Super Hero Fatigue

gorfias

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It is reported that The Marvels has completed its run after only 3 weeks and made less than $200 million World Wide. It broke every record for failure the MCU has ever experienced performing more weakly than Ed Norton's take on the Hulk.

This is in part due to "super hero fatigue". Others say it is more an issue with bad writing.

Some argue there is a chicken/egg issue. Bad writing is an inevitable sign of fatigue with a genre.

Example:


For my own part, The Marvels is probably the 1st MCU movie I've skipped in theaters. Some combo of fatigue and hearing the thing was a car crash. The 1st trailer I saw looked like an episode of Power Rangers crossed with Spy Kids 4.

But I'm loving the Boys, Generation V, Invincible, The Suicide Squad and the Peace Maker. I'm still watching a lot of this stuff.

I think the next big movie is from DC, Aquaman 2. So far I intend to see it.



Your thoughts?
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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The Marvels had the worst debut, the sharpest second week drop and is overall the lowest grossing MCU movie ever.

People throw around "superhero fatigue", but this is also the year of Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (4th best box office after Barbie, Mario and Oppenheimer), Spider-Verse 2 and Gen V/Invincible.

"But they couldn't promote the movie" doesn't account for the success of every other movie that made bank in that same period of time. Especially when two thirds of your cast are basically unknown TV actors.

As always it boils down to a bunch of reasons. The Marvels is 33rd in a long assembly line of product with a tepid, confusing (and downright deceitful) relationship to the movies that came before it. The trailers never settled the tone of the thing, the dev hell rumors killed the hype, it wasn't promoted by the actors (but then again didn't star any A-Listers outside of Brie Larson) and Disney didn't do itself any favors by bloating the budget. You can't spend 275 million plus 1.5x in publicity on a movie that looks so lazy and inconsequential and is gonna show up on streaming anyway not long after.

Oh the reviews didn't do the movie any favors. I think it's 50ish/100 on Metacritic.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Comicbook movies are just too fucking expensive to follow a structure similar to actual comicbooks. And the reason a lot of people don't get into superhero comics, even nerds, is because there's so much of it it's hard to tell what's worthy of your attention and what isn't. And Disney is now doing this in movie form, with both Marvel and Star Wars. It's no surprise the enthusiasm from the general public has started to seriously dip.

And I don't see Disney stepping back to try and reassess the situation. Studios never do. They'll just try and get to X-Men and The Fantastic Four as quickly (and poorly) as they can. Not realizing the flood of Marvel is what's making people tune out and going to things like Barbie instead.
 

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Mediocrity fatigue is more like it. Superheroes ain't the only one with this problem.

 
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Dirty Hipsters

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I think the biggest problem with the new slate of Marvel and DC movies is "the multiverse."

It allows for constant reboots, reimaginings, actor changes, and "what ifs" that are good for the studios because it doesn't permanently tie them to any bad decisions, but it's also the worst part of comic books translated to film. It means that nothing in these movies matters, there's no real continuity because at any moment the studio can say "well that took place in universe 114 so that doesn't count" and overall just makes the movies more confusing and impenetrable for a casual audience. It's hard to get excited about something that can be retconned at any moment on the whim of the studio.

It's also hard to be excited about a movie that requires you to have watched 18 other movies and 3 shows to understand what it even is. My dad tried to watch Ahsoka and I had to explain to him that the reason he didn't know who any of the characters were was because he hadn't watched 11 seasons of children's cartoons in preparation.
 

gorfias

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Comicbook movies are just too fucking expensive to follow a structure similar to actual comicbooks. And the reason a lot of people don't get into superhero comics, even nerds, is because there's so much of it it's hard to tell what's worthy of your attention and what isn't. And Disney is now doing this in movie form, with both Marvel and Star Wars. It's no surprise the enthusiasm from the general public has started to seriously dip.

And I don't see Disney stepping back to try and reassess the situation. Studios never do. They'll just try and get to X-Men and The Fantastic Four as quickly (and poorly) as they can. Not realizing the flood of Marvel is what's making people tune out and going to things like Barbie instead.
Yeah, getting married and having kids definitely put a 2 decade long hamper on my comic book buying! Though I haven't gone back totally as games and movies are a thing now that they weren't then. More below...

I think the biggest problem with the new slate of Marvel and DC movies is "the multiverse."

It allows for constant reboots, reimaginings, actor changes, and "what ifs" that are good for the studios because it doesn't permanently tie them to any bad decisions, but it's also the worst part of comic books translated to film. It means that nothing in these movies matters, there's no real continuity because at any moment the studio can say "well that took place in universe 114 so that doesn't count" and overall just makes the movies more confusing and impenetrable for a casual audience. It's hard to get excited about something that can be retconned at any moment on the whim of the studio.

