Survey Says Japanese Dislike Shooters

[Sennz0r]

Let's get into a bit of history here: The west has been conquered by guns (see the US and all the wars in Europe). Asia, and mainly Japan and China, have been built on a culture that's way more ancient than ours. They're into martial arts and ancient unexplainable magic. And to dig into the J-pop culture of today's society they're into Hello Kitty and colorful rainbows, not some grey-ish, gritty war environment with a protagonist who looks like he's on a strict steroid diet. I mean look at the games that come from Japan; they all got colorful environments and protagonists with bright spiky hair, the weirdest clothes you've ever seen covering their spaghetti-thin bodies.
Furthermore none of these characters wield guns except for the occasional gun that doesn't even shoot real bullets but some kind of magic entity, or a gun that at least has a blade attached to it. And this is mainly because Japan isn't as modern warfare violence-based as the almighty hyped-up America of today. Hell they even got Europe with them, 'cause we all like a good shooter over here.

Also, if there is violence in a Japanese game, please do tell how many of them involve killing humans, because I'll bet all of the these games can be counted on one hand. And even then I don't get to see a lot of maimed human bodies laying around with their heads shot off completely or some stray limbs in a corner somewhere.
It comes down to this: Japan is just not as trigger-happy as the rest of us, which I'm actually glad about. It means we get to play some casual stuff now and again instead of the never-ending flow of shooters coming from the US, although I still don't get how some people can enjoy themselves by baking virtual cakes...

Oh and don't get me wrong, I love shooters, but without a couple cultures who don't want to play or design them we'd have nothing but shooters, and I also like diversity.

 

[Sennz0r]

EDIT: Sorry for the double-post, I was browsing and noticed a post I wanted to comment on, then didn't realise my previous post was still the latest that was submitted.

(Oh and let's not forget about the black guy who dies first, can't EVER have a story without at least 1 black man dying!)

Eh, Gears of War anyone?

I do agree the black guy in movies and games tended to die alot, if not always. But it's become a lot less over time. But seriously, what kind of reverse racism would it be if you weren't allowed to kill anymore black people in games or movies? Sooner or later every skin color starts complaining that they get killed first or way too often blahblah, and then we're stuck with games where nobody ever gets killed (would sound like a nice thing to happen once in a while but it's not really an element in shooters, not everyone's Chuck Norris).

 

[Joeshie]

I think it is more to do with the fact they are not as based on skill and learning

Haha, what? FPS generally take more skill to be good at than a large majority of gaming genres. Certainly much more skill is required for FPS than it is for the unskillful RPGs.

Can you tell me that Westerners like a diverse range of games again?

I certainly can, because only taking the top 10 games that sell in America and basing a judgement of the games industry on those facts alone is wildly inaccurate.

If you want a list that people can take you seriously with, perhaps you should look at the top 100 selling games in America over the past year. Just to give you an idea, if you look at the top 100 list from America last year, you will see titles from all over the world from just about every genre imaginable. If you look at the top 100 list from Japan, you will see about 95 games from Japan from a very narrow amount of genres.

 

[meisnewbie]

" Just to give you an idea, if you look at the top 100 list from America last year, you will see titles from all over the world from just about every genre imaginable. If you look at the top 100 list from Japan, you will see about 95 games from Japan from a very narrow amount of genres."

Burden of proof mother Video gamer do you have it? You are using completely circular logic to support your otherwise completely void claims.

You claim that America has a diverse range of tastes.

I post a list that contradicts that claim, and while I fully admit that the list is skewed, you full on ignore the evidence right in front of your face and go on to claim that an imaginary top 100 list would fulfill your original claim.

You have not provided such a list, nor indicated what you are basing your empty claims on.

"Haha, what? FPS generally take more skill to be good at than a large majority of gaming genres."

The difference between an FPS and a dating sim is that in one the timing and location of your clicks matter.

" Certainly much more skill is required for FPS than it is for the unskillful RPGs."

My my my, using loaded language while begging the question.

