Suggest an MMORPG that's BETTER than World of Warcraft

Notshauna

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I think most MMOs are actually better than WoW. The only difference is that WoW has one thing it hits right out of the park and that's raiding. WoW's continued success is really mostly due to the amount of cash they can pump into it and it's cultural inertia. When someone thinks of a MMO they think of WoW, and that alone is enough to cause it to do well. In reality despite every non-raiding aspect of the game being mediocre at best, the uninformed consumer still props up this giant.

As for the one I like the best, Guild Wars 2. It's not perfect by any means but it's the only modern MMO that actually functions in the open world. Every other one stumbles on some level, either due to class design not being robust enough or the game being inherently competitive.
 

Sangnz

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WhiteWolfe said:
Sangnz said:
- Less overall abilities, only 8 on your bar at a time a heal, 3 picked and 4 determined by your weapon.
Not to nitpick, but there's actually 10 (5 weapon, 1 heal, 3 utility, 1 elite) + class abilities (which varies from 1 for warriors to I believe 4 for engineers).

I would recommend GW2, but know ahead of time that it is much more focused on leveling and then personal goals, as there isn't a gear grind or any real sort of gating like other MMOs.
Oops been a while :)
 

Clive Howlitzer

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City of Heroes. The best 'theme parky' MMO there ever was. Sadly, it is dead and gone so you can't even play it. Thanks a lot, NCSoft.

As far as embodying what I think the strengths of an MMO are, I'd also say EVE. The ideal MMO in my eyes is totally player focused and they don't even waste time with the quest bullshit. Since any questing in an MMO is just going to feel inferior to what could have been done in a cooperative or singleplayer RPG.
 

Nazulu

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Jun 5, 2008
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Clive Howlitzer said:
City of Heroes. The best 'theme parky' MMO there ever was. Sadly, it is dead and gone so you can't even play it. Thanks a lot, NCSoft.
So NC Soft screwed that one too. Did they try copying WoW in as many ways possible before dropping it? Or any other changes? Or did it just become unpopular?
 

infohippie

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The two MMOs I play, both MUCH better than WoW in my opinion, are Guild Wars 2 and Tera Online.

GW2 has some wonderful changes to many of the traditional MMO formulae, for instance the mechanic of "tagging" mobs. In GW2, if you fight an enemy, you get credit for it. Simple as that. Doesn't matter who hit it first, if two people hit it they both get full XP and loot from it. This makes spontaneous grouping possible without even needing to formally party with other players. I've frequently seen players fighting a dangerous elite mob of one kind or another, and passing players just jump in and help out in the fight, heading off on their separate ways again once the monster is defeated.

Tera is more of a traditional MMO, but it has the benefit of a much better action-based combat system than games like WoW. There is no tab targeting, you have to manually aim all your skills and abilities as well as dodging enemy attacks in various ways. This makes normally dull roles such as healer much more involved and interesting since you not only have to monitor your cooldowns and party members health and debuffs, but you must remain aware of everyone's position and movement while keeping yourself positioned to aim your heals where they will be most effective.
In addition, there are mobs known as BAMs (Big-Ass Monsters, and yes that is the official term) in many areas which are like mini-bosses. They require tactics to defeat and are best suited for small groups to attack though it is possible to solo them if you know how to play your class well and keep on the move so as not to be hit by their devastating attacks. I have never had so much fun in an MMO as in Tera, trying to solo a BAM with a squishy class such as a sorcerer. It was great to be so mobile throughout the fight, getting in close to deliver a barrage of damage, dodging back out before it can land an attack, teleporting behind to get a strike on its vulnerable back then trying to keep out of the way of its claws as it turns...
Also, you can play as adorable cat girls and bunny girls if you want to. What's not to like?
 

