed to be more like Star Wars SAGA edition... for us rare folk Pathfinder is just a new coat of paint on the broken down 3.5 system.

For the record, before I read this article I already had a separate window open where I'm trying to build my own game. The process is difficult.
 

Simriel

The Count of Monte Cristo
Dec 22, 2008
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PedroSteckecilo said:
Simriel said:
Or: To the fourth ed complainers, Buy Pathfinder.
Except for those of us who wanted 4th Ed to be more like Star Wars SAGA edition... for us rare folk Pathfinder is just a new coat of paint on the broken down 3.5 system.
Saga had many flaws, and was like 4e far too overpowered. Try Pathfinder. It actually fixes 3.5 and gives you a power boost without being the godlike unkillable badass who has basically got regen health from 4e.
 

PedroSteckecilo

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Simriel said:
Saga had many flaws, and was like 4e far too overpowered. Try Pathfinder. It actually fixes 3.5 and gives you a power boost without being the godlike unkillable badass who has basically got regen health from 4e.
Not a really good argument for me, I like the Overpoweredness of 4th and SAGA, if I wanted to play gritty fantasy I'd play either the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay or Burning Wheel, both do it better than DnD or Pathfinder.

My primary issue with Pathfinder is that it doesn't fix NEARLY enough to make me happy, there's no incentive system (see something like Fate Points in Burning Wheel, Bennies in Savage Worlds or Destiny Points in Star Wars), there are too many useless skills and it still takes FOREVER to stat anything out, unless you just want to use monsters straight out of the monster manual.
 

Simriel

The Count of Monte Cristo
Dec 22, 2008
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PedroSteckecilo said:
Simriel said:
Saga had many flaws, and was like 4e far too overpowered. Try Pathfinder. It actually fixes 3.5 and gives you a power boost without being the godlike unkillable badass who has basically got regen health from 4e.
Not a really good argument for me, I like the Overpoweredness of 4th and SAGA, if I wanted to play gritty fantasy I'd play either the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay or Burning Wheel, both do it better than DnD or Pathfinder.

My primary issue with Pathfinder is that it doesn't fix NEARLY enough to make me happy, there's no incentive system (see something like Fate Points in Burning Wheel, Bennies in Savage Worlds or Destiny Points in Star Wars), there are too many useless skills and it still takes FOREVER to stat anything out, unless you just want to use monsters straight out of the monster manual.
Not seen the Pathfinder monster manual huh? Also my incentive and most peoples is ya know... Playing the game and taking part in a story, and also getting to kill things.
 

Hiphophippo

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Nov 5, 2009
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Simriel said:
Or: To the fourth ed complainers, Buy Pathfinder.
BUY PATHFINDER

/courage wolf

ROLL TWENTIES

to hell with making the actual picture. Great game though.
 

Simriel

The Count of Monte Cristo
Dec 22, 2008
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Hiphophippo said:
Simriel said:
Or: To the fourth ed complainers, Buy Pathfinder.
BUY PATHFINDER

/courage wolf

ROLL TWENTIES

to hell with making the actual picture. Great game though.
Ah a fellow player of the game where a Half Orc Bard is actually a GOOD thing? I love pathfinder...
 

The Random One

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I've been playing RPGs for, what, almost ten years now and the first time I run a game that I didn't create, mechanics and settings and everything, from the ground up, was, well, last week.
 

Hiphophippo

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Simriel said:
Hiphophippo said:
Simriel said:
Or: To the fourth ed complainers, Buy Pathfinder.
BUY PATHFINDER

/courage wolf

ROLL TWENTIES

to hell with making the actual picture. Great game though.
Ah a fellow player of the game where a Half Orc Bard is actually a GOOD thing? I love pathfinder...
I'm personally of the opinion that Bards are always awesome, regardless of the system. In 3.5 one of my favorite class combos was to spec a bard into Loremaster. It was a little wonky setting it up and it took some time to hit the prereqs but the flavor of it always appealed to me.
 

