Surprise Surprise, Germany Shooting Linked To Games

Logan Westbrook

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Feb 21, 2008
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Surprise Surprise, Germany Shooting Linked To Games


This week, Tim Kretschmer murdered 15 people before killing himself in the German town of Winnenden. He also played videogames. You can probably guess what happened next.

The Times [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5908602.ece] has reported that Kretschmer had played Far Cry 2 the night before the shootings. A lot of significance is placed on the fact that the protagonist in Far Cry 2 wears black camouflage gear and wields a Beretta 92, which were mirrored in Kretschmer's choice of garment and weapon. It is also mentioned that Kretschmer played the games Counter-Strike and TacticalOps.

The Times quotes Lieutenant-Colonel Dave Grossman, a West Point psychology professor, who gave his opinion on violence in games: "You can see their influence in the way these school shooters aim and shoot accurately and move from one target to the next, moving through people dispassionately."

To give the Times credit however, they do also quote Walter Hollstein, a sociologist working with the Council of Europe, who disagreed with the Lieutenant-Colonel's assessment. "It's nonsense to assume they turn adolescents into school shooters," he said, "a variety of factors, such as helplessness, anger and loss of control, must come together for them to become the trigger, but the games themselves don't make anyone a killer."

Apparently Kretschmer was a spoiled, gun obsessed youth, with a secret predilection for bondage pornography and had withdrawn from a lot of his former friends. His father, a wealthy businessman who also had a passion for firearms and owned 15 guns himself, had taught his son to shoot at the age of eight and just three weeks before the killings had allowed his son to take the pistol to the gun range to "practice his aim."

All sources suggest that Kretschmer was a troubled young man, who was drawn to violent games because of his violent leanings and not a healthy individual turned into a monster by videogames. But as we've all learned by now, people see what they want to see.




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Inverse Skies

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Feb 3, 2009
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Sigh. They keep on trying to blame video games for problems they haven't caused and most likely haven't even exacerbated. This is just another example of sensationalist journalism without much substance or depth. Luckily we know to ignore it, but the general public as a whole wont, which only serves to drag our names through the muck. Sad really.
 

oliveira8

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nilcypher said:
Apparently Kretschmer was a spoiled, gun obsessed youth, with a secret predilection for bondage pornography and had withdrawn from a lot of his former friends. His father, a wealthy businessman who also had a passion for firearms and owned 15 guns himself, had taught his son to shoot at the age of eight and just three weeks before the killings had allowed his son to take the pistol to the gun range to "practice his aim."
Yup its totally Farcry 2 and Counter-Strike fault...
 

fix-the-spade

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Feb 25, 2008
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oliveira8 said:
nilcypher said:
Apparently Kretschmer was a spoiled, gun obsessed youth, with a secret predilection for bondage pornography and had withdrawn from a lot of his former friends. His father, a wealthy businessman who also had a passion for firearms and owned 15 guns himself, had taught his son to shoot at the age of eight and just three weeks before the killings had allowed his son to take the pistol to the gun range to "practice his aim."
Yup its totally Farcry 2 and Counter-Strike fault...
Indeed, who'd have thought half a lifetime's worth of exposure to firearms, firing training and social detachment could be caused by a five month old game...
 

Arbre

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Jan 13, 2007
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The same message is hammered on radios.

These people are cowards and ignoramuses. They refuse to understand that what leads one person to such despair has shit to do with video games.

Of course, if we lived in a world with much less glorified real violence, perhaps our entertainment would reflect this other reality.

Hell, I have killed millions of people. Not only people. All sorts of creatures, sentient or not. Was there passion in that? Oh yes, there was. I LOVED it. I did not feel an ounce of remorse. Corpses of all shapes and colours, writhing or exploding in geysers of bitmap fluids. Countless houses and buildings left burning in my wake.

But it was not real. Real pain and suffering makes me cry. Not games.

This Lieutenant-Colonel Dave Grossguy is an idiot.
 

L.B. Jeffries

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Nov 29, 2007
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Mark David Chapman obsessively read Catcher in the Rye before shooting John Lennon. Does reading Salinger make people want to kill celebrities?

Timothy McVeigh's favorite flavor of ice cream was Ben & Jerry's Mint Chocolate Chip. He had two pints before he was executed. Does eating it make me want to blow up Federal buildings?

Jeffrey Dahmer's favorite horror film is Hellraiser III. Does watching it make me want to murder and eat people?