Hey guys the moon is really hot it is hotter than the cold sun.
I like delicious cheese better because beef is disgusting

etc. etc. etc.

Just a question, but how many RPGs have you played, how much FPS have you played and what would you say your skill level regarding them is?

 

[rayman 101]

I don't want to be racest or prejudice, but when I look at this it just shows how stubborn most Japanese players are. I mean their games are also popular through out the other parts of the world, but not playing shooting games or western games because they aren't from Japan has stubborn written all over it.

EDIT: I wrote "there" instead of "their". Irs been corrected now.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Goodness, I never knew we had so many international cultural experts here!

Seriously, the amount of prejudice wrapped up as fact here astounds me. I might expect a "well, maybe they just don't go for that sort of thing over there", but this whole "they think they're the master race" and "they hate everything Western" load of bullhockey from people who seem to think they know about another country based on two small sections of their media... well, it's almost as funny as the people who essentially say "everyone on this website hates Americans" and "stupid foreigners should like our stuff" in the same paragraph.

(And yes, I'm an American. That makes it okay, right? I mean, isn't the current view "we can make fun of ourselves but everybody else better worship us"?)

The Japanese have a unique culture. I can say I'm honestly unsurprised that they don't go much for the whole "gritty realism with big guns and clenched teeth" segment of gaming. They seem more inclined towards whimsy, their own particular brand of humor (seriously, look up Pythagora Switch on YouTube sometime- it's bizarre yet hilarious) and the lithe-guy-with-a-big-sword sort of character. This is bad? Only if you A) don't like it AND B) think that everything you don't like should be shunned by everyone.

An example: Final Fantasy. I didn't like Cloud- I thought he was aloof to the point of arrogance, indecisive in a crisis and insecure... but I suppose I prefer more up-front and ready-to-go characters. Yet I did empathize with him a bit, because given his history, I suppose I could understand why he acted the way he did. But take Squall, who seemed to me a more American-action-hero type (in comparison, at least). And I could not STAND Squall. Where Cloud was aloof, Squall was flat-out overbearing. Everything he said and did as I played made me want to make him jump off the nearest high object a little more.

I finished FF7. I didn't get through an entire day's play of FF8.

But that's really neither here nor there, is it? Back to the point. Rather than simply put it down to different sensibilites or likes (long, flowing, impractical scarves on ninjas... c'mon, now), people want to say "oh, they're just backwards xenophobes, if they weren't they'd like our stuff as much as we do". It's like fanboyism taken to a global scale.

And I wasn't going to use any particular quote here, but I just had to reply to this:

Most Western characters aren't overly macho, save for a few notable exceptions. Most Western game characters look like, well, normal guys.

...wait, what? What "normal guys" are you talking about? Just taking from the FPS segment- I very seldom see anyone walking down the street who looks like Marcus Fenix, Turok, the Doomguy, etc., let alone the Master Chief (who would have to be a hulking monster even out of his armor), and if I DID see someone like that walking towards me, I'd cross the street very quickly. The only remotely normal-looking FPS character in recent history is Gordon Freeman... and I've never seen anyone in the real world who could pull off having a goatee like that.

Who are we using as the "normal guy" template here? Barry Bonds Jr.?

 

[Skrapt]

The Japanese don't play many western games for the same reason we don't play many Japanese games. All the translators seem to have a specific code of honour between these 2 areas in that they must under any circumstances make the dialogue and storyline indecipherable to the opposite group.

Seriously I can't stand playing games that haven't been translated properly, and I'm sure the Japanese share the same ideology.

 

[Alphavillain]

I think it is more to do with the fact they are not as based on skill and learning

Haha, what? FPS generally take more skill to be good at than a large majority of gaming genres. Certainly much more skill is required for FPS than it is for the unskillful RPGs.

Can you tell me that Westerners like a diverse range of games again?

I certainly can, because only taking the top 10 games that sell in America and basing a judgement of the games industry on those facts alone is wildly inaccurate.