Clive Howlitzer

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Nazulu said:
Clive Howlitzer said:
City of Heroes. The best 'theme parky' MMO there ever was. Sadly, it is dead and gone so you can't even play it. Thanks a lot, NCSoft.
So NC Soft screwed that one too. Did they try copying WoW in as many ways possible before dropping it? Or any other changes? Or did it just become unpopular?
It was subscription based and quite good. It then became F2P and while it was still good, it rapidly went downhill by forcing to pay for content that used to be free. It only lasted a year after that and then they chose to close it down completely. For my understanding, it was still profitable when they closed it down and there were offers to buy it from them but they turned it down. There was quite a big fight to get them to keep it open for awhile.

It still has an oddly dedicated fanbase, despite being closed since 2012. I believe someone is in talks with NCSoft to license the game to get the servers back up with a fresh slate as they were when closed. That'd be sweet. I am sure most people today would find the game a bit dated though but I would sure enjoy it.
 

Nazulu

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Jun 5, 2008
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Clive Howlitzer said:
Nazulu said:
Clive Howlitzer said:
City of Heroes. The best 'theme parky' MMO there ever was. Sadly, it is dead and gone so you can't even play it. Thanks a lot, NCSoft.
So NC Soft screwed that one too. Did they try copying WoW in as many ways possible before dropping it? Or any other changes? Or did it just become unpopular?
It was subscription based and quite good. It then became F2P and while it was still good, it rapidly went downhill by forcing to pay for content that used to be free. It only lasted a year after that and then they chose to close it down completely. For my understanding, it was still profitable when they closed it down and there were offers to buy it from them but they turned it down. There was quite a big fight to get them to keep it open for awhile.

It still has an oddly dedicated fanbase, despite being closed since 2012. I believe someone is in talks with NCSoft to license the game to get the servers back up with a fresh slate as they were when closed. That'd be sweet. I am sure most people today would find the game a bit dated though but I would sure enjoy it.
After looking at some old game play vids it actually looks like something right up my alley. I just wish it wasn't owned my NC Soft though. They'd probably make it play more like WoW if they bring it out again.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

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Nov 28, 2010
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Lufia Erim said:
Final fantasy 14:A realm reborn ( soon to be heavensward).

Snip.
I second all of this.

Shanicus said:
While I'm hopelessly hooked on the WoW IV, I've heard pretty good things about Final Fantasy XIV. Final Fantasy XI was also apparently pretty solid, but I dunno if that's supported/still alive anymore.
FFXI is still supported, but it was very group intensive / not solo friendly in its beginnings and while I have heard the great strides have been made to rebalance that - since the game was originally based around group play it's done very odd things to the dynamics that not all of the people who stuck with it are very happy about. I left some years ago to give fuller attention to college work and didn't return, but I play FFXIV with many of my friends from FFXI who migrated when the game started getting strange in its final years. Also, while it is still supported as I mentioned, it's been recently announced that they are done with it as far as building or adding anything new goes.
 

Apostheum

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I'm surprised so many people mention FFXIV. I tried it in earnest and after having tried every class up to level 15.I realized I just couldn't get behind the ridiculous global cooldown and the "animation cooldown". It didn't feel tight, it didn't feel snappy.

Even in WoW, which I today no longer like, nor play. At least combat was spot-on from day one. :/
 

kitsunefather

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Nov 29, 2010
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The Secret World-
Lovecraftian Modern Horror with a classless development system that allows you to learn all abilities if you put in the effort, while weaving an interesting story (if you're into that kind of thing). Free-to-play, with no paywall until high level storylines.

Star Trek Online-
Basically, playing a Star Trek TV series with your character as the star. You get an away team if you don't feel like finding groups, and the entire universe of pre-reboot Trek timeline to play with. Continually adding new quests and storylines; currently in "Season 10". Free-to-play, with no paywall except for cosmetics.

Final Fantasy 14-
Really does feel like a FF universe, with a competently structured Job system and a serious focus on creating a deep world. Subbed, but with a 14-day trial.