Last time I checked, no. Neither did playing Far Cry 2 make me want to go on a shooting spree.
 

elemenetal150

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I think it is funny that all the other things he does like BDSM porn and social with drawl along with his constant relationship wit firearms since he was young, has less to do with this guy going ape shit then him playing video games according the the article.

This is just what the media and conservative investigators love to use as a scapegoat. It can't be that the dude was picked on and was bat shit crazy to begin with it has to be the video games.
 

Rusman

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I just laugh at these stories now. And they always end with the shooter killing himself... Just wondering as I haven't played Far Cry 2 myself but after killing a bunch of people does the protagonist then turn the gun on himself as well... If he does then I totally blame the game.
 

li-ion

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Dec 19, 2008
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Gun-nuts have a stronger lobby than gamers. Politicians want to win elections and apparently the majority of voters still don't know shit about games. So the perfect scapegoat.

At least some media (e.g. http://www.zeit.de/online/2009/12/killerspiele-verbot-winnenden-waffen - warning, it's german ;)) don't jump on the train to join the burning of witches, but they are few.
 

historybuff

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Feb 15, 2009
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Gosh, if only parents took responsibility for their children....

It's ridiculous. Gaming is an easy scapegoat because, man, doing something with your children other then sitting them in front of the television is too much like work. Parents are lazy these days and just blame the problems they have on others.
 

thiosk

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While the games are not turning people into killers, I do think games help in the strategic aspect of gunplay. Gang bangers hold the guns sideways and seem to be more interested in spraying bullets innacurratly. However, gamers can understand things about ammo conservation, pacing... flight sims teach people to fly so it follows that combat sims can impart the main concepts about combat. Thats what the lt-col was saying, I think, in how he was able to explain how this kid was able to mow people down with a baretta.

if aliens ever attack and I find myself with a shotgun and a submachinegun in a top secret government lab full of long corridors and fancy equipment, i'm totally going gordon on they assez.
 

rekabdarb

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L.B. Jeffries said:
Ted Kaczynski obsessively read Catcher in the Rye before mailing bombs out to innocent people. Does reading Salinger turn people into neo-luddite maniacs?

Timothy McVeigh's favorite flavor of ice cream was Ben & Jerry's Mint Chocolate Chip. He had two pints before he was executed. Does eating it make me want to blow up Federal buildings?

Jeffrey Dahmer's favorite horror film is Hellraiser III. Does watching it make me want to murder and eat people?

Last time I checked, no. Neither did playing Far Cry 2 make me want to go on a shooting spree.
you should email a newspaper or something saying this...
 

meglathon

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If anything, I think that this helps prove that as a society we can?t accepted that we failed a person in life and we look for a excuse that removes are guilt. If you look at this guy he seems to be a troubled fiend long before the shooting. I played Far Cry 2 and I did not go shoot up a school, but I also go have a gun crazed father and a bad childhood.
 

Jursa

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Oct 11, 2008
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Sorry but I laughed at this, apparently becoming a West Point psychology professor requires no actual understanding of psychology anymore. This was obviously not the games' fault, who the hell teaches their kid to shoot at the age of eight anyway, his father might have a lot of money but he obviously got it for being a brain donor... One more question, I've played through Far Cry 2 and I don't really get the part of the protagonist wearing black camouflage gear, I'm pretty sure it was brown/green-ish to meld into the environment, but who knows, maybe that's why I got discovered so quickly.
 

Skizle

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Feb 12, 2009
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nilcypher said:
But as we've all learned by now, people see what they want to see.
that about sums it up, but i can help but think people wont see the reality of what the true cause is.
 

scarbunny

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Aug 11, 2008
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Well shit who'd of thought it a teenager that played violent video games! I bet he's the only person in the who of Germany that played Far Cry 2.

FFS when will it become obvious that if violent games caused people to turn into nutters who shoot up schools then there would be no children left as they would have all gone postal and killed each other.
 

Gladion

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The only thing that comes to my mind is that it's hilarious how you can still blame video games, although it's commonly known he's been a mental case and he's been a lot into guns and all that shit :/
Besides, as far as I'm concerned, he didn't pick the gun because it was the one from Far Cry 2, but because it was the only one that he could get his hands on. Am I right?
 

L.B. Jeffries

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Rusman said:
I just laugh at these stories now. And they always end with the shooter killing himself... Just wondering as I haven't played Far Cry 2 myself but after killing a bunch of people does the protagonist then turn the gun on himself as well... If he does then I totally blame the game.
Pretty much yes, that's one of the endings you pick.

rekabdarb said:
you should email a newspaper or something saying this...
I put it in the comments of the article but I doubt it'll get noticed.