If you want a list that people can take you seriously with, perhaps you should look at the top 100 selling games in America over the past year. Just to give you an idea, if you look at the top 100 list from America last year, you will see titles from all over the world from just about every genre imaginable. If you look at the top 100 list from Japan, you will see about 95 games from Japan from a very narrow amount of genres.

[Sigh] I didn't say that RPGs require SKILL: I said they require a high degree of learning how to perform different attacks, magic attacks, etc. And third-person action fighting games require a far higher degree of skill than most FPSs, or even third-person shooters (like GoW). Fact.

 

[Murian]

Here's something to think about as to why a whole genre of games may be much more popular in a given region:

Game development requires a lot of resources, and as you produce a game your staff are going to get more experienced in the specific areas related to the chosen game type. A company that makes FPS games is unlikely to make anything but FPS and can eventually lead to a company developing a single game theme or plot line. Have DICE ever made anything that wasn't a Battlefield game? they don't know anything else. ID and Valve spring to mind too.

So now you have a development community that has built up a specific skill set around the prevailent genre(s), which has largely been determined by the market forces. Generally the prevailing development skills in western gaming appears to be in extensive use of 3D graphics and an obsession with 'realism'. This influences the player base, which is why there's a massive mod community full of people who can make 3D models and the textures for them. More tastes are catered for and the genre tightens its grip.

Read whatever reasons you like into why this has prevailed (cultural or whatever) as they don't really matter, what does is that western games developers are now unlikey to make anything that doesn't include these traits because it's a) what they know how to make and b) what they know they can sell.

The same thing has happened in Japan with JRPGs, although they may not even be the truely dominant genre, it's just the one most frequently exported to the rest of us. Again, a dominant art style and development skill set developed and you get an easily recognisable type of game. Again, companies specialise, creating those like Nippon Ichi Software. Don't go thinking that games like this will require any less work compared to western games though, just a different type of work.

Then there are all the complications of selling in a country you may not know all that well as an explanation of why imported games may fail, in addition to the simple point that gamers simply may not like the (sometimes unfamiliar) content....but:

Only 38.1 percent of the Japanese gaming market enjoys one of the most profitable genres in North America

Only? So more than a third of the market likes FPS/TPS? Not exactly unpopular then...

 

[Joeshie]

And third-person action fighting games require a far higher degree of skill than most FPSs, or even third-person shooters (like GoW). Fact.

GoW takes very little skill. Go watch some Quake [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRMn1tj5-Nc], UT99 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAGscrNPpsE] or CS [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99QHmGRsXLc&feature=related] videos. They take far more skill to pull off moves than something like GoW does. Not that there is anything wrong with GoW, but it's rather slow. Don't assume that all FPS games are slow like CoD4 or Halo.

Fighting games do take skill, but so many times those games come down to who picks the best character, rather than who is the most skillful.

Burden of proof mother Video gamer do you have it? You are using completely circular logic to support your otherwise completely void claims.

Oh I has the burden of proof and I don't believe I ever made claims to the contrary.

Perhaps you should look up what circular logic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question] is, because you clearly don't have any idea what it means.

Premise: The list of best selling games in America [http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4691&Itemid=2] contains many overseas games from pretty much every single genre that was sold. (Can't count dating sims since they aren't sold in America)
Premise: The list of Japanese sales charts for 2005 or 2006 (I can't seem to find it at the moment, will try to find though) lacks several genres (FPS, RTS, MMO) and has a serious underrepresentation of other genres as well. Not to mention, less than 10 of the 100 games were foreign (I specifically remember this point as it was mentioned in the article I read that linked me to the Top 100 Japanese sales games).
Conclusion: The US has a much more diverse and greater appreciation for a wide variety of video games than Japan.

Oh boy, that sure was circular, wasn't it? /sarcasm

I post a list that contradicts that claim, and while I fully admit that the list is skewed, you full on ignore the evidence right in front of your face and go on to claim that an imaginary top 100 list would fulfill your original claim.