Star Wars the Old Republic-
It's WoW in Star Wars, basically, with a bit more choice involved in the Talent Trees. The main strength is in the story and setting (if you are a SW fan), and that some of the Class Stories are exceptionally written (while others are absolute dross). Free-to-play, but it's EA, so paywall coming out its tits; currently 12x Exp on Class stories for subs, but normally ftp players get restricted hotkey bars, restricted credit banking, restricted access to guilds, and cannot accept some quest items (most importantly Artifact Items and Cash Boxes).

City of Heroes-
Best community I've found in MMOs, with a rich Class structure that favors both solo- and team-play, and a variety of Classes beyond "hit things fast", "hit things hard", and "hit things far". In particular, the Crowd Control in it is top notch, and the Mastermind Class allows you to summon your own allied NPCs. Greatest flaw is that it was shut down because it broke even as a Free-to-play game.
 

kitsunefather

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Nov 29, 2010
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Clive Howlitzer said:
Nazulu said:
Clive Howlitzer said:
City of Heroes. The best 'theme parky' MMO there ever was. Sadly, it is dead and gone so you can't even play it. Thanks a lot, NCSoft.
So NC Soft screwed that one too. Did they try copying WoW in as many ways possible before dropping it? Or any other changes? Or did it just become unpopular?
It was subscription based and quite good. It then became F2P and while it was still good, it rapidly went downhill by forcing to pay for content that used to be free. It only lasted a year after that and then they chose to close it down completely. For my understanding, it was still profitable when they closed it down and there were offers to buy it from them but they turned it down. There was quite a big fight to get them to keep it open for awhile.

It still has an oddly dedicated fanbase, despite being closed since 2012. I believe someone is in talks with NCSoft to license the game to get the servers back up with a fresh slate as they were when closed. That'd be sweet. I am sure most people today would find the game a bit dated though but I would sure enjoy it.
When they closed it down, it was because it wasn't securing more profit as a ftp game than as a subscription one. Currently NCSoft is courting a few studios to purchase them (they acquired the Korean version of PayPal last year), but it looks like the best prospect for that sale would require them selling off the licenses and properties that are no longer proving profitable.

Their handling of City of Heroes is why I've never been able to even hold a passing interest in Blade and Soul or Wildstar.
 

Fappy

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Shanicus said:
Fappy said:
I'm not sure I'd say it is objectively better than WoW, but I recently started playing ESO and enjoy it a lot. It has some half-decent design choices and the PVP is easily the best I've seen in an MMO (and I have played WoW, GW2, ToR and some others). Also, it's in the Elder Scrolls universe, so if you dig the lore that's an added bonus.
Quick question, how is the PvE aspect of ESO? I hear lots of praise for it's PvP system (though given WoW's PvP system, it's honestly not hard to beat it), but from what I hear the PvE suffers a bit due to it being Skyrim-ish + Latency? I've been lookin' at ESO as a casual fix due to how cheap it's gotten, but dunno if the PvE experience is robust enough to sink some dollars into.
I'm not max level but my experience with dungeons and leveling content has been fun so far. I honestly haven't seen any bad lag at all and the game runs smooth as butter on my system.
 

Lufia Erim

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Apostheum said:
I'm surprised so many people mention FFXIV. I tried it in earnest and after having tried every class up to level 15.I realized I just couldn't get behind the ridiculous global cooldown and the "animation cooldown". It didn't feel tight, it didn't feel snappy.

Even in WoW, which I today no longer like, nor play. At least combat was spot-on from day one. :/
To be fair, at level 15 you barely scratched the surface of the game. Few skills, few dungeons, not far into the story. You didn't really see anything. But i guess if the game didn't hook you at that point, may as well give up. Also i had to google animation cooldown because i had no idea that was a thing.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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kitsunefather said:
Clive Howlitzer said:
Nazulu said:
Clive Howlitzer said:
City of Heroes. The best 'theme parky' MMO there ever was. Sadly, it is dead and gone so you can't even play it. Thanks a lot, NCSoft.
So NC Soft screwed that one too. Did they try copying WoW in as many ways possible before dropping it? Or any other changes? Or did it just become unpopular?
It was subscription based and quite good. It then became F2P and while it was still good, it rapidly went downhill by forcing to pay for content that used to be free. It only lasted a year after that and then they chose to close it down completely. For my understanding, it was still profitable when they closed it down and there were offers to buy it from them but they turned it down. There was quite a big fight to get them to keep it open for awhile.