It's also hard to be excited about a movie that requires you to have watched 18 other movies and 3 shows to understand what it even is. My dad tried to watch Ahsoka and I had to explain to him that the reason he didn't know who any of the characters were was because he hadn't watched 11 seasons of children's cartoons in preparation.
I think they can easily get away with having a ton of fun with the multi-verse as long as they don't do that other thing you reference: make you have to see other things to understand the movie you ARE seeing. That sort of thing made me largely quit reading comics back with Marvel Secret Wars.

I don't recall which ones (Asohka?) but Disney's Star Wars is not helping themselves either when I hear you needed to watch other series and movies to have any idea who these people and what is going on.
 

hanselthecaretaker2

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For reference -

There are seven movies left; two in Phase Six and five in Phase Seven. That will be forty films in just under twenty years.

Contrast that with Ian Fleming’s Bond films, of which there have been twenty seven in just under sixty years. That’s spanning several generations of time.

Someone born the year Iron Man came out won’t even be able to legally have a drink yet by the time the last *planned* Marvel flick hits theaters. It’s kind of a shame too, because that’s become quite a neat thing to partake in at the cinema as of late.
 

Elvis Starburst

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It's also hard to be excited about a movie that requires you to have watched 18 other movies and 3 shows to understand what it even is. My dad tried to watch Ahsoka and I had to explain to him that the reason he didn't know who any of the characters were was because he hadn't watched 11 seasons of children's cartoons in preparation.
I've never been big on super heroes, but this and the general mediocrity of many current super movie's quality is exactly why I never intent to start. I'm also really annoyed by important details being shown at the end of credits, or being hidden in other pieces of media (like video games, Palpatine returning being a prime example). I understand the attempt to drum up hype, but I shouldn't have to wait around or check out supplementary material later on just to figure out how and/or why things are happening
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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I've never been big on super heroes, but this and the general mediocrity of many current super movie's quality is exactly why I never intent to start. I'm also really annoyed by important details being shown at the end of credits, or being hidden in other pieces of media (like video games, Palpatine returning being a prime example).
Palpatine returning is just an ass-pull. It didn't happen off-screen in other media, it was never referenced prior to the movie coming out. They're now shoving that into some of the prequel media (like Bad Batch) to try and justify it retroactively.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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It might be more a general action movie fatigue. Between Barbie, Mario and Oppenheimer, the big winners this year were a comedy, a kids movie and a historical biopic. I'm not saying that action movies aren't still popular, but not to the point they're guaranteed to make tons of money.
 
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Cicada 5

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There are numerous animated movies that bombed this year alone. No one is talking about "animated movie fatigue". Marvel has a few flops and people start yelling that the sky is falling.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Still an asspull either way; you're not wrong.
Having the Palpatine voice actor in Battlefront (a game that already features Palpatine as a playable character I think) voicing a line about the Sith returning does not count as "Palpatine returning off-screen." Unless a piece of media actually showed Palpatine surviving or being resurrected/cloned it doesn't count as an explanation for his return.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Having the Palpatine voice actor in Battlefront (a game that already features Palpatine as a playable character I think) voicing a line about the Sith returning does not count as "Palpatine returning off-screen." Unless a piece of media actually showed Palpatine surviving or being resurrected/cloned it doesn't count as an explanation for his return.
That is actually Fortnite, but I think what Elvis is referring to is this sound bite from Palps is canon. The opening crawl of TROS references Palpatine's broadcast to the galaxy about his return, and is the reason why Kylo Ren was hunting him down in the beginning of the movie.

So to do such a thing in a video game, much less Fortnite, is just... weird.

I mean they definitely didn't decide to edit the movie just to have that collaboration with Fortnite, they probably thought they could reuse some leftover dialogue that was cut. But the optics aren't great.
 
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Elvis Starburst

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That is actually Fortnite, but I think what Elvis is referring to is this sound bite from Palps is canon. The opening crawl of TROS references Palpatine's broadcast to the galaxy about his return, and is the reason why Kylo Ren was hunting him down in the beginning of the movie.
Yup, you've got it right.

So to do such a thing in a video game, much less Fortnite, is just... weird.
Weird and extremely stupid if you ask me... cause of course it had to be Fortnite, because it was ripe for a collab opportunity considering its popularity at the time. Now, if this sound bite was a little fun extra reference of some kind, sure. The fact they made that sound bite canon is what has me bothered.
When I learned Palpatine was alive, I first learned that after the Fortnite event, and then I got to learn it originated from the game. The whiplash from learning both things were real, in reverse order no less, was unbelievably confusing
 

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Having the Palpatine voice actor in Battlefront (a game that already features Palpatine as a playable character I think) voicing a line about the Sith returning does not count as "Palpatine returning off-screen." Unless a piece of media actually showed Palpatine surviving or being resurrected/cloned it doesn't count as an explanation for his return.
Fortnite actually.

