Sweden Considering Sexism Labels For Video Games

[MovieBob]

Sweden Considering Sexism Labels For Video Games

Swedish games industry study group may recommend labeling products for levels of sexism, depiction of gender-equality

Sweden has become known as a country committed to gender-equality causes, as seen in the 2012 stir caused when the Swedish affiliate of Toys R Us began advertising using "Bechdel Test." [http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2012/11/29/highlights-from-the-gender-neutral-swedish-toys-r-us-catalogue/]

Now, that same attention is being turned to the games industry. Dataspelsbranchen, a Swedish games industry organization, has been given a 272,000 kronor (roughly $36,672) grant by the state-funded "Innovation Agency" Vinnova to study and create a system that would provide ratings for games released in Sweden indicating the level of sexism and/or whether or not the game promotes gender equality. At this time, Dataspelsbranchen had not yet determined whether they would recommend these labels be applied to retail games in the manner of the ESRB ratings [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/esrb] or as a "stamp of approval" that game publishers could use in their marketing.

Reached for comment as to the potential for a focus on diversity to detract from the creative process of developers by English-language Swedish news outlet The Local, [http://www.thelocal.se/20141113/sweden-mulls-sexist-game-labels] project manager Anton Albiin was quoted as stating:


"Of course games can be about fantasy but they can be so much more than this. They can also be a form of cultural expression - reflecting society or the society we are hoping for. Games can help us to create more diverse workplaces and can even change the way we think about things."


Dataspelsbranchen (which is an association of the Swedish games industry, not a government agency) will partner with research firm Praxikon [http://www.dataspelsbranschen.se/nyheter/2014/11/13/foerstudie-kring-normkritisk-maerkning.aspx] on their study, which will also include analysis of developers already working to promote diversity and gender-equality in order to help others learn from their experience.


Source: The Local [http://www.thelocal.se/20141113/sweden-mulls-sexist-game-labels]

Permalink

 

[Vault101]

oh man...I heard a million voices cry out in indignation

I think it was the internet

 

[Belaam]

oh man...I heard a million voices cry out in indignation

I think it was the internet

I think you overestimate the number of voices. Or at least, I hope you do.

But I do expect a fresh wave of "See! The feminazis are banning our games!" from people who don't understand what a ban is.

 

[Nocturnus]

I wonder if that organization will also label sexist depictions of men in games...

 

[Kopikatsu]

I wonder if that organization will also label sexist depictions of men in games...

There is no such thing. There are only power fantasies and deliberate parodies.

 

[Erttheking]

Didn't take very long for people to jump on the "what about men" train did it.

As a man, I wish the issues my gender faces would be more than something brought up with the sole purpose of shutting people up.

 

[Scars Unseen]

I think the quoted text is nice because it indicates a desire for an additive rather than transformative change. More games with social equality, not all games.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Didn't take very long for people to jump on the "what about men" train did it.

As a man, I wish the issues my gender faces would be more than something brought up with the sole purpose of shutting people up.

No idea what you're talking about. Nocturnus asked if the same organization would be doing the same for male characters (You know, equality).

Every other comment amounts to 'Just wait until the men start complaining about how oppressed they are!'.

 

[Erttheking]

Didn't take very long for people to jump on the "what about men" train did it.

As a man, I wish the issues my gender faces would be more than something brought up with the sole purpose of shutting people up.

No idea what you're talking about. Nocturnus asked if the same organization would be doing the same for male characters (You know, equality).

Every other comment amounts to 'Just wait until the men start complaining about how oppressed they are!'.

I find that your quote about "There is no such thing" about male sexism to be one that is loaded with sarcasm and tells a lot about the way you view the situation, Basically saying no one cares about male sexism, which is pretty much "what about the men?" And if that was really his question, you didn't provide a clear answer.

A practice that I have seen frequently used by people talking about how SJWs are going to complain about X. The Human race kind of sucks like that.

And to be frank, you're doing little to prove them wrong.'

EDIT: And already the comments are shifting balance.

 

[Karadalis]

Didn't take very long for people to jump on the "what about men" train did it.

As a man, I wish the issues my gender faces would be more than something brought up with the sole purpose of shutting people up.

Didnt took long for you to show up and make passive agressive remarks about people who dont share your opinion now did it?

See i can do this stuff too!

Fact is they are overdoing it. The Bechdel test? Really? You could make the most sexist garbage movie and it could still pass the bechdel test... thats how bad that thing is.

OT:

Video games can be so much more? Sure they "can" but they dont "have to".

Take the movie industry for example:

Look praise all your artsy movies all day long but if you look at the sales numbers you will see that Lord of the rings and Michael bays usual summber bloclbuster simply sell millions upon millions too.