It still has an oddly dedicated fanbase, despite being closed since 2012. I believe someone is in talks with NCSoft to license the game to get the servers back up with a fresh slate as they were when closed. That'd be sweet. I am sure most people today would find the game a bit dated though but I would sure enjoy it.
When they closed it down, it was because it wasn't securing more profit as a ftp game than as a subscription one. Currently NCSoft is courting a few studios to purchase them (they acquired the Korean version of PayPal last year), but it looks like the best prospect for that sale would require them selling off the licenses and properties that are no longer proving profitable.

Their handling of City of Heroes is why I've never been able to even hold a passing interest in Blade and Soul or Wildstar.
I won't ever buy another game from NCSoft because of them killing off City of Heroes. I miss that game on a regular basis and this is coming from someone who generally dislikes MMOs.
 

TranshumanistG

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I'd say that EVE Online is better than WoW because it provides for much more interesting player interaction. Players can attack each other in virtually anywhere (although in some places it's much more risky than in others) and loot all the stuff left on the exploded ship. The economy is much more dependent on players themselves crafting and selling items than on NPC vendors magically putting them out of their pockets. Player corporations can contest and take control of areas, enforcing their own rules on them.
Additionally, CCCP are much more supportive of third-party application development and even provide exports of their static data and an API for real-time queries.
 

elvor0

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Apostheum said:
I'm surprised so many people mention FFXIV. I tried it in earnest and after having tried every class up to level 15.I realized I just couldn't get behind the ridiculous global cooldown and the "animation cooldown". It didn't feel tight, it didn't feel snappy.

Even in WoW, which I today no longer like, nor play. At least combat was spot-on from day one. :/
I'm sure (or would bloody well hope so) that it's been fixed by now but the hit detection in that game was awful. The combat wasn't tight or snappy. Not only with boss animations not line up with their abilities, how or when the game deemed you "out" of a damage zone was anyones guess. This constantly happened and put me off playing the game at any proper level once I'd hit the level cap, if you want me to raid, game, you need to make sure your hit detection is polished to perfection, I do not want to be being hit by fucking rocks that I moved away from 2 seconds ago, most of the time. It wasn't like I was lagging, or this happened in WoW. If you got hit, it was your own damn fault.

Playing Dragoon was horrible as well. It required Stand behind, use three abilities in a set order, then move to the /side/ of an enemy and perform three different abilities in a set order, but the side of an enemy is rather....ambiguous, and on many enemies was unfairly small given the size of the enemy. If you didn't use your side abilites on the 1mm that counted as the side, or the boss turned half a degree, bad luck for you friend, go stand behind and start again. No procs no nothing. Rinse, repeat, uninstall.

Story was nothing to write home about in my opinion, especially in the 30/40 bracket where I was gathering food to "summon Titan" which turned out actually to be a complete waste of time as it was just to "prove my worth". Fuck you game. Fuck you. I think the only thing that kept the three of us interested was pretending the characters were Star Wars characters instead. Not only that, there were a lot of missions where you couldn't play as a group, so you'd have to disband and meet up later. It's an MMO, why are you forcing me to disband my group, game?

Crafting system was fun though, as was having a chocobo companion. Having to turn into a Miner where you couldn't do jack shit but mine wasn't though. I just want to collect that bit of ore for fuck sake.

Anyway OT: Personally, if you're going to play a hot key based MMO, I'd personally say your only real options are GW 2 or WoW. WoW's in a bit of a pickle at the moment, but it still has oodles more content than a lot of other MMOs put together and has the polish other games can only dream of. GW2 because it's "free" and still really good.

For action based, TERA.

For other (or a love for numbers), see EVE.
 