Simriel

The Count of Monte Cristo
Dec 22, 2008
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Hiphophippo said:
Simriel said:
Hiphophippo said:
Simriel said:
Or: To the fourth ed complainers, Buy Pathfinder.
BUY PATHFINDER

/courage wolf

ROLL TWENTIES

to hell with making the actual picture. Great game though.
Ah a fellow player of the game where a Half Orc Bard is actually a GOOD thing? I love pathfinder...
I'm personally of the opinion that Bards are always awesome, regardless of the system. In 3.5 one of my favorite class combos was to spec a bard into Loremaster. It was a little wonky setting it up and it took some time to hit the prereqs but the flavor of it always appealed to me.
yeah but have you seen the level 20 pathfinder ability for bards? Death by laughter? That rocks. Bard to loremaster is easier now as well I think.
 

Taco of flames

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May 30, 2009
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I would like to try this sometime. Unfortunately, I don't think I can get together a group of friends who can get along and stay focused for 4 hours. Excellent tips, though.
 

TheEndlessGrey

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Sep 28, 2009
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While I support the overall message of this article, 4E does suck.

Not that this point really needs my support, but of the various garage game projects I've worked for myself or with friends, the ones that turn out the best are the ones where we used a tabletop prototype to pin down the gameplay. Don't even think about coding until you've got a completed design document. This sounds like it could be a programmer's nightmare, having to bring into existence a game designed without regard for technical limitations, but it shouldn't be. Very rarely does pushing technical limits yield a better game, and if you've been working with that tabletop prototype you simply cannot go beyond technical limits. There are no day/night cycles or weather effects on your tabletop. There is no depth or field or motion blur. You can declare that it is night time and raining, and because of that archers have a penalty to hit (or whatever), but this can be as simple as having a token or a spinner to indicate the time of day and weather conditions. Keep it simple, especially if you haven't done this sort of thing before.
 

machineiv

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Taco: Do it in an hour. I do it pretty frequently, and it works well. It's actually more fun, the faster paced you make the exercise.
 

machineiv

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TheEndlessGrey said:
While I support the overall message of this article, 4E does suck.
Meh. That's a perfectly valid opinion. I've been playing 4e with some regularity. I don't like it as much as the games I tend to play most (World of Darkness and my own games mostly topping that list,) but it certainly does what it's supposed to do rather well.

TheEndlessGrey said:
Not that this point really needs my support, but of the various garage game projects I've worked for myself or with friends, the ones that turn out the best are the ones where we used a tabletop prototype to pin down the gameplay. Don't even think about coding until you've got a completed design document. This sounds like it could be a programmer's nightmare, having to bring into existence a game designed without regard for technical limitations, but it shouldn't be. Very rarely does pushing technical limits yield a better game, and if you've been working with that tabletop prototype you simply cannot go beyond technical limits. There are no day/night cycles or weather effects on your tabletop. There is no depth or field or motion blur. You can declare that it is night time and raining, and because of that archers have a penalty to hit (or whatever), but this can be as simple as having a token or a spinner to indicate the time of day and weather conditions. Keep it simple, especially if you haven't done this sort of thing before.
Absolutely. When working on video game material, I think you're best served by working with your head in the clouds, letting the actual technical material reign you in than to try to make something within constraints first. Pushing boundaries brings us the best video games in the world.
 

whaleswiththumbs

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Holy shit, that could work. I'm gonna write this down for a future date, when i have friends near-by that share this interest. that was the saddest sentence of my life. But i just thoughtn of someone who could help.
 

machineiv

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whaleswiththumbs said:
Holy shit, that could work. I'm gonna write this down for a future date, when i have friends near-by that share this interest. that was the saddest sentence of my life. But i just thoughtn of someone who could help.
For bonus points, you could post your notes online so we can see what you came up with.