Meanwhile the art movie branch is nothing but an echo chamber where so called artists can pat each other on the shoulder while having no real idea what makes a good movie good.

Kinda like most so called wine experts that cant really differentiate between a super market bought 5 dollar wine and a bottle thats aparantly worth severl thousand dollars aslong as you hide the labels from them. Same thing goes for these artsy movies and in turn to artsy "games".

Really the only good game i have seen in that category was journey.. because it understood that at the base of everything a game is still a GAME. It needs to be played or else it stops being a game and becomes pretentious BS.

Anyways this "sexism" label... people said that SJWs have no real power... well good for them that they dont live in sweden then eh? They try to be so progressive they are going backwards. Wonder when the first white CIS male witchhunts will begin. If youre not atleast bi- or metrosexual its your balls on a silverplatter nowadays it seems.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Didn't take very long for people to jump on the "what about men" train did it.

As a man, I wish the issues my gender faces would be more than something brought up with the sole purpose of shutting people up.

No idea what you're talking about. Nocturnus asked if the same organization would be doing the same for male characters (You know, equality).

Every other comment amounts to 'Just wait until the men start complaining about how oppressed they are!'.

I find that your quote about "There is no such thing" about male sexism to be one that is loaded with sarcasm and tells a lot about the way you view the situation, Basically saying no one cares about male sexism, which is pretty much "what about the men?" And if that was really his question, you didn't provide a clear answer.

A practice that I have seen frequently used by people talking about how SJWs are going to complain about X. The Human race kind of sucks like that.

And to be frank, you're doing little to prove them wrong.

Every response I've ever seen to the question 'Is this character sexist in regards to men?' is 'No, that's a power fantasy, totally different.' Especially in regard to characters like Kratos or Marcus Fenix. The topic comes up time and time again on these forums alone, and that's always the majority of the comments.

 

[Erttheking]

Didn't take very long for people to jump on the "what about men" train did it.

As a man, I wish the issues my gender faces would be more than something brought up with the sole purpose of shutting people up.

No idea what you're talking about. Nocturnus asked if the same organization would be doing the same for male characters (You know, equality).

Every other comment amounts to 'Just wait until the men start complaining about how oppressed they are!'.

I find that your quote about "There is no such thing" about male sexism to be one that is loaded with sarcasm and tells a lot about the way you view the situation, Basically saying no one cares about male sexism, which is pretty much "what about the men?" And if that was really his question, you didn't provide a clear answer.

A practice that I have seen frequently used by people talking about how SJWs are going to complain about X. The Human race kind of sucks like that.

And to be frank, you're doing little to prove them wrong.

Every response I've ever seen to the question 'Is this character sexist in regards to men?' is 'No, that's a power fantasy, totally different.' Especially in regards to characters like Kratos or Marcus Fenix. The topic comes up time and time again on these forums alone, and that's always the majority of the comments.

Ok first of all, that wasn't a proper response to my post in anyway. Second of all, please tell me how Kratos and Marcus Fenix are sexist against men. And don't say it's because their sexualized because let me tell you,

Spoiler

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130301224725/gearsofwar/images/9/99/MarcusGearsofWar3.jpg

no one made this character, stepped back and said "Yeah, he's damn sexy." He's ugly as fuck, he's a deformed slap of meat, and he's as charismatic as a corpse. He was not made with the concept of making people wanting to screw him in mind. It takes more than exposed skin to be a sex fantasy. This female character isn't wearing a shirt.

http://i.imgur.com/bT86m3z.jpg

She isn't sexualized. It's a power fantasy. It's all about the way that they hold themselves and act.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Ok first of all, that wasn't a proper response to my post in anyway. Second of all, please tell me how Kratos and Marcus Fenix are sexist against men. And don't say it's because their sexualized because let me tell you,

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130301224725/gearsofwar/images/9/99/MarcusGearsofWar3.jpg

no one made this character, stepped back and said "Yeah, he's damn sexy." He's ugly as fuck. It takes more than exposed skin to be a sex fantasy. This female character isn't wearing a shirt.

http://i.imgur.com/bT86m3z.jpg

She isn't sexualized. It's a power fantasy. It's all about the way that they hold themselves and act.

That you think something has to be sexualized for it to be sexist is a personal problem. I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[Erttheking]

Ok first of all, that wasn't a proper response to my post in anyway. Second of all, please tell me how Kratos and Marcus Fenix are sexist against men. And don't say it's because their sexualized because let me tell you,

no one made this character, stepped back and said "Yeah, he's damn sexy." He's ugly as fuck. It takes more than exposed skin to be a sex fantasy. This female character isn't wearing a shirt.

http://i.imgur.com/bT86m3z.jpg

She isn't sexualized. It's a power fantasy. It's all about the way that they hold themselves and act.