Amarsir

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City of Heroes was my first love in MMOs, and the faster pace of movement and enemies completely spoiled me for WoW. I didn't stick with it until the end, as the Incarnate stuff was the sort of endgame that I don't like. (I should never have to memorize what gets done in what order for what reward. Every MMO that tries to make me do that loses me.) But I agree with others that the way NCSoft treated it at the end was awful and I won't forgive them for it even though I wasn't playing at the time.

(To be fair, they also made mistakes like not doing server merges, for the sole reason that two players named FireFreeze03 might run into each other.)

Fortunately some of the aspects of CoH lived on, or were improved upon in DC Universe Online. Which is something I would have mentioned to OP on this topic anyway.

What I need in an MMO these days, what I can't get from WoW or SW:ToR or any traditional button rotation setup, is fast fun combat. DCUO has one of the best combat systems I've seen. Block/Melee/Range is a rock/paper/scissors for outplaying targets in combat (PvE and PvP). Mouse clicks combinations create weapon combos, while numbers 1-6 fire a selection of powers. There's a nice skill curve on build combinations, choice of attacks, timing, position, angles, destructible objects, and other factors.

Unfortunately they lost me about 2 years ago by roughing up their own leveling system in order to add more grind. The game levels to 30 via xp, adding powers and skills along the way. But after 30 you transition seamlessly to gear score to keep leveling (upwards of 100 now.) That's great, but around the 80s you get to a point where practically speaking you need to be 84 to run content marked 82, which gives gear at 83 which you use crafting to modify to 87, so you can run content marked 85. And if you managed to make it through that sentence and remember what I said above, you'll understand why that annoyed me.

Still, a lot of cleverness to DCUO's design and it's worth trying out at least up to 30. (It's F2P to that part and a bit beyond, then you can subscribe or buy DLC packages.) In addition to the combat I also really like how they improved on the Holy Trinity. As City of Heroes introduced Controllers to the world, DCUO improved on that. Healers manage your health bar. Controllers manage your energy bar (in addition to CC stuff of course). Tanks are tanks, and *everyone* is DPS: it's a mode you toggle between DPS and T/H/C so you can solo or fill either role. Other games should totally steal these ideas.

But as I said I moved on. If you're open to a more flexible definition of MMO, try Planetside 2 or Warframe. The former is a hardcore FPS, no auto aim and no PvE. But there's a large world with 1200 players per continent instance, leveling, weapons to earn to generate builds with, and other things an MMO player might like. However I repeat, it's very hardcore PVP. Be prepared for the steepest learning curve of any game I've ever played. Ever.

Warframe on the other hand is a lobby-based MMO. You're a Space Ninja and you start out on your ship and may not see another player for your first few missions (which are an introductory quest). But it makes for easy grouping in 4-person missions (8-player raids being new endgame). Lots and lots of gear to acquire and build with, including 22 different Warframes (comparable to character classes) that you can switch between. It's a blend of first person shooter, with melee combos and 4 powers on each Warframe. And the developers are constantly putting out new content, all free. (If you're familiar with Destiny for console, it's fairly comparable. Except it's on PC as well as both consoles.)

So if your MMO tendencies favor a bit of excitement, I'd definitely check out DCUO, Warframe, and PS2. But I'll warn you that if you do get into them you'll probably be spoiled for all 6-toolbar button-rotation fighting ever again.
 

Xerosch

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I'm all for Final Fantasy 14, too. I don't play online, but something about this game got me so hooked that I had an active subscirption since its relaunch with only short pauses in between. Maybe its the constant rewards you get in one form or another. I've played WoW for some time as well, but never got invested enough to do stuff beyond the basic Burning Crusade addon (even though I own all Addons for some reason).

FF XIV gives you a lot to do. And there is so much additional stuff you can do after you've reached level 50, even more after you completed the main storyline. But the most important factor for me is that in two years of playing I've only had a single mildly bad experience with another player. Can't say that for a lot of other MMOs.