Suspending the Election

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
People are treating this like a "Boy howdy that goofy old man Trump, how silly of him" rather than a clear and present threat. He should be denied the nomination by default.
But he won't. And this is only the beginning. Wait until he gets the GOP in line with postponing the election.
Oh right, is he even technically the republican nominee yet?
 

Dalisclock

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Clearly, Little Caesar's is too classy. A Pizza Hut would be more appropriate

(I actually have no idea about Little Caesers. Just assuming its better than Pizza Hut.)
Depending on your viewpoint, it's either
1.) I've given up on life and don't care anymore
2.) I'm hungry for Pizza right now and can't wait for deliverly/pickup/oven baked
3.) Fine.

My wife is in camp #1. I'm in camp #2 with a toe in camp #3. But I have better options available nearby, plus we've been making our own homemade pizza(rolling out the dough is the most annoying bit) on a regular basis the last few months so it's not a big deal regardless
 
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SupahEwok

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People are treating this like a "Boy howdy that goofy old man Trump, how silly of him" rather than a clear and present threat. He should be denied the nomination by default.
But he won't. And this is only the beginning. Wait until he gets the GOP in line with postponing the election.
He won't. Postponing the election is a direct threat to the interests of the party. It's not just the president that gets votes for, it's the entire House of Representatives and a third of the Senate, among other local and state offices depending on the jurisdiction. There's a reason that all Republican law makers, when asked for comment, immediately answered a flat "no." One of them even laughed at the idea.
 

tstorm823

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You live in Ohio? Even then, I would not take 10 hours to cross the state to grab some pizza. If that's what you wish you, do you what you want.
Pennsylvania. Just assume I was speeding through Ohio trying to get in and out as fast as humanly possible.

Ohio is the boringest state, not particularly close.
 

Buyetyen

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I have no doubt in my mind that Trump will try everything up to and including offering pardons for any of his supporters who go on a rampage in service of keeping him in office. But actually delaying the election? That's a tall order, even for him. Leaving aside that only Congress has that power, all the blue states would have to do is cite the Constitution and say, "Fuck you, we're having the election when it says." If even 1 blue state is the only state to defy Trump, then the election still happens. The red states would essentially have the option of volunteering their populations to sit out the 2020 elections or just having the damn elections.

There's another factor though that convinces me that Trump will be a one-term president: the recent record-setting GDP drop. He fucked with the bottom line. The donor class are going to be pissed. That they're going to donate to Biden is auto-asphyxiatingly maddening, but it still means we won't be in immediate danger of becoming the United States of Mar-a-Lago, notorious banana republic.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I have no doubt in my mind that Trump will try everything up to and including offering pardons for any of his supporters who go on a rampage in service of keeping him in office. But actually delaying the election? That's a tall order, even for him. Leaving aside that only Congress has that power, all the blue states would have to do is cite the Constitution and say, "Fuck you, we're having the election when it says." If even 1 blue state is the only state to defy Trump, then the election still happens. The red states would essentially have the option of volunteering their populations to sit out the 2020 elections or just having the damn elections.

There's another factor though that convinces me that Trump will be a one-term president: the recent record-setting GDP drop. He fucked with the bottom line. The donor class are going to be pissed. That they're going to donate to Biden is auto-asphyxiatingly maddening, but it still means we won't be in immediate danger of becoming the United States of Mar-a-Lago, notorious banana republic.
We are already seeing that with the Lincoln project. This is all the more reason for progressives to not only vote for Biden but be vocally for Biden, we have to make sure he knows we voted for him so that he will further the causes we want. One of the worse outcomes for progressives is if it sounds like we aren't voting for Biden and he wins anyway cause it just means that we can be ignored and don't matter.
 
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Aegix Drakan

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One of the worse outcomes for progressives is if it sounds like we aren't voting for Biden and he wins anyway cause it just means that we can be ignored and don't matter.
This is, unfortunately, rather naive.

Progressive policies ALSO fuck with the bottom line. So the Democratic Party Elite won't ever do more than a tentative half-step in the right direction and then compromise on that half-step, no matter how far away from the right direction the country has gone since the last election.

They already have written off progressives as a result.

Anytime the dems win, it's "despite" those "nasty" progressives trying to make them unelectable and "scare away moderate republicans!"

Anytime the dems lose, it's "all the fault of those sexist bernie bros for deliberately throwing the election, even if the numbers don't line up with that theory!"

The only way progressive policies get passed is if enough progressives get into congress that the Dem Elites are FORCED to compromise.

If progressives fall in line, they go "Of course! Where ELSE were you going to go, see, we can clearly ignore your demands since you'll just fall in line anyway". If they don't fall in line "Oh, progressives were never gettable and they're also the reason we have trump. Blame them for everything"!