That you think something has to be sexualized for it to be sexist is a personal problem. That's really all there is to say on the subject. I don't know what else to tell you.

I brought out the sexualization argument because I see it every god damn time this argument comes up, because so many people are convinced Kratos was designed to be arm candy. I know a character doesn't need to be sexualized to be sexist, I didn't say that and don't insult my intelligence like that.

Well what makes them sexist then?

 

[Siege_TF]

Not particularly surprised, a lot of old world countries have a reputation for being somewhat eunuch. Case in point; Fance and Sweden both place more authority for paternity tests on the mothers. How much and in what ways? I'm not your search engine.

 

[Inglorious891]

Welp, this can only go well.

No sir-ree, I can't think of any reasons why this would go poorly.

I mean, it's not like whether or not a particular trope/character/etc. is or isn't sexist isn't in the eye of the beholder, and very much so up for debate. Nope, not at all.

I get wanting to make progress with the whole, "social equality" thing, but slapping certain games with a THIS IS SEXIST/THIS IS NOT SEXIST label is just silly and pointless. Hell, if anything it'll just slow down conversations about gender equality in gaming as it's going to have to define games as being problematic or not being problematic, which is just going to quiet discussion on the issue.

And $36k seems like a pretty small amount of money. I realize this group isn't exactly curing world hunger, but it doesn't even seem enough to pay the salaries of those working on these regulations.

Bah, nothing'll come of this anyway. I know Sweden is crazy with gender equality, but they wouldn't go this far and do something this stupid in that pursuit, right?

 

[Smiley Face]

I actually think this is a pretty good idea that in practice could leave both sides of the argument with little to complain about. Having it labelled on the game doesn't prevent you from buying the game, so the people who don't mind or who actively enjoy the sort of content this affects can have their game same as ever - rather than pushing to change the content of the game, this would just declare that it's the sort of game that has stuff like that - if anything, it somewhat legitimizes it as an artistic choice to have it there next to violence and drug use, other bad things which some people nevertheless enjoy in their games.

Meanwhile, on the side of the people who have a problem with these sorts of games, it makes it easy to avoid games which have objectionable content, and it draws attention to the issue on a large scale - if there's a lot of games getting this rating, that's a valuable statistic and an easy to find red flag, developers may become more aware of it as an issue in their games if they have to consider whether they want their game to have this rating. More awareness of an issue like this is a good thing.

The main problem with this is if the ratings agency becomes overzealous in assigning a new rating like this. Stuff that's borderline, hard to make out, should probably be given the benefit of the doubt because it's not going to read the same to everyone. I think if they can get specific, hard guidelines into place, it could probably work well.

Ok first of all, that wasn't a proper response to my post in anyway. Second of all, please tell me how Kratos and Marcus Fenix are sexist against men. And don't say it's because their sexualized because let me tell you,

no one made this character, stepped back and said "Yeah, he's damn sexy." He's ugly as fuck. It takes more than exposed skin to be a sex fantasy. This female character isn't wearing a shirt.

http://i.imgur.com/bT86m3z.jpg

She isn't sexualized. It's a power fantasy. It's all about the way that they hold themselves and act.

That you think something has to be sexualized for it to be sexist is a personal problem. That's really all there is to say on the subject. I don't know what else to tell you.

So in other words you're not going to explain to me why you think Marcus Fenix is sexist then? I brought out the sexualization argument because I see it every god damn time this argument comes up, because so many people are convinced Kratos was designed to be arm candy. I know a character doesn't need to be sexualized to be sexist, I didn't say that and don't insult my intelligence like that.

Well what makes them sexist then?

He's making the argument that they're sexist (at least I think he is, I could be wrong) because they're creating characters that are basically walking negative stereotypes where their gender, in this case male, is an integral part of that stereotype. Something doesn't have to be sexualized to be sexist; the dumb blonde stereotype, or the "women should be in the kitchen" stereotype are sexist because they're negative gender stereotypes, with nothing inherently sexual about them. Conversely, some might see the "big dumb ultraviolent musclebrained supersoldier" thing as a negative male stereotype, again, no sexuality involved.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Gee, I'm sure people will only react to this news with polite civility... /sarcasm.

When I first heard of the idea I thought it was going to be a government rating, and given the problems we've had here in Australia it sounded like a terrible plan. BUT, an ESRB style rating sounds pretty good, let the developers come on board themselves. Maybe not such a bad idea after all, Sweden.

That said, I wonder what the criteria for 'promoting gender equality' would be. Do they actually want it to be 'promoted' or just reflected? Big difference.