I didn't ignore the evidence, but essentially implied that it was extremely weak and flimsy evidence, to which you just now admitted. Viewing less weak and flimsy evidence paints a much clearer picture and contradicts your original claims.

My Top 100 list, which I posted above, does support my claim if you would look through it.

The difference between an FPS and a dating sim is that in one the timing and location of your clicks matter

Thank you Captain Obvious. Of course, it's the requiring the precise timing and location of clicks which makes playing FPS well require skill, while it doesn't for dating sims.

My my my, using loaded language while begging the question.

Hey guys the moon is really hot it is hotter than the cold sun.
I like delicious cheese better because beef is disgusting

My bad. I didn't think I would actually need to explain my point that FPS take more skill than RPGs because it's obvious to 99% of people out there. Many RPGs can be reduced to simply clicking X the whole way through and any difficulty you face can simply be overcome by grinding out higher levels. FPS require precision aiming and timing, as you have said, to get the kill.

Just a question, but how many RPGs have you played, how much FPS have you played and what would you say your skill level regarding them is?

I've played numerous RPGs, all the way from Western, MMOs, and JRPs. Bioware games, Fallout, FPSRPGs, DnD, Diablo games, Elder Scroll games, just about all the Final Fantasy games, Dragon Warrior, WoW, SWG, Tabula Rasa, Eve Online, LotRO, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, some Phantasy Star, the Lunar series, played Star Ocean and more that I've probably forgotten about.

My FPS list is much longer and suffice to say that I've played FPS pretty much since Wolfenstien and have touched almost every major FPS that has ever come out with countless other minor ones and mods.

In fact, the most dominate genres I've played over my gaming years have consistently been FPS and RPG, so I do speak with decent knowledge of RPGs and a wealth of knowledge of FPS.

My skill in FPS is high enough to be accused of hacking more times than I can count in numerous online games. Though, I'm not quite as skilled with a controller as I am with a mouse and keyboard.

 

[ProjectileVomit]

whether resident evil is horror or shooter, you still spend the entire game running around and shooting people/things in the face with guns. The reason they accept RE is because it is Japanese. If Resident Evil 4 was designed by valve, they would not buy it. period. It's not about gun culture, it's about automatically dismissing anything non-Japanese.

kinda off topic, but if that's the case, what do you think Silent Hill 5 will fare against the Japanese market,now that it has been handed down to an American developer?

 

[ValveFanboy]

Well Half Life 2 was the best shooter i ever played, had the best story *Spoiler* I cried when eli vance died, i have never cried in any video game before ever.

 

[meisnewbie]

"Fighting games do take skill, but so many times those games come down to who picks the best character, rather than who is the most skillful."

*facepalm*

Ky, Zappa and I think Chipp winning Japanese tournaments would like to have a word with you.

As well as China getting to the finals of one particular IaMP tourney (Rock bottom of tier)

Generally speaking, tiers shouldn't come more into play than skill. At a certain tier level, marginal increases or decreases in skill matter far more than whether they should be a spot higher or lower.

 

[Kedcom]

America is just such a physically huge and diverse place that it's just crazy to throw around the 'typical american' stereotype when there really isn't any such thing.

Well if it's so crazy to throw around 'typical American' stereotypes then why are throwing around sweeping generalisations about Japan? Have you actually BEEN there? I have, I lived there for 3 years and YES it does have problems with racism and ignorance in general, but in a country of 127m people you find that you also meet a lot of extremely cool and friendly people too.

As anyone who has gone to watch a gig by whatever random Western band in Japan will tell you, plenty plenty Japanese people are very interested and into non-Japanese culture. And the vast majority of the crowd don't even understand the lyrics they're listening to, they just dig the sound and the band.

So I'd recommend you go read up on the actual history of Japan (which partly explains some of the reasons for how they are), go to Japan and meet some actual Japanese and have more of an open mind.

If you approach an entire nation with a pre-conceived view that "These guys are assholes" then you're always going to find the faults and not the many positives that exist in all countries.