Power just does not want to be challenged.

...Personally, I lean more on the "at least perform damage mitigation" side of the fence, especially with the pandemic and open facism going on, but I can't super blame people for just checking out because "it's all hopeless, fuck everything". Overall, we just need to realize that this is a fight we'll be having for decades to come, and there are no easy solutions or ways to make the rich and powerful bend.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
This is, unfortunately, rather naive.

Progressive policies ALSO fuck with the bottom line. So the Democratic Party Elite won't ever do more than a tentative half-step in the right direction and then compromise on that half-step, no matter how far away from the right direction the country has gone since the last election.

They already have written off progressives as a result.

Anytime the dems win, it's "despite" those "nasty" progressives trying to make them unelectable and "scare away moderate republicans!"

Anytime the dems lose, it's "all the fault of those sexist bernie bros for deliberately throwing the election, even if the numbers don't line up with that theory!"

The only way progressive policies get passed is if enough progressives get into congress that the Dem Elites are FORCED to compromise.

If progressives fall in line, they go "Of course! Where ELSE were you going to go, see, we can clearly ignore your demands since you'll just fall in line anyway". If they don't fall in line "Oh, progressives were never gettable and they're also the reason we have trump. Blame them for everything"!

Power just does not want to be challenged.

...Personally, I lean more on the "at least perform damage mitigation" side of the fence, especially with the pandemic and open facism going on, but I can't super blame people for just checking out because "it's all hopeless, fuck everything". Overall, we just need to realize that this is a fight we'll be having for decades to come, and there are no easy solutions or ways to make the rich and powerful bend.
You have a rather naive and also cynical view of things. If you want change you vote for that change. If you candidate doesn't get in, then you go to the person that did win and you tell them that you still supported them and this is what you want out of it. You make them at least think you are a big part of why they won and you don't let them forget what you want out of them. You won't get everything you want but welcome to democracy, the tagline is 'you wont get everything.' This is why lobbying is effective, because the lobbyists will bug their candidate over and over about what they are lobbying for and remind them of it.

Those Berniebros certainly didn't help but the electoral college helps much less since the last 2 times we ended up with a republican, it came down to it and the democrats still won the popular vote while losing the election.
 
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MrCalavera

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You have a rather naive and also cynical view of things. If you want change you vote for that change. If you candidate doesn't get in, then you go to the person that did win and you tell them that you still supported them and this is what you want out of it. You make them at least think you are a big part of why they won and you don't let them forget what you want out of them. You won't get everything you want but welcome to democracy, the tagline is 'you wont get everything.' This is why lobbying is effective, because the lobbyists will bug their candidate over and over about what they are lobbying for and remind them of it.

Those Berniebros certainly didn't help but the electoral college helps much less since the last 2 times we ended up with a republican, it came down to it and the democrats still won the popular vote while losing the election.
Those lobbyists have MONEY(and connections).

That's one. Two: Does the democratic platform include call for abolishment of the Electoral College?
 

Trunkage

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We are already seeing that with the Lincoln project. This is all the more reason for progressives to not only vote for Biden but be vocally for Biden, we have to make sure he knows we voted for him so that he will further the causes we want. One of the worse outcomes for progressives is if it sounds like we aren't voting for Biden and he wins anyway cause it just means that we can be ignored and don't matter.
What did Chuck Schumer say about the Lincoln Project? Something like "for everyone blue collar lefty in PA, we'll get 3 white republicans." You are already ignored.
 

Tireseas

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Probably. The question is: is he still cognitively able to absorb that information?
I think this was a misquote...
This is not the first time he said it. Also, I have no faith that congress wont just curl over and take it. They haven't shown any desire to stop him before. None of this is new, he's been saying this for a while. And I said similar things back then. He's also stated that he wont be leaving next year nor has he done the basic thing of saying he'll follow the election results.
Again, The president and executive branch has virtually no power over the election process, so it's more than just the Congress doing nothing when he does something bad, it's that they actually would have to do something to do what he asks to modify the law in question.

Now, could he try to meddle by pressuring individual states? Sure, but the states that would most likely relent are also red states, and it would essentially create a situation where half the states voted, half didn't, and the half that did were largely democratic, which would likely mean an EC college victory for Democrats (and probably also a full blown insurrection for even the situation happening in the first place) and almost certainly a Democratic Congress.

And if he just didn't accept the results of the election? Well, he doesn't have to. Once he loses, on January 20 at noon, power will transfer and he'll no longer be president. He can barricade himself in the White House and surround him with the most suicidally loyal CBP and ICE agents and hunker down and, more likely than not, the Executive Office of the President (the official entity of the White House governing staff) would likely just relocate (likely to Foggy Bottom AKA the State Department) until he was removed by force or by his own volition. Only a small chunk of Congressional GOP are likely willing to drive off the cliff with him (and virtually no Senators), so he'll just be a surprisingly small man despite being over 6 feet tall.
 