That is actually Fortnite, but I think what Elvis is referring to is this sound bite from Palps is canon. The opening crawl of TROS references Palpatine's broadcast to the galaxy about his return, and is the reason why Kylo Ren was hunting him down in the beginning of the movie.

So to do such a thing in a video game, much less Fortnite, is just... weird.

I mean they definitely didn't decide to edit the movie just to have that collaboration with Fortnite, they probably thought they could reuse some leftover dialogue that was cut. But the optics aren't great.
Took the words right out of my mouth.

There are numerous animated movies that bombed this year alone. No one is talking about "animated movie fatigue". Marvel has a few flops and people start yelling that the sky is falling.
Actually, during the summer of 2023, there were people/"concerned citizens" on YouTube "panicking", and claiming how "nobody" wants to see original animated movies nor original ideas anymore. When that was never the case. Animated movies were not the only ones that was suffering earlier in the summer. Both live action and animated movies released at the box office didn't well, because there were too many released so close together at the same time. The ladies grifters and click baiters you would think it's the end of the world for movies or something. This went on for a little bit, but it didn't stay as long. There's a little panic only happen because Elemental didn't do as good as certain people wanted (Pixar is dead; waaahhh!!!), and Ruby Gilman completely bombed at the box office. The only reason Ruby bombed, was because DreamWorks didn't advertise the damn movie, had horrible marketing, and it was once again overcrowded. They're really crab reviews going way overboard that's actually good didn't know that. The good news is that the movie did well in the digital home market and on DVD/Blu-ray. So the movie could have definitely done well in theaters had DreamWorks actually advertised movie and actually held off on releasing around the same time as other big shows and blockbusters.
 

Xprimentyl

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I think the fatigue stems from how generally homogenized they've become, particularly the MCU. It's like the Taco Bell menu, i.e.: the same four ingredients as all the old shit, just layered in a different order for a "new" menu item. I can't think of a single moment from any MCU film that I could watch and know which film it was from. Hell, I couldn't even tell you which ones I've actually seen and which I haven't, they are all so exhaustingly the same. Then add in the requisite cameos of other heroes from their own titular series of films, and you've just got this glob of a mess that becomes just completely uninteresting to try and untangle.

That's pretty much why the only hero films you'll catch me wanting to see are Deadpool and Venom. The former because by his very nature, he pokes fun at the ridiculousness of the more austere whole of the MCU (and is R-rated respecting the fact that I'm not a child,) and the latter simply because 1.) he's my favorite character, and the way they realized him for the big screen finally nailed it, and 2.) because he has not, as yet, been dragged into the convoluted mess of the MCU, but the end of the second film leads me to believe that might be coming to an end.
 

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I think the fatigue stems from how generally homogenized they've become, particularly the MCU. It's like the Taco Bell menu, i.e.: the same four ingredients as all the old shit, just layered in a different order for a "new" menu item. I can't think of a single moment from any MCU film that I could watch and know which film it was from. Hell, I couldn't even tell you which ones I've actually seen and which I haven't, they are all so exhaustingly the same. Then add in the requisite cameos of other heroes from their own titular series of films, and you've just got this glob of a mess that becomes just completely uninteresting to try and untangle.

That's pretty much why the only hero films you'll catch me wanting to see are Deadpool and Venom. The former because by his very nature, he pokes fun at the ridiculousness of the more austere whole of the MCU (and is R-rated respecting the fact that I'm not a child,) and the latter simply because 1.) he's my favorite character, and the way they realized him for the big screen finally nailed it, and 2.) because he has not, as yet, been dragged into the convoluted mess of the MCU, but the end of the second film leads me to believe that might be coming to an end.
My favorite superhero movies are usually ones that either aren't related to the MCU/DCEU, or stand on their own (if they take place in that universe). Preferably the superhero movies I do enjoy are ones that are their own thing and don't involve either DC or Marvel, nor try to completely follow their footsteps. Though I find myself more interested in superhero games than movies. And my personal favorites are usually the ones that originally started in gaming and are not based off of an comic book IP.

I admit: I do prefer most of the DCEU movies over the Phase 2 Marvel movies and and most of Phase 3. The only Phase 4 Marvel movies I enjoyed have been three: Guardians 3, Shang-Chi, and Wakanda Forever. I have touched none of the TV shows, and the rest of these movies do not interest me in the slightest.
 
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