 

[Zombie_King]

Why is this surprising?
First off, I don't give a damn. They have their games over their and we have ours over here. It's just the simple 'lost in translation' concept. Now I'm going to give you a statement to rationalize the upcoming comparison, so think of it this way:
Comedy is totally relative to location and setting. A lot of western comedy is observations of the things around us. Think about it: our comedy is based in things like our offices, our society, things that are different in Japan. They might not get a joke we think is funny, or vice versa. Now put that in video game terms. The mainstream video market is basically 'Guy in metal (colors consisting of blue, black, brown or any similar color) suit,' 'cool-looking spy' or 'cool-looking rugged man.' They just do things differently over there. Their mainstream is different than ours. We like huge burly men with guns the size of houses and the like bright-colored puzzles.

 

[Brognus]

Personally I hate FPS games, well except the tribes series. Why? because if you've played one 2-d FPS, you've pretty much played them all, they're just so gosh-darn samey for my taste.

(Oh yeah, I hate Cloud too, not because he's some androgynous crazy haired freak, but because the characters in ff7 were terribly shallow and flat.)

 

[John Galt]

Actually I'm quit surprised at how many people outside the US stereotype us, but then again we have some pretty ridiculous stereotypes of ourselves, or has nobody seen the bile that is Family Guy when they move to Texas to save Stewie from being killed by crazed Christians? The world of humor and politics would be a better place if Seth Mcfarlane was hit by a bus.

Not everyone who makes a crack at you needs a bus to the face. Come on, insulting people has been the cornerstone of comedy for years.

Also, many great western games are on the PC, and Japs HATE using the PC for anything beyond porn, email, internet, ect. and even these are now being replaced by an armada of specialized gadgets.

So, when someone makes a negative stereotype about Christians, they deserve to die, whereas it's perfectly fine for you to say that an entire race hates using computers to the degree of Westerners(Don't call me out on the fact that I said it's ok to insult people, your above statement wasn't intended as comedic.)? Double Standard detector is ringing off the hook, sarcasm readings still null.

Now that I've filled my quota of wrongs righted on the web, my personal theory is that it's a cultural thing. Not simply xenophobia, but that their aesthetic ideals differ from Western ones. Sure there could be and most likely are some people who don't play western FPSs due to prejudice, but I think looking at one solution only is a bad idea. How many times in history have we found only one cause for a phenomenon?

 

[meisnewbie]

Got this off of a reliable friend who found information on Famitsu

1. Pokemon Red/Blue/Green - 10M
2. Pokemon Gold/Silver - 7.8M
3. Super Mario Bros - 6.8M
4. Pokemon Diamond/Pearl - 5.4M
5. Pokemon Ruby Sapphire - 5.3M
6. New Super Mario Bros - 5.2M
7. Brain Age 2 - 4.8M
8. Animal Crossing: Wild World - 4.7M
9. Tetris - 4.2M
10. Super Mario Land - 4.2M

4 of one Same Series (Pokemon), 3 of another (Mario) 3 games from entirely different series.

That's 4 "j"RPGs, 3 Platformers, 1 Casual Game. 1 Puzzle game and 1.... uh I guess sim.

Note that all of the top ten sellers all come from Nintendo.

In terms of series diversity America and Japan are equal. In terms of genre diversity, Japan barely surpasses America in having 1 game different in terms of genre. In company diversity America kicks the living hell out of Japan.

So yeah.

It's utterly pointless to postulate that the Japanese are far more homogeneous in taste than America. In terms of the their best sellers Japan and America are nearly identical in terms of diversity save for company, and Nintendo is diverse enough in their games that the point is moot.

No emo protagonists exist in the top ten games in Japan's as far as I know unless you think the nameless protagonist is emo or Mario's cape is used to give himself a vicious rug burn.

Ergo, almost everything stated in this topic in regards to general "gaming trends" is wrong. Japan isn't any better or worse than America in terms of mainstream taste.

Q.E.D.