Tireseas

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(Goddess, I hate these character limits)
They already have written off progressives as a result.
Which is true unless you look at what they are doing now. Progressives, particularly the Sanders camp and Progressives in Congress, essentially wrote massive chunks of Biden's expected platform. They didn't get everything, but they got a lot, including movement on healthcare, and the chairs of these task forces are often prominent progressives such as Rep. Ocasio-Cortez and Rep. Jayapal. Much of his current stances on policy are shifting leftward. He's not giving Progressives everything they want, but he's giving them more than just what he promised during the Primary, and the presence of prominent congressional progressives signals that bills actually getting these things moving are likely already in the process of being debated and bargained inside the current congressional Democratic Caucus where much of this policy is going to need to originate. Democratic Senators, as well as Biden himself, are no longer in reflexive opposition to the filibuster, and may even get rid of it if they are able to get a majority in order to pass legislation.

Progressives lost the nomination battle, but we're winning the policy battle within the Democratic party despite your protestations. Things I never thought could be made law are potentially in sight of just that. The only thing that stands in our way right now is a Republican President and a Republican Senate, so if you want to even conceive of those policies as possible, you're going to need to step up and fight for Joe Biden, fight for a Democratic House and Senate (and a more progressive one if you're in one of the remaining states with congressional primaries) and get ready to lobby the fuck out of your elected officials once their terms start, because Elections are the beginning of the policy fight, not the end.
 

Tireseas

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What did Chuck Schumer say about the Lincoln Project? Something like "for everyone blue collar lefty in PA, we'll get 3 white republicans." You are already ignored.
Which is why Progressives need to stop fighting against the Biden camp and start fighting for it. If Biden thinks the Lincoln Project and Republicans Against Donald Trump deliver him the White House and Senate, his presidency is going to reflect that. Progressives need to stop griping over the small concessions they're making (again, Biden's giving them a lot of reason to vote for him independent of Trump), and get ready to make their support for Biden known and loud.
 

Revnak

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Which is why Progressives need to stop fighting against the Biden camp and start fighting for it. If Biden thinks the Lincoln Project and Republicans Against Donald Trump deliver him the White House and Senate, his presidency is going to reflect that. Progressives need to stop griping over the small concessions they're making (again, Biden's giving them a lot of reason to vote for him independent of Trump), and get ready to make their support for Biden known and loud.
Politics only works that way in the tiny DC and DC adjacent communities you work in. Most actual political strategists rather than members of the DC failson class understand that to get the party closer to you to do what you want you have to be organized and willing to deny them your support if they don’t meet your demands. That is how the Koch’s built the Tea Party, how Reagan took over the Republican Party, etc. Your strategy is the pure idiocy of the dem consultant class that has been invented to soothe their consciences as they suck blue dog dick.
 
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Buyetyen

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Progressives lost the nomination battle, but we're winning the policy battle within the Democratic party despite your protestations. Things I never thought could be made law are potentially in sight of just that.
Hell, we've got right wing talking heads like Ben Shapiro lamenting that the coronavirus stimulus bill torpedoes their argument that we can't afford things like universal healthcare and a UBI.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Those lobbyists have MONEY(and connections).

That's one. Two: Does the democratic platform include call for abolishment of the Electoral College?
What did Chuck Schumer say about the Lincoln Project? Something like "for everyone blue collar lefty in PA, we'll get 3 white republicans." You are already ignored.
Then you have to be louder, this is how democracy works. Its about who has the loudest voice and to get the loudest voice, you need numbers and those numbers need to be loud together.
 

Tireseas

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Hell, we've got right wing talking heads like Ben Shapiro lamenting that the coronavirus stimulus bill torpedoes their argument that we can't afford things like universal healthcare and a UBI.
UBI could be one of the greatest things to come out of this crisis, though I still think it's a long shot. I personally favor a UBI high enough to cover everybody's needs ($2-4k a month) along with a baseline medicare for all system with supplemental insurance (which is closer to what many other counties have and could be more easily be built into our system) while eliminating the minimum wage generally. Contrary to how most conservatives believe, work is rarely something that is solely a monetary venture and the dignity of work is kind of overrated, but a job provides a sense of accomplishment overall, and it would be straight up interesting if, in a society where a person didn't need to work for subsistence, what the wage would actually look like if companies had the real option of wages that they could set if there were no people who were in desperation to pay rent or food. How many people will take a $5/hr job which would only adding a small fraction of their income?
 

MrCalavera

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Then you have to be louder, this is how democracy works. Its about who has the loudest voice and to get the loudest voice, you need numbers and those numbers need to be loud together.
Protesters seem pretty loud to me.